Naked fanatics

[blado]

I was in a battle with the barbarians, me being the Romani. I had just finished destroying their army and they had 120 naked fanatics left. I sent my army to take care of them and they all routed, the naked fanatixs loosing only one man. What is up with that? They don't even have any armor. Is there a mod to reduces their power because I don't find this realistic at all, 120 men routing an army of over 2000.

[Tristuskhan]

Well, now you know you have to be cautious when you see some of them. Dunno if there is a mod but I know you can go along with them.

Something more: it seems that you hate them so far. Hire some naked mercenaries and you'll soon think their buttocks are the most beautiful thing in the game.

[Juvenal]

Gaesatae rightly put the fear of God(s) into the Romani. Only send high morale troops against them in melee and keep the ones facing their front in guard mode.

However, Gaesatae do make good pincushions - make sure you throw plenty of pointy sticks at them. They don't like cavalry either, so if you have any, try charging then up the butt while they are engaged with your cannon-fodder from the front.

[Stone and Blood]

They were realy strong, fearless warriors, but anyway, you must be playing with the very hard battle dificulty, wich increases a lot the stats and morale of your enemies.
Put camaping very hard, and battle medium dificulty, or challenge these monsters :).

[Seyduna]

At which difficulty are you playing? I suppose you are playing on VH difficulty in battles because 120 vs. 2000, as you say, is unrealistic for medium difficulty.
At VH, ai gets +7 attack and defence. In addition, that naked fanatics (Gaesatae) have 2 hit points making them harder to kill and have the ability to frighten nearby infantry.

[blado]

I'm on H/M. I have tried charging calvary but it killed like 2 of their men and than they turned around and slaughtered my calvary. This was near the end of the battle and I was out of spears. I sent triarii and principes to kill them. Most had 100+ men each. They did nothing but kill one like I said. I know they are fearless and all, but you can only go so far being naked...... So it kind of annoys me.

[Mediolanicus]

I went into the EDU and changed their 2HP into 1HP and 40% more defensive points. Now they are still strong as hell², but not as unbeatable as before.
(if you do this, don't forget do give their Galatian counter-parts the same treatment.)

[blado]

Where can I find that?

[TWFanatic]

Personally, I find them overrated (they drop like flies under missile fire to the rear), but it is odd that naked men have 2 hitpoints and 5 armor. I reduced their armor from 5 to 3 in my personal game and my mod (see unofficial mods section). It's easy to do.

[blado]

I might try that out in another campaign, but for now I just want to reduce the naked fanatic's overpoweredness.

[Watchman]

I've killed stacks of several rebel Gaesatae with nothing more than a few cruddy units of Sotaroas, a Gallic family member or two, and probably like one Leuce Epos. Or, out in Galatia, a bunch of those shortsword guys plus one Pontic FamiCav - and these were both in the old versions.

The OP must have been doing something wrong.

Off the top of my head I can think that to include "tired and depleted units" and "not enough missiles" - he former in particular which pretty much reads as "rout me" with the Nekkid Men. Fatigue and casualties lower an unit's morale (plus fatigue hurts combat performance), and the easily most cost-effective and convenient way to chip off the naked guys' HP buffer is to subject them to some intense ranged bombardement - they're a lot harder to hurt in melee, due to their very high defense skill.

Personally, I find them overrated (they drop like flies under missile fire to the rear), but it is odd that naked men have 2 hitpoints and 5 armor. I reduced their armor from 5 to 3 in my personal game and my mod (see unofficial mods section). It's easy to do.

They've got armour 5 for around the exact same reason those northern longswordmen do, you know. The helmets - and in the case of the longswordmen, shirt - really do add up to that much (although Celtic and German troops without actual body armour also categorically get a bonus point for being big tough blokes).

[Tellos Athenaios]

Boy, I wish the Aedui would send me some Naked Fanatics to play games with, rather than those awfully unmannered Soldiers they prefer to waste in front of my beautiful Oppidum.

[konny]

Yes, save for the Gaesatae, most of those the Arverni and Aedui throw on me can't really pass for an army. Those endless lines of Lugoae usually break and run on first contact, taking the neighbouring units with them and after a really short fight the entire (former) pride of Gaul makes a footrace with all kinds of Eqvites for the edge of the map.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Yes, save for the Gaesatae, most of those the Arverni and Aedui throw on me can't really pass for an army. Those endless lines of Lugoae usually break and run on first contact, taking the neighbouring units with them and after a really short fight the entire (former) pride of Gaul makes a footrace with all kinds of Eqvites for the edge of the map.

That was not what I meant, tbh. The Aedui haven't been nice to me, thrice in a row and the third time they meant business... but failed miserably due to abused AI confusement.

[NeoSpartan]

I've killed stacks of several rebel Gaesatae with nothing more than a few cruddy units of Sotaroas, a Gallic family member or two, and probably like one Leuce Epos. Or, out in Galatia, a bunch of those shortsword guys plus one Pontic FamiCav - and these were both in the old versions.

The OP must have been doing something wrong.

Off the top of my head I can think that to include "tired and depleted units" and "not enough missiles" - he former in particular which pretty much reads as "rout me" with the Nekkid Men. Fatigue and casualties lower an unit's morale (plus fatigue hurts combat performance), and the easily most cost-effective and convenient way to chip off the naked guys' HP buffer is to subject them to some intense ranged bombardement - they're a lot harder to hurt in melee, due to their very high defense skill.

....

this post bear repeating,

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I hate Gaesatae!!! Especially when they have experience lvl 8! I said 8!

Guess what happened to me. I fought the Arverni. They had only one settlement left. I positioned my army of Brihentin, Equites Romani, Sacred Band Cavalry, Punic Infantry, Ligurian infantry and even Neitos on a hill and thought of a quick win. What a mistake! Those experience lvl 8, yes 8, Gaesatae just chewed my troops like they were nothing. I played about 90 minutes in this battle, mainly because the enemy had a bug or something and so they didn't move any more after a certain point. Five of their units just stood their ground doing nothing. That was my luck I think, the reason why at least a 30% of my soldiers escaped the scene with nothing but their bare lives... One Gaesatae unit, together with another unit Gaelaiche, was confronted with three units Gaemile Liguriae (ok that's nothing awe inspiring), two units Liby-Phoenician infantry, two units Libyan infantry, one unit Neitos and got charged with two Alae Equites Romani. The Carthaginians lost each about hundred men, the Equites more than 90%, and the rest I really didn't count... 120 Gaesatae took out more than 600, probably about 800. That's not fair! They were completely surrounded and no way to escape.

There was also a unit of lvl 8 Uirodusios. Yeah again the naked! But the cheap ones. 80 men of the Sacred Band cavalry, 80 Brihentin, 40 Liby-Phoenician cavalrymen I lost to them till they got routed (when there were only 5 men left). Heavily experienced units are just ridicoulus.

[Spartan198]

I agree completely. Those Naked Fanatics are deadly. I've had even Spartan phalanxes literally cut to pieces by these guys. That's where archers and fire arrows come in handy,heh heh heh....

[The General]

I hate Gaesatae!!! Especially when they have experience lvl 8! I said 8!

Guess what happened to me. I fought the Arverni. They had only one settlement left. I positioned my army of Brihentin, Equites Romani, Sacred Band Cavalry, Punic Infantry, Ligurian infantry and even Neitos on a hill and thought of a quick win. What a mistake! Those experience lvl 8, yes 8, Gaesatae just chewed my troops like they were nothing. I played about 90 minutes in this battle, mainly because the enemy had a bug or something and so they didn't move any more after a certain point. Five of their units just stood their ground doing nothing. That was my luck I think, the reason why at least a 30% of my soldiers escaped the scene with nothing but their bare lives... One Gaesatae unit, together with another unit Gaelaiche, was confronted with three units Gaemile Liguriae (ok that's nothing awe inspiring), two units Liby-Phoenician infantry, two units Libyan infantry, one unit Neitos and got charged with two Alae Equites Romani. The Carthaginians lost each about hundred men, the Equites more than 90%, and the rest I really didn't count... 120 Gaesatae took out more than 600, probably about 800. That's not fair! They were completely surrounded and no way to escape.

There was also a unit of lvl 8 Uirodusios. Yeah again the naked! But the cheap ones. 80 men of the Sacred Band cavalry, 80 Brihentin, 40 Liby-Phoenician cavalrymen I lost to them till they got routed (when there were only 5 men left). Heavily experienced units are just ridicoulus.

Indeed.

[bovi]

my army of Brihentin, Equites Romani, Sacred Band Cavalry, Punic Infantry, Ligurian infantry and even Neitos

I spot a serious weakness.

[PershsNhpios]

Oh god, I hope he isn't suggesting the Celts are overpowered.

Throw a bag over head and sacrifice him to the historians!

The Gaesatae are nasty, but you never have to meet them in melee.
Just have a detachment of skirmishers ready, and you won't have to argue with 20 pages of registered arguments here.

[Mediolanicus]

Where can I find that?

You are referring to the EDU?

export_descr_unit

In your EB folder - Data (not in one of the maps inside data, but just in the map data itself).

[Rodion Romanovich]

Hm, I never had any trouble with gaesatae, even on vh difficulty... Rain javelins on them from behind, make sure you go at them with well rested troops, avoid line-to-line contact, use superiority in numbers well but don't exaggerate but rather keep some rested reserves to crash into them when they're tired, and keep having your units take turns attacking them. Kill the enemy general before going for them and make sure to rout and kill plenty if not all of the other enemy units before hitting them. Etc etc. They're not really that dangerous when you know how to fight them. I've won plenty of battles with trash armies against enemy armies that had 5 units of them, but I too had problems killing them when they were alone against my 2000 troops armies. It's a fun challenge, to try and learn how to defeat them, and can actually make you risk losing some battles every once in a while, unlike vanilla.

[Andronikos]

I'm on H/M. I have tried charging calvary but it killed like 2 of their men and than they turned around and slaughtered my calvary. This was near the end of the battle and I was out of spears. I sent triarii and principes to kill them. Most had 100+ men each. They did nothing but kill one like I said. I know they are fearless and all, but you can only go so far being naked...... So it kind of annoys me.

You should charge several times, charge, return, charge, return, charge, return... and you will rout them easily Missile unit are a good choice too, is absence of them a weakness you spotted, bovi?

[TWFanatic]

They've got armour 5 for around the exact same reason those northern longswordmen do, you know. The helmets - and in the case of the longswordmen, shirt - really do add up to that much (although Celtic and German troops without actual body armour also categorically get a bonus point for being big tough blokes).

The 2 hitpoints more than make up the bonus they get for being "tough blokes." A helmet and golden torc around the neck aren't exactly heavy armor. Additionally, the Gaesatae were historically vulnerable to missiles. According to Polybius, Roman pila turned them into pincushions at Telamon.

Don't get me wrong, I personally have no trouble countering Gaesatae. I just just find 5 armor a bit high statistically speaking for naked men, even if they do have rock hard abs and buns of steel.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I spot a serious weakness.

Ligurians are not the best, I know. And Equites Romani either. Btw I had two units of Celtic archers, I only forgot to mention. But sadly, Gaesatae are almost immune to arrows. The archers only killed like three of them, I guess it's because of their 2 HP.

[Watchman]

The 2 hitpoints more than make up the bonus they get for being "tough blokes." A helmet and golden torc around the neck aren't exactly heavy armor. Additionally, the Gaesatae were historically vulnerable to missiles. According to Polybius, Roman pila turned them into pincushions at Telamon.

Don't get me wrong, I personally have no trouble countering Gaesatae. I just just find 5 armor a bit high statistically speaking for naked men, even if they do have rock hard abs and buns of steel.

That's got nothing to do with it; the HP bonus is a trait entirely separate from the armour value.

Lemme spell out the math for you. Bare chest (0)+ metal helmet (3)+ cheekpieces (1)+ generic Celtic & German bonus (1)= 5.

For the sake of comparision, Peltastai have Linothorax (4)+ metal helmet (3)+ cheekpieces (1)= 8.

...see how it works now ?

As a side note it wasn't so much the pila of the heavy infantry as the tender attentions of the Velites and their rather larger supply of conventional javelins that did the naked guys in at Telamon. Which rather demonstrates the importance of a skirmish screen, and how seriously unarmoured infantry in particular could suffer without one.

[Torvus]

I generally change their armor bonus to 0 in the file. they are naked, a helmet isn't going to prevent someone from disemboweling you. I don't care what kinda drugs you're on, when your intestines are leaking onto the ground, you are going to die.

[Hooahguy]

That's got nothing to do with it; the HP bonus is a trait entirely separate from the armour value.

Lemme spell out the math for you. Bare chest (0)+ metal helmet (3)+ cheekpieces (1)+ generic Celtic & German bonus (1)= 5.

For the sake of comparision, Peltastai have Linothorax (4)+ metal helmet (3)+ cheekpieces (1)= 8.

...see how it works now ?

what about their shields- that counts for a lot......

[blado]

You guys seem like you aren't have many problems fighting the barbarians. I'm having a terrible time though. I sent a full stack of polybian units with plenty of ranged units this time, and I was promptly slaughtered. They still had 1500 men left at the end of the fight and I 500. I don't get it. My barbarian army is owning the other barbarians, while my Romani army gets slaughtered. I think it is because my barbarian units have archers and Romani have slingers.

[Watchman]

I generally change their armor bonus to 0 in the file. they are naked, a helmet isn't going to prevent someone from disemboweling you. I don't care what kinda drugs you're on, when your intestines are leaking onto the ground, you are going to die.

...so you're going to claim wearing a helmet into battle isn't any better than going bareheaded ?
Bri-i-i-i-lliant. Let's see you get that argument past anyonewho knows the first thing about hand-to-hand combat, like, say, me, or every warrior throughout history who had a helmet as his #2 on the shopping list for defensive gear (#1 normally being shield)... or modern soldiers, for that matter.
I presume you're giving the same treatment to all other units whose worn defenses amount to a helmet of some kind, then, too ?

what about their shields- that counts for a lot......

Separate value, in the case you didn't know. An RTW unit's defensive attributes consist of armour, defense skill and shield, all of which behave differently in different circumstances (eg. defense skill doesn't amount to squat against missiles, shield only helps against attacks from the front and left...).

We're talking about the armour here.