Strategic Help

[konny]

HAHA ya I guess that would be my "Strategic" problem wrong choice of words. Thanks for the help konny.
One other question konny, you said that when the hastati cant hold there own the pricipes take over. Should I withdrawal the hastati then have the pricipes hit the barbarian unit left there?
Or should I engage the pricipes first? Then withdrawal the histati.

I order the Principes to attack the unit the Hastati run in trouble with. Once the Principes make ready to throw Pila, I order that particular unit of Hastati to retreat behind the Triarii duoblequick. They can recover there and, beeing still some 90 men strong, can engage elsewhere later.

[CaesarAugustus]

Generally I find that the checkerboard formation is wasteful and will quickly decimate your Hastati, when fighting an army of equal or greater size. For this reason, I will usually send in the Hastati and Principes at the same time, sometimes withdrawing particular units so the enemy will pursue them through the gaps in the line and be easily flanked. This is especially uselful when fighting the phalanx, but also works with barbarians. Meanwhile, I will have my Triarii (lately I have bben foregoing historical accuracy and making legions with six of each Hastati, Principes and Triarii) engaging cavalry, providing support where my units are weakening, or generally causing havoc and flanking units.

[worlddomination88]

Cool interesting im gonna ask these kinda questions more for more incite.
Thanks everybody!

[Sdragon]

Be sure to make use of guard mode. This will give your Hastati far more staying power. You generaly wont need to pull them back since they get pushed back anyway and end up in line with the Principes. Your Hastati will still need retrainning after a couple of fights though.

[konny]

I would not use Hastati or Principes in guard mode. Their open formation makes them swarm around the flanks even of larger enemy units, like the 240-men Gauls. Units that fight in a very close formation, like Hoplites, they tend to completely envelope after them time of fighting.

(lately I have bben foregoing historical accuracy and making legions with six of each Hastati, Principes and Triarii)

That is only for the Camillan periode. In Polybian time the Triarii should be 1/2 of the Hastati or Principes. In your example: 6-6-3

[ajdeignan]

Hi All,

DON'T adopt the manipular formation INTO combat, it is simply a method of march to arrive at the moment of impact. Otherwise your hastati units will be swallowed by very large units of Gauls and eaten alive. If you play on huge and your units default formnation is 4-men deep, adopt a manipular formation that is 8-men deep, with a gap between units equal to one unit in 8-men depth. Just before the enemy arrive, expand the first line (Hastati) so that they are in 4-men ranks (close all gaps). Think like a phalanx; once Romans are in guard mode in a continuous line, they present are very armoured front. The principes (2nd line) maintain the 8-men depth until they are needed (expand to 4-men depth, then charge once they have expended all pilum). I don't retreat the Hastiti (lose too many men when you 'about face'), I simply move the Principe forward through the Hastati unit until it is in combat. At the same time the Hastati are getting pushed back anyway. It's very rare for me to use the Triarii at all (except to mop up the routers) - as was historical in victorious situations.

To koony;
I prefer to keep my Roman units in guard mode when on the defensive. The roman's have such poor charge bonuses that it's better to remain still and let the enemy crash into you ("hold the line"). In guard mode, my units tire the enemy without losing many of their own. This gives the flankers time to get around the sides. Plus roman units tended to grind the enemy into submission (very little individual impressive swordmanship).

[worlddomination88]

This seams all to be good incite ill try this myself and experiment.
But ya I have the problem with the bigger Gaul units swarming my hastati flanks. Thats kinda how they usually kick the crap out of my hastati.

I had time to use Konnys advice with engaging the hastati and when the priceps are about to throw their pilla id pull back the hastati.It worked really good but I was fighting Carthaginians not barbarians. It was elite African pike men it was cool cause my hastati would tire them out and they would after a few minutes be basically getting there buts kicked and id send in the priceps and they actually
routed elite African pike man with not to many causalities while the remainder of the hastati was resting. And the casualty rat wasn't to bad i cant say exactly thowe cause the hastati wasn't at full strength to start because of a previous battle.

But I had other things working in my advantage to.
I had a pretty good General, they had a captain I icolated the capten with my body guard and calvalry and killed the captain while making a foot race to the top of a hill. They were attacking.

Didn't the Romans do something historically like what ajdeignan was saying were they would make a solid wall before engaging or being engaged?? I think im gunna give this a try tonight.

[Decimus Attius Arbiter]

The manipular formation works fine with half unit width gaps. Hastati with experience chevrons will hold pretty well with low casualties. A Roman Army needs time to train itself up

[konny]

I had time to use Konnys advice with engaging the hastati and when the priceps are about to throw their pilla id pull back the hastati.It worked really good but I was fighting Carthaginians not barbarians.

Elite African Pikemen are by far a stronger foe than anything the Gaulls can field (save may be Gaesatae of the same number). So, when worked in Africa it will very well work in Northern Europe.

But ya I have the problem with the bigger Gaul units swarming my hastati flanks. Thats kinda how they usually kick the crap out of my hastati.

You shouldn't be to strict with your lines: when the enemy's line is longer than yours, rush foreward the two outermost units of Principes to protect your flanks. Even better, when the Gauls are swarming around your flanks and will be attack by units of your second line that will hit them in the flanks.


And do not forgett: Romans usually fought with superior numbers (I do not belive the Roman stories of Barbarian mass armies as soon as the Romans poped up, while the Celts and Germanic fought their own wars with warbands of not more than some thousend men). So, do not fight against serious odds.

[worlddomination88]

Ill keep that in mind thanks. This really helps with my playing I have a good grasp on economy with EB now and stuff I just think a few decisive heroic victory's every so often would help out sometimes. Wer my army is not destroyed even if I win.
For all who responded thanks for my help

But if any body still has more to add or wants say something in responds to sum body feal free still to do so. I wond forget about this thread.