Chavez- at it again

**HoreTore** · 02-11-2008, 20:33

Originally Posted by Ice

Then don't allow them to invest billions in your country and then decide "hmm, I think we'll take all the infrastructure you set up and not let you have any of the oil proceeds that you invested billions in"

Besides, this is Exxon Mobile, a private company, you know... a company not run by the government?

Exxon Mobile is a thoroughly corrupt company, in that they have no reservations for paying off corrupt state officials to get their way.

It's about time they got smacked. It's well deserved.

**Fragony** · 02-11-2008, 20:39

If you are absolutily sure of that Darwin says you are unfit for life. It's not perfect we aren't all from Norway.

**HoreTore** · 02-11-2008, 20:42

Originally Posted by Fragony

If you are absolutily sure of that Darwin says you are unfit for life. It's not perfect we aren't all from Norway.

Norwegian companies(Statoil), are unfortunately no better, and I'm glad they're getting the smack from Chavez too.

**Fragony** · 02-11-2008, 20:50

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Norwegian companies(Statoil), are unfortunately no better, and I'm glad they're getting the smack from Chavez too.

Why? Norway is a great country. At least it hasn't been kinda evil since conquering Brittain.

**JAG** · 02-11-2008, 21:16

Rising oil prices usually do that, JAG. Falling oil prices don't do that. I don't know if you last checked, but the world appears to be heading for a global recession. Not really good news for Chavez.

A global recession which... China is going to be completely immune from - don't believe me, it's the IMF that said it. China's GDP growth is going to be completely unaffected, predicted at 10% growth this year.

It might be brilliant for you to think he won't do it, but he will and he will do it so his country is still strong and continuing down the path of social equality.

Plus, actually some of the selling he has done in the US, has been out of the goodness of his heart - trying to help the poor in the US, doing what the US govt wouldn't even dream of doing.

**Ice** · 02-11-2008, 23:57

Originally Posted by JAG

A global recession which... China is going to be completely immune from - don't believe me, it's the IMF that said it. China's GDP growth is going to be completely unaffected, predicted at 10% growth this year.

What's this got to do with the US refining Venezuelan heavy crude?

What's this have to do with the fact global oil prices will still fall during a recession?

**Ice** · 02-11-2008, 23:58

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Exxon Mobile is a thoroughly corrupt company, in that they have no reservations for paying off corrupt state officials to get their way.

It's about time they got smacked. It's well deserved.

Except they aren't really getting smacked, now are they?

Seems the opposite is happening.

**Tribesman** · 02-12-2008, 00:45

Except they aren't really getting smacked, now are they?

That depends on the outcome of the courtcase , I cannot really see a court finding in their favour since they chose to pull out of the deal , most of the others accepted the deal .
Exxons pull out was more to do with the changes to its tax bill , which it would have a very very hard time pushing through the courts .
So in short Exxons attempts are a rather lame effort at applying pressure .
Now several people have been going on about how it is the US that refines Venezuelas oil , what proportion of those US refineries that process Venezuelas oil are actually owned by Venezuela itself ?

**Xiahou** · 02-12-2008, 01:05

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Now several people have been going on about how it is the US that refines Venezuelas oil , what proportion of those US refineries that process Venezuelas oil are actually owned by Venezuela itself ?

Not many if Exxon wins in court.

Besides, whoever owns them- they're still in the US. Is Hugo going to ship oil to the US to be refined only to load it back onto tankers and ship it all to another country? I think not.

**Tribesman** · 02-12-2008, 01:30

Not many if Exxon wins in court.

Thats a very very big IF

So if they do by some miracle win and sieze refineries set up for the heavy crude what are they gonna do with them ?
Perhaps Exxon can sell them to get the money(large amounts of money) that they owe the American tax payer .

Is Hugo going to ship oil to the US to be refined only to load it back onto tankers and ship it all to another country? I think not.

What you mean like transhipments via refineries sorta like all the oil companies do ?

Hmmmmm...transhipments , there is something in that word that is sorta suggestive of them floating thingies.....errrr...ships perhaps .

Now Venezuela wouldn't have been doing something like a massive increase in its floaty things for carrying oil products would it ?
Tankers I think they is called .

As I said...

He may be an idiot , but he isn't completely stupid , he plans ahead .

So new ports , new terminals , new pipelines , new refineries , new contracts and errr..... new oil tankers .
Do you sorta get the slight impression that he saw this coming ?

**Xiahou** · 02-12-2008, 02:41

Here's some more info .

"For the market this means that the probability of Exxon winning an arbitration against PdVSA is high," said Alberto Ramos, an analyst with Goldman Sachs in New York.

PdVSA claims to produce 3.2 million barrels of crude a day, but the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries and other industry associations put its production closer to 2.4 million barrels a day.

PdVSA officials claim the company is on track to raise production, but its latest moves appear to reflect concern about its production capacity.

In recent days PdVSA has struck new agreements with Total, Statoil and Royal Dutch Shell PLC (RDSA) in a bid to expand production in mature fields across the country. Still, PdVSA has problems with aging oil infrastructure, and continues to struggle to secure needed oil rigs.

Yup, sounds like they're in great shape.

And you've got to love Chavez's response:

"Exxon Mobil is an imperialist bandit," Chavez said Sunday during his radio and television show. "If (Exxon) really freezes us...if you hurt us...We won't send any oil to the United States."

Yes, that's right- he's taking the spoiled brat approach- threatening to take his ball and go home.

Too bad for him that he can't make good on the threat:

Few believe the president will cut off the Andean country's main business partner, especially since most of the refineries outside Venezuela capable of processing its extra-heavy crude are located on U.S. soil.

Tribes may believe that Chavez is going to ship his crude to the US for it to be refined, load it back onto tankers, ship it back to South America, pump it across pipelines, load it back onto tankers, and ship it to Asia- but most people (including those who actually know the industry) realize that's completely unworkable.

**Beirut** · 02-12-2008, 03:15

Even if China and India need to build new plants to process Venezuela`s oil, Hugo can offset their costs by selling them oil at less than market price, still pull in a tidy profit, and maybe trade some (lots of) oil for weapons.

If Hugo has a steady stream of Chinese flag supertankers in port under a fifty-year contract, and a whack of new fighters and SAMs parked at Chavez International, he`s going to be the new Castro and his administration could well last past several US presidents. Latin and South America might see this guy as Che incarnate, fostering strong and defiant anti-US sentiment across the south, and the US might not want to bomb or invade a country full of Chinese engineers (and military advisors) at the same time as they owe China their first born in past due interest payments. Also, China could say ''You mess with Venezuela and threaten our oil imports and Taipei is going to be a smoking ruin by lunch.''

Even if the physical and monetary outcome of a deal like this was less than intended, even if it tanked completely, it would have a devastating psychological impact on US power in the region.

**ICantSpellDawg** · 02-12-2008, 03:36

Originally Posted by Beirut

Even if China and India need to build new plants to process Venezuela`s oil, Hugo can offset their costs by selling them oil at less than market price, still pull in a tidy profit, and maybe trade some (lots of) oil for weapons.

If Hugo has a steady stream of Chinese flag supertankers in port under a fifty-year contract, and a whack of new fighters and SAMs parked at Chavez International, he`s going to be the new Castro and his administration could well last past several US presidents. Latin and South America might see this guy as Che incarnate, fostering strong and defiant anti-US sentiment across the south, and the US might not want to bomb or invade a country full of Chinese engineers (and military advisors) at the same time as they owe China their first born in past due interest payments. Also, China could say ''You mess with Venezuela and threaten our oil imports and Taipei is going to be a smoking ruin by lunch.''

Even if the physical and monetary outcome of a deal like this was less than intended, even if it tanked completely, it would have a devastating psychological impact on US power in the region.

Right, because the U.S. is just a clipped-wing country full of dancing nancies... oh wait - that's Canada. South of the border, we'll find a way to deal with any threats without totally caving.