Smokers cost the taxpayers less than healthy people

[Sasaki Kojiro]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080205/...etmXJiMsys0NUE

Very interesting study. Turns out healthy people live longer and thus cost the taxpayers more money. One of the big arguments I've heard against drug legalization is that they shouldn't be legalized because of the health care costs. This argument is clearly refuted here for the drugs that cause gradual health problems. Will this help lead to their legalization?

[Lemur]

I doubt it. The prohibition of alcohol and tobacco, much less other drugs, isn't driven by logic. If we were doing the reasonable thing, we certainly wouldn't spend massive sums of money to warehouse and feed first-time non-violent drug users.

It's some sort of ever-present moral panic. I can't claim to understand it. But trust me, if you could conclusively prove that drug users cost our society less than healthy octogenarians, it wouldn't make the slightest bit of policy difference.

[Ice]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080205/...etmXJiMsys0NUE

Very interesting study. Turns out healthy people live longer and thus cost the taxpayers more money. One of the big arguments I've heard against drug legalization is that they shouldn't be legalized because of the health care costs. This argument is clearly refuted here for the drugs that cause gradual health problems. Will this help lead to their legalization?

That's a great argument to legalize something.

Hey it will cost us less money, but kill more people in the process!

No I don't think it will help legalization it at all.

[Proletariat]

I've actually been saying this for ages. Without having read the study yet, I've always known that since I smoke alot, I'm paying alot more in taxes and also taking myself out of the pool who needs healthcare services incredibly quicker than you health freaks.

Just doing my civic duty, no need to thank me

[KukriKhan]

I've actually been saying this for ages. Without having read the study yet, I've always known that since I smoke alot, I'm paying alot more in taxes and also taking myself out of the pool who needs healthcare services incredibly quicker than you health freaks.

Just doing my civic duty, no need to thank me

^^dit- (cough, cough, wheeze, gasp) to!^^

:)

We shell out an incredible sin-tax burden to pay to prevent new smokers, and to finance kidney transplants for you health freaks who forgot to hydrate whilst jogging between salad-munching venues.

And since (through our sintax-paid no-new-smokers efforts) there'll be fewer smokers paying that sin-tax 15 years from now, I fully expect, and have resolved to accept, that when I finally cough up that second lung, the paramedics won't take me to hospital - they'll just stuff the organ back in, slap me on the back, and leave a bill for $2,000 for the house call.

And I'll pour one final Chivas (taxed 3-times it's honest retail), and fire up one final Marlboro (taxed 5 times it's honest retail), confident that I've done my duty for freedom, the living, and the pursuit of happiness.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That's a great argument to legalize something.

Hey it will cost us less money, but kill more people in the process!

No I don't think it will help legalization it at all.

Shouldn't people be allowed to be unhealthy if they want to?

[LittleGrizzly]

I like to pay lots of tax duty to the goverment so if they could maybe extend thier range of legal products I could pay more tax, and take up lessif i get caught, everyones a winner.

[Ice]

Shouldn't people be allowed to be unhealthy if they want to?

I don't like to apply blanket statements.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Shouldn't people be allowed to be unhealthy if they want to?

Ha! Our current society is based on the concept that government is a restrictive parent out to tell us what to do.

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ha! Our current society is based on the concept that government is a restrictive parent out to tell us what to do.

CR

If by current society you mean the republican party

[Crazed Rabbit]

Oh, you mean the dems don't support seat belt laws or smoking restrictions or sin taxes?



CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sigh. Too true.

Although I'm entirely in favor of seat belt laws. It's no bother to wear a seatbelt.

[Xiahou]

Although I'm entirely in favor of seat belt laws. It's no bother to wear a seatbelt.

Shouldn't people be allowed to be unhealthy if they want to?

[Andres]

Dead people cost taxpayers less than living people ...

Let's commit mass suicide! No more taxes, here I come!

[HoreTore]

Shouldn't people be allowed to be unhealthy if they want to?

Well, I wear a seat belt. If I get into a crash with someone who doesn't, his body will be thrown through the front window and into my car, thus killing me when I would've survived if he wore a seat belt.

No, people shouldn't be allowed to kill others.

[Husar]

If you smokers are so eager to die, why shouldn't we just shoot all of you and be done with it? I can already see all the new open jobs, less hunger and poor people in the world, sounds good, doesn't it?

"Live fast, die young(preferably very young)."
"The early smoker gets the bullet."

[Ironside]

Dead people cost taxpayers less than living people ...

Let's commit mass suicide! No more taxes, here I come!

Psh, if you're in good health and working then you're not allowed to suecide. That's only allowed if you're sick or going into pension.

[Andres]

Psh, if you're in good health and working then you're not allowed to suecide. That's only allowed if you're sick or going into pension.

Why are you against freedom?

[Mooks]

Well, I wear a seat belt. If I get into a crash with someone who doesn't, his body will be thrown through the front window and into my car, thus killing me when I would've survived if he wore a seat belt.

No, people shouldn't be allowed to kill others.

Is that what you really tell yourself? I want to see some studies to prove that's possible, cough them up.

[Ser Clegane]

It should be noted that the study only focuses on one aspect of the whole aspect of costs.
The economic effects of higher numbers of sick days were not taken into account.

Fourth, it is important to stress that we have focused solely on health-care costs related to smoking and obesity, ignoring broader cost categories and consequences of these risk factors to society. It is likely, however, that these impacts will be substantial. For instance, reduced morbidity in people of working age may improve productivity and thus result in sizeable productivity gains in society (e.g., [44]). In the case of smoking and obesity, these indirect costs could well be higher than the direct medical costs [8,18]. Moreover, from a societal perspective, other potentially substantial costs and consequences need to be considered, such as those related to informal care, the damage due to fires caused by smoking, or the reduced well-being of family members due to morbidity and premature death. These different cost categories emphasize the influence the perspective taken in economic analyses has on the conclusions. From a welfare economic perspective the societal perspective is, in fact, the most relevant [45], although in practice many evaluations take a narrower perspective, which more closely conforms to the perspective most relevant to the decision-maker they are trying to inform [46].

study

[Meneldil]

Shouldn't people be allowed to be unhealthy if they want to?

Yeah of course.

Should they be allowed to piss the hell out of me because the're drunk or are smoking near me ? Hell no.

[Viking]

Yeah of course.

Should they be allowed to piss the hell out of me because the're drunk or are smoking near me ? Hell no.

Of course the difference of the two seems too hard for several people to understand.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yeah of course.

Should they be allowed to piss the hell out of me because the're drunk or are smoking near me ? Hell no.

Your avatar pisses the hell out of me, change it

Something annoying you is no basis for making it illegal.

Shouldn't people be allowed to be unhealthy if they want to?

I don't think anyone wants to not wear a seatbelt. Do you know anyone who drives around saying "I'd be having a good time if it weren't for this blasted seatbelt!"?

[LittleGrizzly]

I don't think anyone wants to not wear a seatbelt. Do you know anyone who drives around saying "I'd be having a good time if it weren't for this blasted seatbelt!"?

I used to get pretty car sick as a child and the belt would worsen my car sickness, now if i still had car sickness as bad as i had the last sentence could apply to me, I occasionally don't wear my seatbelt if i feel a bit queasy.

[Xiahou]

I don't think anyone wants to not wear a seatbelt. Do you know anyone who drives around saying "I'd be having a good time if it weren't for this blasted seatbelt!"?

Personally, I think seatbelts are a good safety feature for a very minor inconvenience. However, I know people that absolutely despise seatbelts- think them inconvenient, uncomfortable, and so on. Why do you support forcing them onto people who do think they're inconvenient just because they are not?

Again, it gets back to:

Shouldn't people be allowed to be unhealthy if they want to?

Why do you think people should be free to kill themselves with drugs, but not by refusing to wear a seatbelt?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

However, I know people that absolutely despise seatbelts- think them inconvenient, uncomfortable, and so on.

I think it's a fifty dollar fine that can't be compared to years in prison, and a minor inconvenience that can't be compared to what for some people is their primary mode of recreation.

[Xiahou]

Shouldn't people be allowed to be unhealthy if they want to?(Unless I judge it to be a minor inconvenience to be 'healthy' and I deem the punishment for non-compliance appropriate- then it's ok.)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Haha, fine, have it your way

[HoreTore]

Is that what you really tell yourself? I want to see some studies to prove that's possible, cough them up.

Haven't you heard of people flung out of the front screen during car crashes? Happens a lot if people aren't wearing their safety belts.

And with a guy flung out of his own car, there is of course a chance that he will hit my car, and a chance that he will hit and kill me.

[Brenus]

"Something annoying you is no basis for making it illegal." Er, yes it does. If not why do we have laws...

All what cost money to the society should be ban: Climbing mountains (cost a lot in helicopteres flights to rescue these poeple) swimming, diving, speleogogy, driving car, crossing streets, eating unhealthy food (delicious BUT costly in terms of health) etc.

Thanks to this new concept, the 19th century Moral Leagues would be happy to live now: no smoke, no alcohol, and soon no sex. New research prove it is bad for your heart (ask the Archibishop of Paris who died in a Prostitute bed room. Giving her a confession they said at the time. Don't remember the date but was at the beguinning of 20th Century).