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Thread: Killing Milan
i always find when i play the campaign games,
that the Milanese are always a thorn in my side...
They ALWAYS attack me out of nowhere.. And they field the most annoying armies out of anyone (yes, even more annoying than Mongols- cuz atleast they are a challenge in certain ways).
It seems like everytime their entire army is Geonese Crossbows and Trebucets/Catapults.. Its just so damn annoying to fight them because the battles are boring as hell, and it takes forever to chase down endless stacks of Crossbowmen.
Is there anything I can do, perhaps a small MOD or something, that might improve the AI a bit, and or atleast make it so I can play the game with f---ing MILAN with a dozen stacks of X-bowmens everytime?..
that the Milanese are always a thorn in my side...
They ALWAYS attack me out of nowhere.. And they field the most annoying armies out of anyone (yes, even more annoying than Mongols- cuz atleast they are a challenge in certain ways).
It seems like everytime their entire army is Geonese Crossbows and Trebucets/Catapults.. Its just so damn annoying to fight them because the battles are boring as hell, and it takes forever to chase down endless stacks of Crossbowmen.
Is there anything I can do, perhaps a small MOD or something, that might improve the AI a bit, and or atleast make it so I can play the game with f---ing MILAN with a dozen stacks of X-bowmens everytime?..
One thing you can do is wipe out Milan before they even get rolling. You can use whichever faction you like, but if you're quick enough, two simple seiges get the job done.
If you're the Holy Roman Empire, for example, you can take Florence by turn 2 while you're waiting for those generals and knights from your swiss castles to arrive in Milan, and then use your Kaiser to take Genoa while your generals take Milan. By turn 4, Milan ceases to exist. Use mercenaries where you feel you need added protection against relief forces, however with generals and heavy cavalry, basic spearmen, and archers, you can defeat an early Milanese army that is divided between two cities, or take one while the other is defended by a full stack, then use the river crossings to box them into a single province, lay seige with all your local generals and knights, militiamen and archers, and put down the Milanese for the count.
If some escape to Dijon, your castles can churn out a few heavy knights to lay seige. Even when vastly outnumbered, those heavy knights can fall back, goading any Milanese mounts to give chase, which usually includes the general. You will have an immediate numbers superiority in the location of the general while their troops give chase and their general gets overzealous and moves beyond the protection of his spears.
Kill the general or captain.
Then charge each unit in the line of chasers one at a time and rout all forces... capturing many, for the experience bonuses. You could wheel a single worthless mount around behind them and take them as they flee towards their own city.
You will crush any stack using this plan that does not have excessive amounts of generals or heavy cavalry, provided you pull back to a map corner when they sally, and have their cavalry give chase faster than the infantry can run.
It's cheap, but realistic, effective, and reliable. And so sweet when victorious.
During my latest HRE Blitz runs for the record, I've been using single general units to take out half stack garrisons by having them chase to exhaustion, charging exposed, weak units, routing them, pulling back, charging again, routing some more, killing the captain, reducing their numbers, and pulling back again. Eventually I will lose most of my troops, but by then the enemy has lost 50% or more of their men, and their captain is dead. That's when I attempt to make them all rout at once, or I simply charge towards the city center and hold it for 3 minutes, holding their wives and children hostage and forcing the Reich's rule upon the frightened and beaten people.
They surrender, and I move on.
Milan should be the least of your worries, but I say that as a Blitzer... Milan never survives very long if I am anywhere near Italy. As a moderate or a turtle, your problem may simply be letting them expand too much.
Remember, they are weak against heavy cavalry. Oh, they have unlimited, powerful militia spearmen, but they have awful, weak, and limited cavalry for the most part. Eventually they may gain a castle and get some decent ones. But for a while, you have the cavalry advantage, if not the numbers advantage.
Use them. Even in the open field, split your forces and surround the infantry. Get them to give chase, disperse a little, or give them too many flanks to defend. Their general will be exposed. Charge him!
If the enemy arrives to surround and pound, retreat.
Circle like a vulture. wait to attack. Spearmen facing the wrong way? CHARGE!!!
Peasant archers exposed? CHARGE!!!
Lone cavalry unit breaks away? CHARGE!!!
General on the left flank? attack the left flank! zoom in and watch his movement. If he moves away, order your unit to charge in that direction (click the ground near him). Surround him again. Wait for the melee to work.
He will eventually go down. Even if you take losses, you have a general and they dont. You have heavy cavalry advantage, and they don't. Spread out. Form a line of death. Charge the enemy at any flank and begin the chain rout.
Once they rout, have a unit of mounted sergeants slay all the routers. Don't use mounted sergeants for melee unless forced to. Use them to chase routers and strike peasants. Avoid melee.
With such basic info, Milan should be brought to her knees by you.
Alternatively, they have no archer cavalry. If you're an Eastern faction, or the Moors, you have that advantage. Bring some christian merc cavalry for heavy support.
You can mod the game if you want... but if you mod away all the challenge, the fun vanishes as well.
If you're the Holy Roman Empire, for example, you can take Florence by turn 2 while you're waiting for those generals and knights from your swiss castles to arrive in Milan, and then use your Kaiser to take Genoa while your generals take Milan. By turn 4, Milan ceases to exist. Use mercenaries where you feel you need added protection against relief forces, however with generals and heavy cavalry, basic spearmen, and archers, you can defeat an early Milanese army that is divided between two cities, or take one while the other is defended by a full stack, then use the river crossings to box them into a single province, lay seige with all your local generals and knights, militiamen and archers, and put down the Milanese for the count.
If some escape to Dijon, your castles can churn out a few heavy knights to lay seige. Even when vastly outnumbered, those heavy knights can fall back, goading any Milanese mounts to give chase, which usually includes the general. You will have an immediate numbers superiority in the location of the general while their troops give chase and their general gets overzealous and moves beyond the protection of his spears.
Kill the general or captain.
Then charge each unit in the line of chasers one at a time and rout all forces... capturing many, for the experience bonuses. You could wheel a single worthless mount around behind them and take them as they flee towards their own city.
You will crush any stack using this plan that does not have excessive amounts of generals or heavy cavalry, provided you pull back to a map corner when they sally, and have their cavalry give chase faster than the infantry can run.
It's cheap, but realistic, effective, and reliable. And so sweet when victorious.
During my latest HRE Blitz runs for the record, I've been using single general units to take out half stack garrisons by having them chase to exhaustion, charging exposed, weak units, routing them, pulling back, charging again, routing some more, killing the captain, reducing their numbers, and pulling back again. Eventually I will lose most of my troops, but by then the enemy has lost 50% or more of their men, and their captain is dead. That's when I attempt to make them all rout at once, or I simply charge towards the city center and hold it for 3 minutes, holding their wives and children hostage and forcing the Reich's rule upon the frightened and beaten people.
They surrender, and I move on.
Milan should be the least of your worries, but I say that as a Blitzer... Milan never survives very long if I am anywhere near Italy. As a moderate or a turtle, your problem may simply be letting them expand too much.
Remember, they are weak against heavy cavalry. Oh, they have unlimited, powerful militia spearmen, but they have awful, weak, and limited cavalry for the most part. Eventually they may gain a castle and get some decent ones. But for a while, you have the cavalry advantage, if not the numbers advantage.
Use them. Even in the open field, split your forces and surround the infantry. Get them to give chase, disperse a little, or give them too many flanks to defend. Their general will be exposed. Charge him!
If the enemy arrives to surround and pound, retreat.
Circle like a vulture. wait to attack. Spearmen facing the wrong way? CHARGE!!!
Peasant archers exposed? CHARGE!!!
Lone cavalry unit breaks away? CHARGE!!!
General on the left flank? attack the left flank! zoom in and watch his movement. If he moves away, order your unit to charge in that direction (click the ground near him). Surround him again. Wait for the melee to work.
He will eventually go down. Even if you take losses, you have a general and they dont. You have heavy cavalry advantage, and they don't. Spread out. Form a line of death. Charge the enemy at any flank and begin the chain rout.
Once they rout, have a unit of mounted sergeants slay all the routers. Don't use mounted sergeants for melee unless forced to. Use them to chase routers and strike peasants. Avoid melee.
With such basic info, Milan should be brought to her knees by you.
Alternatively, they have no archer cavalry. If you're an Eastern faction, or the Moors, you have that advantage. Bring some christian merc cavalry for heavy support.
You can mod the game if you want... but if you mod away all the challenge, the fun vanishes as well.
I have an indirect way of handling Milan. They will go for Dijon first and then Ajaccio. They wont attack Dijon if someone else gets there first, but Ajaccio is like a magnet for the Milanese (and some other factions, notably the Sicilians) regardless of who holds it. So I take Ajaccio and gift it to the pope.
Sooner or later the Milanese will attack, and I (having boosted relations due to my generous gift) can call for a crusade on Milan:D
EDIT: Btw, I've modded the siege equipment factories so that max one piece of siege machinery can be available at a time. This seems to somewhat limit the AI:s recruitment of Ballistae and Catapults without making the buildings useless.
Sooner or later the Milanese will attack, and I (having boosted relations due to my generous gift) can call for a crusade on Milan:D
EDIT: Btw, I've modded the siege equipment factories so that max one piece of siege machinery can be available at a time. This seems to somewhat limit the AI:s recruitment of Ballistae and Catapults without making the buildings useless.
How many games have you played in which Milan does not get excommunicated even though you haven't tried to help them in the process. They are rather easy to provoke by sending weak units into their territory. Then set some more weak units on your border with them or send weak naval units to taunt theirs. The AI can't resist, especially the Milanese. I think that they should always be an eary priority target, because their two cities are very profitable and strategically placed and because if they are not crushed they can become annoyingly powerful. Venice and Sicily would similarly problematic but are spread out and the AI has trouble coordinating and concentrating their armies effectively.
At least I am not the only one that has noticed this. I got so sick of them besieging me with their mini militia stacks, then pelting my men with their xbow bolts as soon as they sallied through the city gates. I wish there was some option when an enemy army was approaching your city to meet them in the field before they besieged you.
Hrm, I never had any trouble with Milan. Any cavalry stack will overrun them easily. I find Carrocio Standards annoying because I get fewer prisoners and less ransom.
Send a stack of your lowest tier cavalry after them, and you'll eat them alive in the field, over and over again.
Send a stack of your lowest tier cavalry after them, and you'll eat them alive in the field, over and over again.
Originally Posted by Ramses II CP:
Hrm, I never had any trouble with Milan. Any cavalry stack will overrun them easily. I find Carrocio Standards annoying because I get fewer prisoners and less ransom.
Send a stack of your lowest tier cavalry after them, and you'll eat them alive in the field, over and over again.
Seems like Ramses and I are of one mind yet again.Hrm, I never had any trouble with Milan. Any cavalry stack will overrun them easily. I find Carrocio Standards annoying because I get fewer prisoners and less ransom.
Send a stack of your lowest tier cavalry after them, and you'll eat them alive in the field, over and over again.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Cavalry is counter-intuitive because of all the militia spearmen... but it works. Heavy cavalry, open field. Defend against sallies, etc.
Milan is toast.
Agreed, don't be afraid of all the pointy sticks. I just sallied out against 3 Italian militia and 3 Italian spear. I totally had my way with them while using only 1 desert cav and 1 arab cav, who took a combined 16 losses.
Just don't be silly enough to charge the pointy stick people directly. Flank or hit from the rear. Use a cheap unit - even peasants - to pin the spearmen. Light cavalry is all that is needed. Just charge and withdraw over and over until the enemy panics. Of course, if you auto resolve you'll be eating dirt.
Originally Posted by askthepizzaguy:
Seems like Ramses and I are of one mind yet again.
Cavalry is counter-intuitive because of all the militia spearmen... but it works. Heavy cavalry, open field. Defend against sallies, etc.
Milan is toast.
Absolutely. The AI doesn't use schiltrom, so even the good militia spearmen can't turn as fast as your horses can flank. Heck, even if they did use schiltrom heavy cavalry will smash right through, but mostly I send light cavalry against Milan/Venice.Seems like Ramses and I are of one mind yet again.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Cavalry is counter-intuitive because of all the militia spearmen... but it works. Heavy cavalry, open field. Defend against sallies, etc.
Milan is toast.
Personally I have an absolute love affair with fast horse cavalry, even if it's light cavalry. You can eat the AI alive with some fast cavalry, there's just nothing they can do to respond effectively.
Milan somehow always finds a way to be completely piss off everyone on the game, when you are les expecting it. By turn 20-30 they have been already two times excommunicated. I was allied with them helping them to wage war on Venice, in fact i recover Milan from them, repelled at least three sieges and then launch an attack on Venice. Venice was heavily protected and the Duce in person tried to lift the siege by attacking me from the other side of the bridge with the city garrison get into the fight as a reinforcement. The army of the Duce was just him and one more unit of heavy cavalry, i rush my spearmen and they made a quick job of them. At that point with Venice under my control i was about to return Milan to the Milaneses after i retrained my units from the fight, when this snaked attack Marseille and Ajaccio :fourious3:. In retaliation i put a siege on Genova and then his holiness order me to don't attack Milan or i will be on his black list. I just a lift the siege an get back to Milan while they army that was siegen Marseillese get back to protect Genova. They are still havin a siege on Ajaccio, i just a matter of wait one more turn and i will see the third excommunication of Milan in less the 30 turns, and then when they are pretty much doom my army from Milan lead with Louis will march to Genova and my army from Venice will go after Florence. I will let them live on Ajaccio, i will sink all they navy and condemn to live on this island forever, i guess that i best punishment than just exterminated them, at least i will smile everytime than i will pass close to Ajaccio 
Its the assassins the Milanese seem to churn out that bug me. Eat their armies for lunch. But those damn assassins!
Lol@assassins.
Spies and assassins are easy to defend against.
Even a few low level spies or one good spy can all but prevent spying or damage to cities.
As for assassinating generals... it is of no concern. Soon the rebellion will be crushed and young Skywalker will be one of us. Your work here is finished my friend. Go out to the command ship and await my orders.
Uhh... I mean, I typically wipe out anything before assassins even show up, but if they are there, I can still win with captain led armies.
Although, if you've seen my threads, I generally (lol) have about 40-50 generals by the time the midgame gets rolling, as well as 45-60 provinces. So assassins simply cannot stop me.
I am the Hydra... cut off one head and three more take its place. You MUST crush me quickly with one giant boulder smash, or I win.
Spies and assassins are easy to defend against.
Even a few low level spies or one good spy can all but prevent spying or damage to cities.
As for assassinating generals... it is of no concern. Soon the rebellion will be crushed and young Skywalker will be one of us. Your work here is finished my friend. Go out to the command ship and await my orders.
Uhh... I mean, I typically wipe out anything before assassins even show up, but if they are there, I can still win with captain led armies.
Although, if you've seen my threads, I generally (lol) have about 40-50 generals by the time the midgame gets rolling, as well as 45-60 provinces. So assassins simply cannot stop me.
I am the Hydra... cut off one head and three more take its place. You MUST crush me quickly with one giant boulder smash, or I win.
I got mightily pissed of with milan while playing HRE, as i allied Silicy, Venice and Milan hoping to create a force with the backing of some greater forces around me, then i got backstabbed by Milan first, who saw the problem and declared a ceasefire, then Silicy attacked florence, which ended in utter failure and the decapitation of a certain Faction Heir 
Then Venice came from nowhere with two decently sized armies, but my cavalry from Denmark came down and crushed the weaker army while struggling to pass a diplomat and reach my other city. The siege ended suprisingly well, i lost like 100 soldiers of which were mainly town guards blocking the ladders. Then moments later while my finances take a blow, milan decides to blockade all my ports and siege florence, so i went rabid and made them declare peace, got 2000 gold and genoa in the process, milan can wait for now But then Venice's priest became pope and i lost all standing with the pope, whilst venice sieged my cities, so i struck back at venice and got ex-communicated , but oh well, thats my story
Then Venice came from nowhere with two decently sized armies, but my cavalry from Denmark came down and crushed the weaker army while struggling to pass a diplomat and reach my other city. The siege ended suprisingly well, i lost like 100 soldiers of which were mainly town guards blocking the ladders. Then moments later while my finances take a blow, milan decides to blockade all my ports and siege florence, so i went rabid and made them declare peace, got 2000 gold and genoa in the process, milan can wait for now But then Venice's priest became pope and i lost all standing with the pope, whilst venice sieged my cities, so i struck back at venice and got ex-communicated , but oh well, thats my story
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