Makedonian Thorakitai

**Moosemanmoo** · 02-18-2008, 16:12

Are they supposed to be missing?
I'm aware there were issues with Epeirus recruitment, so is this the same mistake or was it deliberate to not implement them for Makedonia

ty in advance

**anubis88** · 02-18-2008, 16:28

I think there aren't supposed to be any, since i've never seen them in costum battle

**Watchman** · 02-18-2008, 16:51

Seems to me like like the Macs simply don't have that unit. They're not listed as having ownership in the EDU, the Recruitement Viewer, etc.

**Frodge** · 02-18-2008, 17:27

There is a skin for mak throakitai apparently i know MAA edited his edu to get them, you should ask him.

**Watchman** · 02-18-2008, 17:32

In the DMB they're just assigned the Koinon skin though... no separate Mac Thorakitai texture exists AFAIK.

**Moosemanmoo** · 02-18-2008, 17:49

thanks all for the responses

**anubis88** · 02-18-2008, 18:22

A little of topic. Why do the Epirotes and Ptolys have them? I thought they were only mentioned in Seleucid and Achaean armys

**russia almighty** · 02-18-2008, 18:37

Ptolemics were said to have a couple "knock-off" "legions". Really it was a royal guard unit and probably the Thorakitai.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 02-18-2008, 19:20

Originally Posted by anubis88

A little of topic. Why do the Epirotes and Ptolys have them? I thought they were only mentioned in Seleucid and Achaean armys

It's the wonder of nomenclature for ya: Thorakitai is best translated with heavy infantry; and the thorakitai such as we depict them are a heavy version of the Thureophoroi for all intents and purposes. Hence whatever fits that depiction may be given the general name of Thorakites.

**paullus** · 02-18-2008, 19:21

that's not true. the ptolemies made extensive use of thureophoroi and thorakitai, especially after the panion disaster and over the course of the 2nd c. bc, as thureophoroi caught on across the hellenistic world, and as the ability of the ptolemaic state to field a Macedonian phalanx deteriorated.

**KhaziOfKalabara** · 02-19-2008, 15:24

Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

It's the wonder of nomenclature for ya: Thorakitai is best translated with heavy infantry; and the thorakitai such as we depict them are a heavy version of the Thureophoroi for all intents and purposes. Hence whatever fits that depiction may be given the general name of Thorakites.

So, in the context of the OP's question, what battlefield role did the Thorakitai fulfill? Were they primarily line troops, to compensate for later successor states' inability to field pikes in sufficient quantities, or should they be regarded as an evolution or improvement on the pezhetairoi given the different tactical challenges that the non-Macedonian Hellenistic states faced?

And then, is there a "gap" (conceptually at least) in the Macedonian unit roster that the player should fill using Pheraspidai, Agrianikoi or similar?

**Moosemanmoo** · 02-20-2008, 23:13

I just presumed the Maks would have considering all other hellenistic factions have them

**O'ETAIPOS** · 02-21-2008, 02:18

Originally Posted by KhaziOfKalabara

So, in the context of the OP's question, what battlefield role did the Thorakitai fulfill? Were they primarily line troops, to compensate for later successor states' inability to field pikes in sufficient quantities, or should they be regarded as an evolution or improvement on the pezhetairoi given the different tactical challenges that the non-Macedonian Hellenistic states faced?

And then, is there a "gap" (conceptually at least) in the Macedonian unit roster that the player should fill using Pheraspidai, Agrianikoi or similar?

As far as we can tell (and not much is known) they were used mainly as support of light troops and not as troops placed in the main line (obviously in big battles)
For example in III battle of Mantineia (fought between Aetolian league and Sparta) they were placed by Achaeans on the wings of the phalanx, behind skirmishers and "mercenaries" (probably sth like our Peltastai/Thureophoroi).

In one earlier battle, when achaeans sent army after retreating Aetolians and formation broke up thorakitai were advancing close enough behind light armed to be broken by fleeing lights.

Seleucid ones are reported once in mountain operations where they again fight as support for light armed.

In Makedonia this role was fullified by unit composed of young nobles (no older than 35) they were highly trained elite of Antigonid army - this is unit is rendered in EB by Pheraspidai (Polibius sometimes calls them Peltastai). In Alexander's time hypaspistai were such unit, but for unknown reason this changed later and name Hypaspistai started to be used for king's personal guard.

You are also right about Agriranians, they were also used in simmilar role.