Seleucid Army

**Mouzafphaerre** · 02-18-2008, 22:51

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The link wasn't to Google Books mate.

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**abou** · 02-19-2008, 21:07

The thing with Sekunda is that he is either admired or viewed as a laughing-stock. Some academic criticisms of his work really hammer him, but as he is more accessible to the average reader he is more widely known - hence imitation legionnaires in RTW.

Coming from the anti-imitation camp (after all, what would a hostage Antiochos IV have seen in a city where no military presence is allowed other than triumphs and ovations?) the one good thing I will say is that there are images of artifacts that are difficult to find elsewhere. An example of this being the armored elephant statuette.

**MeinPanzer** · 02-19-2008, 22:01

Originally Posted by abou

The thing with Sekunda is that he is either admired or viewed as a laughing-stock. Some academic criticisms of his work really hammer him, but as he is more accessible to the average reader he is more widely known - hence imitation legionnaires in RTW.

I've never known academic critiques of his work to be all that harsh on him, but you have to keep in mind that compared to his other "academic" publications (e.g. conference papers, journal articles), this was intended for a wider audience. These two Montvert titles were sort of the few remnants of a much larger work that he managed to publish before Montvert publishing sunk in the late '90s, apparently along with any hopes of publishing the larger book. The other fragment of that larger work which he managed to publish was "Hellenistic Infantry Reform in the 160's BC," which is the cleaner, more streamlined and more academic synthesis of the two Montvert titles, only without the nice McBride plates and illustrations.

And the imitation legionaries are by no means attributable to Sekunda, except maybe their appearance, but the rest comes straight from Polybius.

Sekunda is by far the best and most productive academic author focusing on Hellenistic arms and armour, and he recently began a colloquium for Hellenistic warfare which has been a few years in running now. I don't agree with a lot of his ideas (for instance, his strict adherence to identification of uniforms and "regimental emblems"), but he brings lots of new information to the table whenever he publishes something and usually presents interesting and well-informed theories.

Coming from the anti-imitation camp (after all, what would a hostage Antiochos IV have seen in a city where no military presence is allowed other than triumphs and ovations?) the one good thing I will say is that there are images of artifacts that are difficult to find elsewhere. An example of this being the armored elephant statuette.

You do realize that high-profile political hostages were not literally held only in Rome, right? They quite often had a lot of freedom to move around with friendly Romans, and there is no doubt that Antiochus was warmly received in Rome- he even had a house built for him at public expense! He would have had plenty of opportunity to see Roman troops in the Italian countryside, and so the whole idea of imitation legionaries is not implausible at all.

**Anakuj** · 02-20-2008, 16:31

Originally Posted by abou

The thing with Sekunda is that he is either admired or viewed as a laughing-stock. Some academic criticisms of his work really hammer him, but as he is more accessible to the average reader he is more widely known - hence imitation legionnaires in RTW.

Coming from the anti-imitation camp (after all, what would a hostage Antiochos IV have seen in a city where no military presence is allowed other than triumphs and ovations?) the one good thing I will say is that there are images of artifacts that are difficult to find elsewhere. An example of this being the armored elephant statuette.

Thank You, really thank You abou!

You are the first one, who answered my question, but you are the 20th poster!

There is only one questin left (for me): can we say that your Thureophoroi/Thorakitai units are the ""seleukid legions"" of Sekunda, influenced a little bit by romans in formations-tactics/organisation (not in their looks, of corse)?

Thank you

**Foot** · 02-20-2008, 18:23

Originally Posted by Anakuj

There is only one questin left (for me): can we say that your Thureophoroi/Thorakitai units are the ""seleukid legions"" of Sekunda, influenced a little bit by romans in formations-tactics/organisation (not in their looks, of corse)?

AFAIK, they were developed before meeting the romans in battle. Parallel development of infantry formations is not impossible.

Foot

**TWFanatic** · 02-20-2008, 04:03

Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

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The link wasn't to Google Books mate.

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But here's what Foot had to say about ebooks:

Unless you pay for it, it is illegal.

Therefore, Google books are illegal.

The all-knowing foot is never wrong!

**Gaivs** · 02-20-2008, 05:21

If its on Google Books, then its availabe for free distribution. Thats why its on Google Books in the first place. Do you honestly think a company like Google would let copyrighted material on their sites? They would get sued before you could even open the ebook. Hence, Google books are not illegal in anyway shape or form. The proper references are there, and the copyright owners are clearly stated.