A humble appeal to the EB historians

[Cyclops]

...I've been thinking along the lines of perhaps shedding some light on the Achaemenid (sp?) Persian empire, from Persian sources (as opposed to Greek ones)....

I believe there are almost no contemporary literary sources for the Achaemenids so that might be a short project. There are the rock inscriptions of royal decrees but apart from the (rather long a guilty sounding) one at Behistun, they are laconic in the extreme. Was there an almighty destruction of Persian literature in the early Caliphate? AFAIK Achaemenid history is chiefly sourced from Hellenic sources and archaeology.

Cmaq's idea about empires of the wheel vs empires of the sail etc is a fascinating idea: the way economy and technology shapes politics and culture sounds somewhat Marxist and unfashionable but frankly the nuts and bolts of an empire are worthy of study. A project on "where did the Roman & Sassanid empires get their administrators from"" is worth a look.

I am struck by (or maybe I want to see) issues of continuity/similarity between empires. "Road building as a tool of empire" might touch on Persian and Roman engineering (and maybe Assyrian? Dunno), and the state institutions in common between a horse-riding aristocractic dynasty and a republican city-state.

Provinces and satelites are part of every empire: you might discuss Persian, Roman/Byzantine and Arab responses to the status of Armenia (a real bone of contention for empires seeking domination of the region for millenia).

[cmacq]

laconic in the extreme.

Laconic, as in concise or of few words in Remembrance, of Empire or a nation's long-dead?

Indeed a bit Recessional yet, 'lest we forget'...



...so for a little something, something about the, 'pomp of yesterday,' please see below.

http://persepolistablets.blogspot.com/

[Intrepid Adventurer]

Thank you so much guys. Lots of useful suggestions. I'll let you guys know what I've come up with. For now I'm leaning towards the empires building on empires thing or that Byzantine/Sassanid/Arab melee.

I don't have to decide till wednesday evening, so if anyone has another suggestion, I'll be very happy to hear it!

[cmacq]

Arab

I believe that technically, the Arab conquests were part and parcel of an ethnic movement and not an empire (under a single political authority at least in name). If one goes the Arab Empire route then we shall have the Keltic, Germanic, and Slavic empires; the Empire of the serf, slave, or all those not in an empire; and even the Empire of the Ant. If nothing else, empires are discrete polities and not the sad byproduct of self-loathing inclusionary-socialism, often of those hired to teach, not of those sent to learn?

No reflection on you IA, but hows that for a thine slice of wonkish jargonistic nonsense; an Arab Empire indeed? As well, you may want to think twice before wading into a discussion of the Byzantine-Sassanid-Arab conflect, for here the currents of bias, bigotry, intolerance, penchance, and prejudice flow unabated on all sides, and in todays world these remain troubled waters.

Daily rant over.

[Watchman]

Well - it was for quite a while ruled pretty exclusively by Arabs. Of a fairly specific clan too, IIRC.

And arguably the related population shifts were a direct result of the creation of the empire - ie. garrison settlements - in much the same way as the creation of Hellenic communities all across the old Persian empire under Alexander and the Diadochi...

[Michiel de Ruyter]

Okay,

I have had a lecture last friday by an expert on the Parthians and Parthian religion (currently completing a volume in a series about Zoroastrism).

If you want to talk about the Achaemenid (Parthian) empire mainly using sources from them, your paper will be very very short. There is very little to no litterary evidence from them... most of what there is are ostraca dealing with the storage of wine... the best known aspect of them is their viticulture...

There is still fierce debate about who their kings were (especially the early ones), and the most informative sources we have about them are Roman. Archaeology will offer little help, primarily because of local difficulties (of nationalist/religious origin) over the past decades. Afghanistan (civil war), Iran (especially since the Islamic Republic little to no work done, only starting up again), Iraq (Saddam), and Turkey (sensitivities conerning everything not ethnic Turkish).

The mellee between multiple empires needs specification (the subject is HUGE). If you want to do something with it, narrow it down ASAP.

If you want to include non-Graeco Roman sources one empires, check asap about the availability of sources (translations). Nothing is more frustrating than finding the perfect book/narrative and it not being available in the country or only available in a language you can not read

Anyway, good luck!


PS. I am MPhil student at Leiden U.

[cmacq]

If you want to talk about the Achaemenid (Parthian) empire mainly using.

Is that Arsacid or Achaemenid?

[cmacq]

Well - it was for quite a while ruled pretty exclusively by Arabs. Of a fairly specific clan too, IIRC.

I may have been misunderstood as I would not call any of these Arab Empires

-------------------------
The Rashidun Empire, 632 – 661 AD

al-Khulafā’ur-Rāshidūn, The Righteous Caliphs

Abu Bakr (632-634 AD) Banu Taym---clan
Umar ibn al-Khattab, (Umar І) (634-644 AD) Banu Adi---clan
Uthmān bn ‘Affān (644-656 AD) Banu Umayyad ---clan
Ali ibn Abi Talib (656-661 AD) Banu Hashim---clan
Hasan ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib (661 AD) Banu Hashim---clan

The Umayyad Empire, 661–750 AD

Sufyanid dynasty
Mu‘āwīyah ibn Abī Sufyān (661-680 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Sufyanid ---sept
Yazid Ibn Muawiyah Ibn Abu Sufyan (680-683 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Sufyanid ---sept
Mu'āwiyya ibn Yazīd (683-684 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Sufyanid ---sept

Marwanid dynasty
Marwan ibn al-Hakam (684-685 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Marwanid ---sept
Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan (685-705 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Marwanid ---sept
Al-Walid ibn Abd al-Malik (705-715 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Marwanid ---sept
Sulayman bin Abd al-Malik (715-717 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Marwanid ---sept
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz (717-720 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Marwanid ---sept
Yazid bin Abd al-Malik (720–724 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Marwanid ---sept
Hisham ibn Abd al-Malik (724–743 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Marwanid ---sept
Walid ibn Yazid (743–744 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Marwanid ---sept
Yazid ibn Al-Walid ibn Abd al-Malik (744 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Marwanid ---sept
Ibrahim ibn Al-Walid (744 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Marwanid ---sept
Marwan ibn Muhammad ibn Marwan (744–750 AD) Banu Umayyad---clan, Marwanid ---sept

Abbasid Empire
(750 -1258 AD)

Fatimid Empire
(910 -1171 AD)

Ayyubid Empire
(1171-1250 AD)

Mamluk Empire
(1250-1517 AD)

And arguably the related population shifts were a direct result of the creation of the empire - ie. garrison settlements - in much the same way as the creation of Hellenic communities all across the old Persian empire under Alexander and the Diadochi...

Again, I would not call any of these Hellenic Empires.

But that me.

[Cyclops]

I may have been misunderstood as I would not call any of these Arab Empires...

I think Arab empire is a reasonable and understandable shorthand for all those dynasties you mention up to the Abbasids.

I use expressions like british Empire and French Empire and they aren't quite right but people get what I mean ( a bit klike the way people use "America" to mean the USA).

Would you call them an Islamic Empire?