Tips for Koinon Hellenon vs Getai?

[duncan.gill]

I am currently playing at Koinon Hellenon campaign, have crushed Makedonia/Pontus and have beaten the Ptolemaiois all the way back to the Nile. Unfortunately the Getai have just declared war against me (after I was paying them off for the first 50 yrs with tribute).

I am finding them incredibly difficult - I have been avoiding confronting them unless I have a 2 to 1 advantage; even then I am losing upto 40% of my force.

I think that this has something to do with their not breaking (despite flanking charges) and their armour piercing falxmen (which chop up my heavily armoured infantry). Does anyone have any tips for fighting them? I am yet to get a barracks that give me access to my best pikemen (which does not help) but otherwise have access to all the core troops.

[Watchman]

Those falx guys don't like missiles. Any missiles. At all.

[Kromulan]

Yep . . . you only thought those Toxotai were worthless. They'll wipe out the basic falxmen and any spearmen the Dacians throw at you. Normal anti-phalanx tactics work just fine vs the Dacian light phalanx. . .

[duncan.gill]

Any difference re: archers or slingers? Finding that the falxmen close in very quickly on my line - perhaps I should adopt a less static formation.

[Beefy187]

Archers might work better because slinger has to be on the front where archers get to stay behind the phalanx

[pezhetairoi]

You know, you've driven the Yellows back to the Nile. That means you have Syria. Just go get some Toxotai Syriakoi or Toxotai Kretikoi and be done with it! o.O They'd beat down any falxmen before they could even come close. Seriously. Take some thureophoroi and thorakitai with you, surely they can hammer anything the Getai can come up with.

[Imperial Fist]

Or encounter the falxmen with your greek reformed phalanx. Those guys have very long spears and will hold them in place while youll be able to bring your skirmishers, archers or slingers to the flank and finish them off. Dont forget to protect the missle troops while they are killing the falxmen.
It will become funny when the getai start to use thracian elite infantry. You will have real probs then!

[Stone and Blood]

Those Two handed sword/katana/falxman/shield combo are very cool, and scary... I love them :)

[The General]

Those Two handed sword/katana/falxman/shield combo are very cool, and scary... I love them :)

'Thraikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi', or something? The weapon's name was 'rhomphaia', if I'm not mistaken. It's been some time since I last played near that area, tho'.

[Imperial Fist]

Those Two handed sword/katana/falxman/shield combo are very cool, and scary... I love them :)

Yeah and they can cut through everything.

[Theodotos I]

Yeah, missiles. Any missiles. All sorts of missiles. Even stone-throwing slaves would be good. Otherwise you're in trouble. I know. Been there, done that. Got the t-shirt. Good luck.

[Juvenal]

When I encountered the Getai as KH in EB 0.81, it was their armoured horse-archer bodyguards that did for me.

My armies had lots of hoplites plus 3 slingers and sometimes 3 cretan archers, and a single unit of Hippeis for chasing routers. I had no fear of falxmen (they would rapidly become pincushions) but the first time I met a Getai army containing 4 family members I was nearly wiped-out.

They stood on small hill-tops and out-ranged my slingers. When I moved close enough to shoot at them, my stones and arrows bounced off their damned armour while my slingers went down like strikers in the penalty area.

Whenever the hoplites tried to close the Getai simply skirmished away to another hilltop while I trailed corpses all over the map.

Luckily the Getai empire was small, so I came back with some Thessalian cavalry and lots and lots of peltasts. I put the peltasts into loose order, switched off skirmish and filled the map with them. There was nowhere for the Getai to skirmish away to, so they got into melee with my peltasts which allowed my hoplites to run up and poke them in the face.

It was very satisfying.

[Stone and Blood]

'Thraikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi', or something? The weapon's name was 'rhomphaia', if I'm not mistaken. It's been some time since I last played near that area, tho'.

Yeah. But theyr curved blade looks a lot like a katana, but bigger. In my opinnion, katana is the most effective sword weapon, made to slash armor and flash, different from most of the celtic swords, wich are used to smash armor and bones. This 'rhomphaia' must be very strong, and the getai elite very fierce warriors.Is Theyr weapon focused on slashing too?

[Watchman]

The katana is a convex sabre designed for what is known as "draw cut" - that sort of blade is excellent for, say, slicing flesh, but kinda sucks against armour as it tends to sort of slide off and/or get bogged down in the material. Their shape is also pretty well suited for delivering cuts from horseback.

Sabres were also a quite late design, first appearing among the Avars of the Pontic steppe in 7th century AD or so. (The Japanese likely picked the design up in Korea around the 9th century or so, although the indigenous "barbarians" of the northern parts of the islands were apparently the first large-scale users in the archipelago.)

Concave-curved blades are much older (partly as they're easier to make for metallurgical reasons I'll not go into here), and operate on a rather different principle. They can be termed "choppers", aiming to focus the entire force of the blow in a narrow area and "trapping" the target in the curve of the blade. Essentially, the exact opposite of the convex sabres.

The Thracian rhomphaia, in fact encountered in straight forms as commonly as concave ones, was a single-edged, quite heavy weapon designed specifically for delivering terrible shearing blows; all metal in construction with a full tang. Teh Wiki covers the design details pretty well, but I'd be kinda wary of much of the rest of the entry.

[unreal_uk]

Falxmen wither under missile fire and cavalry charges from the rear.

[Stone and Blood]

Thanks Watchman. Very interesting.

[Cyclops]

I really limit the amount of foot missile units in my armies for role playing reasons, never have more than 4 archers and/or slings. Endless rows of archers still won't save your bacon here though, at some point you'll have to front up to the heavy foot.

With any heavy hand-to-hand inf that scare me I try to "pad" my line with long thin lines of fast moving skirmishers. Your boys fall back before charges, stalling the enemy unit that often pauses and regroups. Those pauses let the next row of skirmishers fling their darts, and the long range missiles to the flank/rear get another volley off too. This isn't an exploit, I think its quite a legitimate ancient tactic using javelins to disrupt assaults.

Make sure you spread them thin and deep, that is to say 4 lines of 1 unit of akontistai rather than 1 line of 4.

My formation as KH will be a thick body of hoplites with wings of archers and slings, and a sort of skirmish zone out front with layers of skirmishers (Thracians if I can get them). The skirmishers fall back through the main line and spin off to the flanks for the encirclement. Akontistai will need to fling javelins into Getai butts to get them to break, but Thracian peltasts are nasty enough to charge straight in.

The little bit of cavalry I build is deep in the rear strictly for anti-cav counter-charges, fight-finishing flank moves, and pursuit.

Of course one solution is to build up your MIC's in Thrace and throw the elite Thraikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi back at 'em. Hot falx-on-falx action!

[Hooahguy]

bah- there are no tactics against the getai- they will win every time, no matter what you throw against them!

jk.....

[antisocialmunky]

Bosphoran Archers are freaking tanks.

[Gebeleisis]

bah- there are no tactics against the getai- they will win every time, no matter what you throw against them!

thats better ,more realistic

[Olimpian]

Getai rule. No wonder they kicked some roman #&% in 87-88 AD

[mcantu]

I'm using Thracian Peltasts as my shock troops right now. I bumped up their armor stat to 11 since they have pretty much the same armor as Classical Hoplites and they are tearing through the Mak phalanxes from the rear...

[Ayce]

bah- there are no tactics against the getai- they will win every time, no matter what you throw against them!

so true...so true.... :D

Although Bosphoran Archers would be good if you have access to them. Add a few phalanxes (Greeks have long pikes available) and you may actually survive

[Gebeleisis]

...maybe



good point there ayce

[Hooahguy]

ha- i doubt you will even then!

[Olimpian]

I recently conquered the Getai in my Roman campaign(heartbraking ) and it was tough.I actually lost a battle I normaly should have won and had to make several strategical retreats.Those rhomphaia hacked through my principes with ease(superb weapon).I had to use some mercenary phalanxes to help keep them at bay.A wierd thing was that they conquered the ilyrian town north of Epirus and I found it full of local ilyrian coastal levies.That was a wierd battle

[Hooahguy]

I actually lost a battle I normaly should have won and had to make several strategical retreats.Those rhomphaia hacked through my principes with ease(superb weapon).

that makes sense- the getai always win and only lose if we are overwhelmingly outnumbered!

[Olimpian]

that makes sense- the getai always win and only lose if we are overwhelmingly outnumbered!

...or controlled by Artificial Idiocy

[Hooahguy]

...or controlled by Artificial Idiocy

...that too.....

[marodeur]

RUN!