Total War games...

[Lord Chu]

Hello, I'm new to the forums, not sure about this. But, I guess I had better start somewhere...

I was playing an awesome campaign in Rome Total War, Gaul has probably been the most entertaining faction so far...though the cavalry seems to run over everything... For example, I was fighting against the SPQR and they had 6 units of Trairii and my cavalry ran them down from behind...it seems that the AI doesn't know how to properly cover the flank. I got bored of the game after playing some decidedly awesome battles. I'm getting tired of the campaign game though, it's just a lot of micromanagement...I've had Rome for about 4 years now...Originally I liked the game a lot, but not for the battles...now my opinion is reversed. So I ordered Shogun...what is everyone's opinion about that game? I like Japan a lot, I enjoy Risk, and chess, and I would like less micromanagement. I hope I like the game...

[TosaInu]

Hello Lord Chu.

[The Wandering Scholar]

wait for caravel to show up, he is a STW fan.

[Martok]

Welcome to the Org, Lord Chu!

So I ordered Shogun...what is everyone's opinion about that game?

While I play and enjoy MTW more, that's mostly because of the time period. Overall, however, Shogun is IMHO the better game; it's probably the best and "purest" expression of CA's Total War concept.

It's the best balanced of all the TW titles -- no unit is overpowered, and every unit remains useful, even into the latter stages of the game. Some clans are easier to play as then others, but it's very possible to win with all of them. The AI -- while not without its flaws -- is generally cunning and ruthless, both on & off the battlefield.

Perhaps the game's biggest draw, however, is its atmosphere. I've been playing PC strategy games for over 10 years now, and most of them don't even begin to approach the sense of immersion I experience when playing STW. The original Sengoku Jidai-period artwork, the assassination movies that keep you straining with tension, the Throne Room advisor, the haunting music & soundtrack (both during combat and on the campaign map), the sounds, and the visuals all combine together in a way that makes you really *feel* like you're a Japanese daimyo in the middle of feudal Japan.

Trust me -- after you've fought your first battle in fog, you'll know what I mean.

I like Japan a lot, I enjoy Risk, and chess, and I would like less micromanagement. I hope I like the game...

Given that statement, I can almost guarantee you'll enjoy it. While the other Total War games are somewhat more complex and have more options, Shogun's relative simplicity is part of its strength. It manages to be less micro-management intensive than its successors, while still possessing elegant gameplay and retaining the same overall depth.


If you have any other questions about the game, feel free to come visit the Sword Dojo. Look forward to seeing you there!

[Lord Chu]

Thanks for responding, I know my question/comment was a little jumbled up there. I'll try to be clearer next time. But, thanks for reading and responding!

I've heard both good and bad things about Shogun, so originally I thought it was just like Rome, just older. Now I realize that it's different while retaining the same Total War style. It sounds like a great game...I'll be sure to post my opinion after I get a chance to play it! I've been pretty busy studying and working on projects...you know the drill.

[Hound of Ulster]

try some of the RTW mods like Rome Total Realism, Rise of Persia, Europa Barborum, or Roma Surrectum.

[caravel]

One of the best things about STW/MTW is the decreased level of micromanagement involved. When playing an RTW campaign you're babysitting your armies and agents as they make their way across the map and continually building structures that for the most part do little more than offset squalor or improve public order. In fact every RTW campaign centres not around battles or warfare but micromaging settlements. MTW is much more "drag and drop" in it's approach. STW/MTW's approach is much simpler in that most buildings have an obvious role as a means to train units and any population loyalty boost is a bonus. STW/MTW also lacks the overcomplicated settlement statistics of the later games. This connects you more to the battles themselves instead of having the battles as an extra, almost optional, bit of eye candy, which is the case with later titles.

[Spongie]

Having recently moved to (original) MTW from STW, I would say that even MTW's level of micromanagement compared to STW's is straining my patience a bit, as it's taking the focus away from the battlefield. The smaller timeframe of STW is a plus point, too - for one thing, you're not tempted to wait 30 years to get a certain unit before you feel you can attack someone.

[Lord Chu]

Thanks for responding!

Shogun sounds like it's a little different from RTW...

But, I would like less micromanagement and better battles, so it sounds great.

[caravel]

I always felt with STW that the campaign map AI kept me on my toes. With MTW I sometimes feel as if I've got off lightly when not defending a province too well and risking the AI being silly and not invading. With STW you don't get this. If you fail to defend your provinces adequately expect to see the AI stacks sliding in.

[Parallel Pain]

I say if you have a lot of patience try EB

along with the AI formation mods.

That way the battles would be a lot more challenging.

And I've also ordered TW Eras so I can see what the older ones are like.

[Puzz3D]

Overall, however, Shogun is IMHO the better game; it's probably the best and "purest" expression of CA's Total War concept.

It's the best balanced of all the TW titles -- no unit is overpowered,...

The guns are overpowered. You have to go back to original Shogun (the one in the red box) to get the properly balanced guns. The kensai also becomes unbalanced because the combat system was not designed to handle single man units. The battlefield ninja run rediculously fast, and have 100 ammo. The heavy cav has too much armor. The naginata cav have the same combat power as warrior monks but are cheaper. The original game had none of those units, and the programmer who designed the original battle system, battle AI and balanced the units did not work on the Mongol Expansion which introduced all these imbalanced units. The reputation of Shogun being the best balanced of the TW series was built upon the original version in the bright red box; not the one in the Eras Collection or the one called Warlords Edition or the one called Shogun Gold Edition which all include the Mongol Invasion alterations to the game. The original version also has the most difficult campaign because the AI clans have no limit on the money they can spend, and units take twice as long to train.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

Welcome to the Org, Lord Chu!



While I play and enjoy MTW more, that's mostly because of the time period. Overall, however, Shogun is IMHO the better game; it's probably the best and "purest" expression of CA's Total War concept.

It's the best balanced of all the TW titles -- no unit is overpowered, and every unit remains useful, even into the latter stages of the game. Some clans are easier to play as then others, but it's very possible to win with all of them. The AI -- while not without its flaws -- is generally cunning and ruthless, both on & off the battlefield.

Perhaps the game's biggest draw, however, is its atmosphere. I've been playing PC strategy games for over 10 years now, and most of them don't even begin to approach the sense of immersion I experience when playing STW. The original Sengoku Jidai-period artwork, the assassination movies that keep you straining with tension, the Throne Room advisor, the haunting music & soundtrack (both during combat and on the campaign map), the sounds, and the visuals all combine together in a way that makes you really *feel* like you're a Japanese daimyo in the middle of feudal Japan.

Trust me -- after you've fought your first battle in fog, you'll know what I mean.

Wow, you just made STW really sound like the best TW ever made... I might get it..

BTW Welcome Lord Chu!

[Parallel Pain]

Except of course I can't find the original version.

The unit stats I can mod. What about the campaign thing?

[Martok]

The guns are overpowered. You have to go back to original Shogun (the one in the red box) to get the properly balanced guns.

[SNIP]

The reputation of Shogun being the best balanced of the TW series was built upon the original version in the bright red box; not the one in the Eras Collection or the one called Warlords Edition or the one called Shogun Gold Edition which all include the Mongol Invasion alterations to the game. The original version also has the most difficult campaign because the AI clans have no limit on the money they can spend, and units take twice as long to train.

True enough. Indeed, I myself am back to playing the original red box version now (which I was fortunate/smart enough to have kept) partially because of that.

That said, however, the Gold/Eras/Warlords Edition of Shogun is still better balanced than the other 3 main Total War titles, even with the overpowered guns & new units added in the Mongol Invasion expansion. I do not (and never will) claim that it's *perfectly* balanced in any case....only the most so.

Wow, you just made STW really sound like the best TW ever made... I might get it..

Heh. Well I certainly think you'd be doing yourself a favor if you did pick it up, but then I can hardly claim to have an unbiased opinion on the matter.

Of course, Shogun isn't perfect. The game does have some real flaws in it -- for example, reinforcements appear in strange places on the battle map, and Geishas are overpowered even in the vanilla game -- but these are still only minor irritants, and do little to detract from the playing experience as a whole. If you want to know what Total War is *truly* all about, and/or you're curious to know what it's like to live in every epic samurai movie ever made, then you owe it to yourself to try out STW.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

Heh. Well I certainly think you'd be doing yourself a favor if you did pick it up, but then I can hardly claim to have an unbiased opinion on the matter.

Of course, Shogun isn't perfect. The game does have some real flaws in it -- for example, reinforcements appear in strange places on the battle map, and Geishas are overpowered even in the vanilla game -- but these are still only minor irritants, and do little to detract from the playing experience as a whole. If you want to know what Total War is *truly* all about, and/or you're curious to know what it's like to live in every epic samurai movie ever made, then you owe it to yourself to try out STW.

Alright, convinced me even more, and I thought MTW was the king!

[8Koala]

If you are getting bored with single player, try multiplayer on for size. The level of competition is much higher and there is no better thrill than fighting a human opponent :D But if you just like campaigning then Shogun is quite fun too. I think I saw it for five dollars somewhere with four other games in a package, so if you find it what's the harm in trying? :D I liked Medieval (original) more, so give that a try too ;)

[Lord Chu]

Thanks for all the advice. I've been playing Shogun recently and I do enjoy it. Still getting the hang of the campaign map and everything but...I like the game.