Gated communitys

[LittleGrizzly]

Had a little look on Google and no luck but anyway onto my point.

The other day me and few friends on our way somewhere in the car when we started talking about gated communitys, i thought they meant estates with walls around them and secrurity gates ect. but no, they were on about buying thier own bit of land and declaring it a province (exact words) and this would enable them to make thier own rules, of course killing people and things like that would still be illegal, but because we own this gated community we can do things like smoke drugs legally.

I thought they were talking crap myself but they all seemed so convinced they were right, has anyone heard of this ?

[ICantSpellDawg]

Where do you live?

[LittleGrizzly]

Good point, Wales UK

but can this be done anywhere ?

it is something i haven't heard of before, i now some things are legal in your own home that aren't in public, nudity ect. but to make your own 'province' and to make up rules for it ?

[Vladimir]

Join the military. Gates, guards, and housing for free!

[Fragony]

I believe they did something like that in Christiana, Denmark. It's sort of a hippy enclave.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I don't think it would fly in the U.S. at all. We fought a war because of that. In fact, the only time a state seceded from another state was West Virginia right before the civil War. Counties are also very difficult to switch. You could apply for a township, but it isn't likely and wouldn't mean much at all because State and Federal laws trump local "custom".

You are better off starting a religion if you want to smoke chiba and marry a bunch of ladies.

[xemitg]

Can't you pretty much do whatever you want on your own property anyways? I mean short of killing somebody. Nobody cares what you do as long as you don't bother your neighbors. If you cause too much commotion, I don't think it matters if you are an independent nation or not; cops will bust down your door.

[Kralizec]

I believe they did something like that in Christiana, Denmark. It's sort of a hippy enclave.

Christiana. As far as I know it's just a squatter colony, though.

[Fragony]

Christiana. As far as I know it's just a squatter colony, though.

No it has a form of half-independance, not as hardcore as what grizzly brings up but there are some differences with the national laws.

[Mooks]

[QUOTE=xemitg]Can't you pretty much do whatever you want on your own property anyways? I mean short of killing somebody. Nobody cares what you do as long as you don't bother your neighbors. QUOTE]


If that was true, then the prisons would be filled with a lot less druggies. (at least in the US)

[LittleGrizzly]

I don't think it would fly in the U.S. at all. We fought a war because of that. In fact, the only time a state seceded from another state was West Virginia right before the civil War. Counties are also very difficult to switch. You could apply for a township, but it isn't likely and wouldn't mean much at all because State and Federal laws trump local "custom".


I basically brought this up (excluding west virginia) in my argument but they seemed to think being our own town or community meant we could trump national law in matters of personal nature (e.g drugs seatbelts)

thanks for answers, was pretty sure i was right..

[HoreTore]

No it has a form of half-independance, not as hardcore as what grizzly brings up but there are some differences with the national laws.

Some wiki info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania

As for the OT, it looks like you'll need to find an abandoned military base and break in

[TinCow]

In most areas of the law (in the US), Federal law trumps State or Local law. This is why you can be arrested for using medical marijuana in California, even if you have a prescription for it. California has legalized marijuana use for medicinal purposes, but Federal law still prohibits it. The DEA regularly raids and prosecutes Californian medical marijuana providers, even though they are licensed and regulated by the State.

About the best you can do is to work within the laws that are reserved exclusively for the States. These are generally restricted to social issues and things necessary for local governance. Even then you have to do it at the State level, as State law trumps Local law. There is no possible way to create your own 'community' in the US that is free from State or Federal law... unless you're a Native American, and even they have a lot of Federal oversight.

As for cops not bothering you if you keep to your own property... that depends on the policies of your local police department. That kind of attitude generally applies more in rural areas than urban ones.

[LittleGrizzly]

In most areas of the law (in the US), Federal law trumps State or Local law. This is why you can be arrested for using medical marijuana in California, even if you have a prescription for it. California has legalized marijuana use for medicinal purposes, but Federal law still prohibits it. The DEA regularly raids and prosecutes Californian medical marijuana providers, even though they are licensed and regulated by the State.

This sounds like a good example to bring up, Im pretty sure its just going to revert back to, 'yes you can' 'no you cant' ect. though.

[Quirinus]

Wait a minute, didn't Walt Disney set up the River Creek Improvement District in Florida? It is basically a district where the Disney corporation has the last word. I assume that's what the OP was referring to.

[TinCow]

I don't know anything about the "River Creek Improvement District" but it makes sense to me. There's no reason a corporation cannot buy a section of land and be given the authority (by the State and/or County) to regulate that property as they see fit. However, the ability of the corporation to regulate that property is still limited by the scope of State and Federal law. There is no possible way for them to change, for example, the (general) criminal laws that apply in their area. Murder is a crime under both Federal and State law. There is no place under US jurisdiction where murder is not a crime. Since Federal and State laws regulate almost every important aspect of life, about the most 'freedom' you would be able to get out of such a community would be control over your own local finances, local taxation, local statutory laws, and possibly some aspects of 'bigger' things like building codes, depending on the laws of the State you are in.

Even if you were to somehow able to get the State to grant you independence, so that you are not covered by State law, you would still be covered by Federal law. Federal law covers all US territory, from the actual USA itself, to territories, possessions, embassy property, and some cemeteries on foreign soil. The only places where Federal law has limited jurisdiction are US military bases, but even that is hazy at the moment. The issue of Federal jurisdiction over military bases is a major part of the Guantanamo controversy.

[TevashSzat]

Maybe you can do this if you buy some remote island and build an estate on it?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Maybe you can do this if you buy some remote island and build an estate on it?

If the remote island is unclaimed, I don't think there's any reason you can't proclaim your own nation. If you can offer something to a major country or organization that's valuable, you could even get your country internationally recognized.

[Quirinus]

I don't know anything about the "River Creek Improvement District" but it makes sense to me. There's no reason a corporation cannot buy a section of land and be given the authority (by the State and/or County) to regulate that property as they see fit. However, the ability of the corporation to regulate that property is still limited by the scope of State and Federal law. There is no possible way for them to change, for example, the (general) criminal laws that apply in their area. Murder is a crime under both Federal and State law. There is no place under US jurisdiction where murder is not a crime. Since Federal and State laws regulate almost every important aspect of life, about the most 'freedom' you would be able to get out of such a community would be control over your own local finances, local taxation, local statutory laws, and possibly some aspects of 'bigger' things like building codes, depending on the laws of the State you are in.

Even if you were to somehow able to get the State to grant you independence, so that you are not covered by State law, you would still be covered by Federal law. Federal law covers all US territory, from the actual USA itself, to territories, possessions, embassy property, and some cemeteries on foreign soil. The only places where Federal law has limited jurisdiction are US military bases, but even that is hazy at the moment. The issue of Federal jurisdiction over military bases is a major part of the Guantanamo controversy.

Whoops. It's actually called the Reedy Creek Improvement District. Well, here is what Wikipedia says about it:

The Improvement District has far-reaching powers. Through the District, Disney could construct almost anything within its borders, including a nuclear power plant (which it never built, opting instead for a more traditional plant that supplements power from outside of the District). The District, as with any municipal corporation, can issue tax-free bonds for internal improvements. [....] In addition to the power of eminent domain outside the District, the one other power that the District was given (that it would not have had if it were simply the two Cities) was an exemption to state zoning and land use laws.

[HoreTore]

If the remote island is unclaimed, I don't think there's any reason you can't proclaim your own nation. If you can offer something to a major country or organization that's valuable, you could even get your country internationally recognized.

Are there any islands left who aren't claimed though? Even the arctic is claimed these days...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Are there any islands left who aren't claimed though? Even the arctic is claimed these days...

There has to be something in the Pacific.

[KukriKhan]

There has to be something in the Pacific.

Not for Long, if global warming is true. Better get your bids in now.

It wouldn't take much of a rise in sea level to wash away island nations such as the Maldives in the Indian Ocean. Eighty percent of the Maldives are less than one meter above sea level. Several Pacific islands have already disappeared.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Not for Long, if global warming is true. Better get your bids in now.

We can do it like in Island, by Thomas Perry - just throw concrete, rock, and sand on top until it holds and increases in height.

[Quirinus]

.....everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England.

~:D