Marian reforms

[Gaivs]

Upload your save in the Tech help thread.

[DVX PRAVVS OCCISOR]

Hello Cocus,

I have been lurking in these forums for over a year but this requires a reply so here goes.

Did one of the reform marker spams take place during your campaign, specifically the Carthage Reform marker spam? If so this might help...if not, then I've wasted my time and will be returning to my hole.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I had that very same problem and just fixed it today. After waiting patiently until 101-100 BCE for the Marian Reforms, I ran into a persistent CTD whenever they were about to kick in. Like you, I met all the requirements along with a Marius wanabe. Even when I scripted the reforms I still got a CTD when they were about to kick in after the Eleutheroi turn. I did not have this problem in previous releases.

After forty-eight hours of experimentation I found the culprit. Early in my campaign I noticed the Carthage Reform spam was taking place. I downloaded the fix and my game continued undisturbed for another hundred years, so I figured it was case closed. The cities I took from Carthage were full of reform markers and looked ugly but everything worked fine...until time for the Marians. I isolated the problem by gifting those cities and then the reforms activated properly with no CTD. As further proof, when I scripted the reforms to take place in a saved game I had that pre-dated the Carthage reform marker spam, the Marians kicked in properly.

Obviously I wanted to keep the Res Publica growing historically so gifting is not a solution.

I opened the export_descr_buildings file, looked up Reform 2 (the one that affects Carthage), changed "building hinterland_reforms2" to "building_reforms2", reloaded my game and my cities were clear and the Marians triggered properly with no CTD.

Have no fear, the Carthage reform marker reappears after a turn as well as the other faction's markers affected by reforms2 (and if you have the fix it does not spam again). Afterwards you can change the building_desc back to hinterland. Problem solved and I have had no problems since.

Now my professional legionnaires are on the warpath.

Hope this helps.

ROMA INVICTA

[Cocus]

Hi!! First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to write such a detailed response.

I've been experimenting a little bit too and pretty much came to the same conclusion: Carthage reform spam IS the culprit. I tried but wasn't able to replicate your solution though. Maybe I wasn't editing exactly what was needed, but the game would crash and wouldn't even load after that.

So, I got back to script editing and almost came to the conclusion that the script crashed when it tried to build new MICs or maybe place the markers in some trouble cities affected by spam. By some more experimenting with old save games I managed to discover that the crash was also somehow related with the number of buildings in those settlements, so.. I just destroyed some and... reforms kicked in!!! Not the most elegant or tidy solution but saves me like 130+ years of play

[DVX PRAVVS OCCISOR]

Hello Cocus,

Sounds good. Too bad about the buildings you had to destroy. Hopefully they weren't important ones for crowd control.

The Bug Fix provided for the Carthage Reform marker spam unfortunately only stops the spam and does not get rid of the excess markers. Like you said, the excess markers are taking up building slots and conflicting with the Marian Reforms. I am glad you found a work around. However, you might need to do it again come time for the Augustan Reforms.

If your game is patched then in subsequent campaigns it should not be an issue but I was determined to save my first true 1.0 campaign for much the same reasons as you.

I don't think many people have run into this because it takes place so much later in the game (and only with the Romani), and if there is no reform spam in the first place, then it does not occur at all.

Let me know how your campaign turns out, the AI doesn't even begin to put up a decent fight until late in the game and now you have professionals.

Have fun.

[Papal Knight]

schnikies, I have that Carthage Reform Marker spammage as well. saw it in Libeo and I think one other city in sicily. thankfull, I have about 20 years until I might run into a problem with it. very glad I spotted this thread. who would have known such an obscure thing could feck up such a major part of the game!!

[caeser44]

wouldn't one way to avoid all of that be to just destroy carthage before the marian reforms?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Not neccesarily: you need to do it before the Q's get their reforms. But since it's fixed with the other fixes... For a new campaign, fully updated with all the fixes available - kinda moot point.

[Cocus]

I have that Carthage Reform Marker spammage as well. saw it in Libeo and I think one other city in sicily. thankfull, I have about 20 years until I might run into a problem with it.

Well, you really never know how much time you have. In my case, the problem presented itself with the Marian reforms because the script places buildings in a lot of settlements and that's where the problem is: the marker spam conflicts with the construction of some buildings and apparently roman markers too. Depending on the extent of the spammage and the type and number of buildings in the settlement you might have a problem or not. Same type of crash could happen when you finish construction of certain types of buildings too.

[Papal Knight]

uh-oh, that is not good. I have 6 carthage reform markers spamming a whole row of the building thingy in Lilibeo. that can't be good. I wonder what I can do, short of starting over and using the fix in the permanent fixes list.

I am deep into my Romani campaign, and it's 188 BC (yeah, that's BC, and not BCE, whatever that PC nonsense means. heh. ), and at this point starting over would be a morale failure, and the leader would rout. maybe I will have to just keep checking the threshholds for the Marian reforms and see when, maybe, I should delete some buildings in Lilibeo like the guy above said he did.

I'm lucky I guess, in that I only have one city in my possession that used to be a carthaginian city. can't imagine the headache if I had more!!

I am now very sorry I missed it, and should have implemented all the fixes before I started. live and learn I guess....

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Hello Cocus,

Sounds good. Too bad about the buildings you had to destroy. Hopefully they weren't important ones for crowd control.

The Bug Fix provided for the Carthage Reform marker spam unfortunately only stops the spam and does not get rid of the excess markers. Like you said, the excess markers are taking up building slots and conflicting with the Marian Reforms. I am glad you found a work around. However, you might need to do it again come time for the Augustan Reforms.

If your game is patched then in subsequent campaigns it should not be an issue but I was determined to save my first true 1.0 campaign for much the same reasons as you.

I don't think many people have run into this because it takes place so much later in the game (and only with the Romani), and if there is no reform spam in the first place, then it does not occur at all.

Let me know how your campaign turns out, the AI doesn't even begin to put up a decent fight until late in the game and now you have professionals.

Have fun.

Having read this this thread before, I took someone's advice to wipe out Carthage before the Carthage Reform markers appeared, unfortunately I was 1 move away from their last two cities(in the desert), when the year changed to 14AD and their reform markers appeared, worried they would cause a problem to my upcoming Marian reforms, I reloaded my previous save, and without activating the script, quickly stormed their last two cities, then activated the script again. All seems well, it's 196 AD, has this course of action saved me from not getting the reforms???

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You played to 196AD?

[Papal Knight]

gave up on mine. though, for the moment in time way back, the fixes here did work without a hitch.

however, I found it totally rediculous to have to wait until you get 90 provinces for the Marian reforms to kick in; game's over by then. no challenge remaining after the human player holds 90 provinces. silly.

likewise, jumping through all the silly hoops to bring the reforms on with a general. gaining the popularis trait, losing it for no particular reason. gah. became a micro-managment distraction. shame really, in an otherwise excellent mod.

further logical reason for a change in that regard would be to strengthen the AI Romani. Give them the reforms on a strictly historical time basis; especially so for the AI Romani. Game's pretty pointless without an expanding Romani. "weeeeeeeeee, let me expand this fantasy barbarian empire, and pretend it could have actually had some relevance to (an in) history". not.

maddening. I moved on.

[Papal Knight]

You played to 196AD?

sounds to me as if he repeatedly failed to fire up the script before continuing after a save & game load. the 14 AD thingy is a sign of that, IMO.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

You played to 196AD?

Woops sorry, I meant 196BC!

Papal Knight,
I don't think the 14AD thingy is from failing to activate the script, I very, very rarely forget to do so, and that's out of 6 different current campaigns.

So does anyone know if I will be alright, after running deliberately without the script for 2 turns, to wipeout Carthage and it's reform errors?