Marian reforms

[Cocus]

Hi, I'm new here. Tried the faqs, searched the forums but can't seem to find an answer, so I thought I'd ask....

I fulfilled all the requirements for the Marian reforms (I think?):

Script is activated
The year is 140 BC
I have like 60 settlements.
I've fought well over 500 battles.
Have latifundia in all italian provinces.
Have a character Sharp/Charismatic/Vigorous, popularis, ex consul, 4 in command, 10 in influence.. he even got the reformator trait like a year ago but, still... no reform.

So.. the question is... Am i missing something? Is it instantaneous (the reform) once the conditions are met? Do I have to do or wait for something else?

Any help would be appreciated!!

[anubis88]

did you upgrade your MIC? that's my bes guess.
seriously i dunno what could be wrong. Never played a campaign that long

[Cocus]

First thing I tried... MICs were maxed so I tore one down and rebuilt it (with process_cq). Then I read here that Marian reform doesn't work like Polybian, that the script destroys Polybian MICs or something like that, but I'm still getting Polybian units in the recruitment options.

[LorDBulA]

Then I read here that Marian reform doesn't work like Polybian,

Nope they dont work in the same way. For marian you get new building complex.

[Cocus]

Ok, I've been trying a couple things now but I think I hit a bug here. First off, since the character got the reformator trait I get a CTD right after the eleutheroi turn ends and I can't start a new turn. Strange thing is... if I reload the game, then I CAN get to the next turn, but with no reform. Then if I continue playing to the next turn I get the same crash again in the same spot, then I reload and advance and so on and on but no reform whatsoever

I also tried forcing the reform, edited the script, reduced the number of settlements required and now I always get the CTD no matter if I reload or not. So I guess I'm stuck here. Any help?

[Gaivs]

Upload your save in the Tech help thread.

[DVX PRAVVS OCCISOR]

Hello Cocus,

I have been lurking in these forums for over a year but this requires a reply so here goes.

Did one of the reform marker spams take place during your campaign, specifically the Carthage Reform marker spam? If so this might help...if not, then I've wasted my time and will be returning to my hole.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I had that very same problem and just fixed it today. After waiting patiently until 101-100 BCE for the Marian Reforms, I ran into a persistent CTD whenever they were about to kick in. Like you, I met all the requirements along with a Marius wanabe. Even when I scripted the reforms I still got a CTD when they were about to kick in after the Eleutheroi turn. I did not have this problem in previous releases.

After forty-eight hours of experimentation I found the culprit. Early in my campaign I noticed the Carthage Reform spam was taking place. I downloaded the fix and my game continued undisturbed for another hundred years, so I figured it was case closed. The cities I took from Carthage were full of reform markers and looked ugly but everything worked fine...until time for the Marians. I isolated the problem by gifting those cities and then the reforms activated properly with no CTD. As further proof, when I scripted the reforms to take place in a saved game I had that pre-dated the Carthage reform marker spam, the Marians kicked in properly.

Obviously I wanted to keep the Res Publica growing historically so gifting is not a solution.

I opened the export_descr_buildings file, looked up Reform 2 (the one that affects Carthage), changed "building hinterland_reforms2" to "building_reforms2", reloaded my game and my cities were clear and the Marians triggered properly with no CTD.

Have no fear, the Carthage reform marker reappears after a turn as well as the other faction's markers affected by reforms2 (and if you have the fix it does not spam again). Afterwards you can change the building_desc back to hinterland. Problem solved and I have had no problems since.

Now my professional legionnaires are on the warpath.

Hope this helps.

ROMA INVICTA

[Cocus]

Hi!! First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to write such a detailed response.

I've been experimenting a little bit too and pretty much came to the same conclusion: Carthage reform spam IS the culprit. I tried but wasn't able to replicate your solution though. Maybe I wasn't editing exactly what was needed, but the game would crash and wouldn't even load after that.

So, I got back to script editing and almost came to the conclusion that the script crashed when it tried to build new MICs or maybe place the markers in some trouble cities affected by spam. By some more experimenting with old save games I managed to discover that the crash was also somehow related with the number of buildings in those settlements, so.. I just destroyed some and... reforms kicked in!!! Not the most elegant or tidy solution but saves me like 130+ years of play

[DVX PRAVVS OCCISOR]

Hello Cocus,

Sounds good. Too bad about the buildings you had to destroy. Hopefully they weren't important ones for crowd control.

The Bug Fix provided for the Carthage Reform marker spam unfortunately only stops the spam and does not get rid of the excess markers. Like you said, the excess markers are taking up building slots and conflicting with the Marian Reforms. I am glad you found a work around. However, you might need to do it again come time for the Augustan Reforms.

If your game is patched then in subsequent campaigns it should not be an issue but I was determined to save my first true 1.0 campaign for much the same reasons as you.

I don't think many people have run into this because it takes place so much later in the game (and only with the Romani), and if there is no reform spam in the first place, then it does not occur at all.

Let me know how your campaign turns out, the AI doesn't even begin to put up a decent fight until late in the game and now you have professionals.

Have fun.

[Papal Knight]

schnikies, I have that Carthage Reform Marker spammage as well. saw it in Libeo and I think one other city in sicily. thankfull, I have about 20 years until I might run into a problem with it. very glad I spotted this thread. who would have known such an obscure thing could feck up such a major part of the game!!

[caeser44]

wouldn't one way to avoid all of that be to just destroy carthage before the marian reforms?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Not neccesarily: you need to do it before the Q's get their reforms. But since it's fixed with the other fixes... For a new campaign, fully updated with all the fixes available - kinda moot point.

[Papal Knight]

aside from the fix mentoned above, is there another one available? sorry if it's a dumb question, but it's just not that clear to me. thanks in advance....

[Papal Knight]

nevermind, I found it.

[Cocus]

I have that Carthage Reform Marker spammage as well. saw it in Libeo and I think one other city in sicily. thankfull, I have about 20 years until I might run into a problem with it.

Well, you really never know how much time you have. In my case, the problem presented itself with the Marian reforms because the script places buildings in a lot of settlements and that's where the problem is: the marker spam conflicts with the construction of some buildings and apparently roman markers too. Depending on the extent of the spammage and the type and number of buildings in the settlement you might have a problem or not. Same type of crash could happen when you finish construction of certain types of buildings too.

[Papal Knight]

uh-oh, that is not good. I have 6 carthage reform markers spamming a whole row of the building thingy in Lilibeo. that can't be good. I wonder what I can do, short of starting over and using the fix in the permanent fixes list.

I am deep into my Romani campaign, and it's 188 BC (yeah, that's BC, and not BCE, whatever that PC nonsense means. heh. ), and at this point starting over would be a morale failure, and the leader would rout. maybe I will have to just keep checking the threshholds for the Marian reforms and see when, maybe, I should delete some buildings in Lilibeo like the guy above said he did.

I'm lucky I guess, in that I only have one city in my possession that used to be a carthaginian city. can't imagine the headache if I had more!!

I am now very sorry I missed it, and should have implemented all the fixes before I started. live and learn I guess....

[DVX PRAVVS OCCISOR]

Hello Papal Knight,

(I've gone over a year without posting and now I'm up to three...weird, I must put a stop to this )

If you are seeing the Carthage Reform marker spam in Lilibeo then expect to find it in other Carthaginian cities that you will eventually need to conquer to complete the Romani campaign objectives. Obviously starting over is not a suitable solution since, like Cocus and myself you have invested a lot of time in your game. Eventually when you do play your next campaign this will not be an issue.

What worked for me was the following. I cannot guarantee it will work for you but it is worth a shot. Obviously I am assuming that you have now downloaded and installed the patch to prevent the spam from continuing.

Make an extra campaign save so that you can experiment.

Now, access your EB Data folder and look for the file named export_descr_buildings.

Make a backup copy of this file and store it in a safe place in case you are unfamiliar or uncomfortable making changes and later undoing those changes.

Once you open the export_descr_buildings file, use the "find" tool or manually scroll down to the section entitled Reform 2.

The section should look like this:


Reform 2
;
; Placed by script at conquest or globally per faction's current regions upon new reform.
; reforms2_feeder: never used
; cataphract: Pahlavan cataphract
; sweboz1: starting era
; sweboz2: reform era
; carthage2: late era
; wgreek1: starting era (proposed)
; wgreek2: late era (proposed)
; egreek1: starting era (proposed)
; egreek2: late era (proposed)
;
building hinterland_reforms2
{
levels reforms2_feeder cataphract sweboz1 sweboz2 carthage1 wgreek1 wgreek2 egreek1 egreek2
{
reforms2_feeder requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
{
capability
{
}
construction 1
cost 0
settlement_min town
upgrades
{
cataphract
sweboz1
sweboz2
carthage1
wgreek1
wgreek2
egreek1
egreek2
}

Edit the line (I displayed this line in red above):

building hinterland_reforms 2 and remove "hinterland_"

It should now look like this:

Reform 2
;
; Placed by script at conquest or globally per faction's current regions upon new reform.
; reforms2_feeder: never used
; cataphract: Pahlavan cataphract
; sweboz1: starting era
; sweboz2: reform era
; carthage2: late era
; wgreek1: starting era (proposed)
; wgreek2: late era (proposed)
; egreek1: starting era (proposed)
; egreek2: late era (proposed)
;
building reforms2
{
levels reforms2_feeder cataphract sweboz1 sweboz2 carthage1 wgreek1 wgreek2 egreek1 egreek2
{
reforms2_feeder requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
{
capability
{
}
construction 1
cost 0
settlement_min town
upgrades
{
cataphract
sweboz1
sweboz2
carthage1
wgreek1
wgreek2
egreek1
egreek2
}

After doing this exit the file and save the changes. Reload your EB game. Your former Carthaginian cities should appear clean without any Carthage Reform markers.

Of course, Reform 2 affects more than just Carthage and you don't want to sabotage the other AI factions. No worries. My experience was that the very next turn, the Reform markers reappeared (but only one per city as was intended...and with the reform fix they will not re-spam).

After the next turn or so, when the reform marker reappears, you can replace the edited line "building reforms2" with the original "building hinterland_reforms 2" so that the markers are indestructible again.

I had no trouble whatsoever with this solution. However, if you find it too complicated or would rather not edit files then I would go with Cocus's solution of destroying non-critical buildings, it will get you through your campaign.

I hope this helps and good luck.

On a side note, since I never made an introduction post, let me say that I find that this is the most beautiful and most stable version of EB ever. It is incredible in its scope and magnitude. I am eternally grateful for the hard work of the EB staff in producing not only a spectacular mod, but a powerful historical simulator. I stopped buying TW games ever since I discovered EB and the way I see it, I will not need to purchase another one until the team completes EB II. Congrats guys--keep up the great work.

[Papal Knight]

wow, I am at loss for words as to how helpful and comprehensive that response was. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KhaziOfKalabara]

Someone please upgrade DVX PRAVVS OCCISOR to full member!

[Centurion Crastinus]

[QUOTE=DVX PRAVVS OCCISOR]Hello Papal Knight,



Obviously I am assuming that you have now downloaded and installed the patch to prevent the spam from continuing.



Where can I find the patch? I have browsed the unofficial mods page, but I didn't look too far back.

[Centurion Crastinus]

Where can I find the carthaginian reform spamming patch? I have browsed the unofficial mods page, but I didn't look too far back.

[Papal Knight]

Where can I find the carthaginian reform spamming patch? I have browsed the unofficial mods page, but I didn't look too far back.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93820

[Centurion Crastinus]

Thank you sir.

[Papal Knight]

wowsa! what DVX PRAVVS suggested above worked like a charm for me! wOOt!!!! I get to continue the campaign. sa-weet!! thanks man!!!!

[bovi]

This solution for reform marker spam is now linked to in the 1.0 fixes thread .

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Hello Cocus,

Sounds good. Too bad about the buildings you had to destroy. Hopefully they weren't important ones for crowd control.

The Bug Fix provided for the Carthage Reform marker spam unfortunately only stops the spam and does not get rid of the excess markers. Like you said, the excess markers are taking up building slots and conflicting with the Marian Reforms. I am glad you found a work around. However, you might need to do it again come time for the Augustan Reforms.

If your game is patched then in subsequent campaigns it should not be an issue but I was determined to save my first true 1.0 campaign for much the same reasons as you.

I don't think many people have run into this because it takes place so much later in the game (and only with the Romani), and if there is no reform spam in the first place, then it does not occur at all.

Let me know how your campaign turns out, the AI doesn't even begin to put up a decent fight until late in the game and now you have professionals.

Have fun.

Having read this this thread before, I took someone's advice to wipe out Carthage before the Carthage Reform markers appeared, unfortunately I was 1 move away from their last two cities(in the desert), when the year changed to 14AD and their reform markers appeared, worried they would cause a problem to my upcoming Marian reforms, I reloaded my previous save, and without activating the script, quickly stormed their last two cities, then activated the script again. All seems well, it's 196 AD, has this course of action saved me from not getting the reforms???

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You played to 196AD?

[Papal Knight]

gave up on mine. though, for the moment in time way back, the fixes here did work without a hitch.

however, I found it totally rediculous to have to wait until you get 90 provinces for the Marian reforms to kick in; game's over by then. no challenge remaining after the human player holds 90 provinces. silly.

likewise, jumping through all the silly hoops to bring the reforms on with a general. gaining the popularis trait, losing it for no particular reason. gah. became a micro-managment distraction. shame really, in an otherwise excellent mod.

further logical reason for a change in that regard would be to strengthen the AI Romani. Give them the reforms on a strictly historical time basis; especially so for the AI Romani. Game's pretty pointless without an expanding Romani. "weeeeeeeeee, let me expand this fantasy barbarian empire, and pretend it could have actually had some relevance to (an in) history". not.

maddening. I moved on.

[Papal Knight]

You played to 196AD?

sounds to me as if he repeatedly failed to fire up the script before continuing after a save & game load. the 14 AD thingy is a sign of that, IMO.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

You played to 196AD?

Woops sorry, I meant 196BC!

Papal Knight,
I don't think the 14AD thingy is from failing to activate the script, I very, very rarely forget to do so, and that's out of 6 different current campaigns.

So does anyone know if I will be alright, after running deliberately without the script for 2 turns, to wipeout Carthage and it's reform errors?