Iraq: Round Two

[Fragony]

No. That ambush happened inside the borders of Turkey. This incident was what caused Turkey to start attacking PKK bases in Northern Iraq.

My bad. All the more reason to give Turkey some lattitude here imho. We all knew this could happen.

[KukriKhan]

My bad. All the more reason to give Turkey some lattitude here imho. We all knew this could happen.

How about the Iranians? Same latitude given? They've shelled and crossed their border with Iraq, too.

[Fragony]

How about the Iranians? Same latitude given? They've shelled and crossed their border with Iraq, too.

No idea what's going on there, but the PKK is a real threat to Turkey's stability and Turkey has the right to defend itselve. What are they supposed to do, let the PKK do their thing and just wave at them once they hopped the border?

[KukriKhan]

... and Turkey has the right to defend itselve. What are they supposed to do, let the PKK do their thing and just wave at them once they hopped the border?

No argument from me on either point. The failure of Iraq to control its borders is the problem, IMO.

Turkey is obviously fed-up with incursions into their territory, and Iran as well. Syria may feel similarly, though for different reasons (they're housing Iraqi refugees). I'm just saying that the slippery slope begins with looking the other way when Turkey invades. What objection to self-defense incursions by Iraq's neighbors can Iraq, or their occupiers/'protectors' the US-led coalition, have, if they (the neighbors) are fired on by Iraq residents/citizens, or overwhelmed with fleeing refugees?

None, I think. Maybe the solution is to declare the Iraq Kurd areas "The Independent Canton of Kurdistan", tell the Kurds: 'this is all of Kurdistan you get; future land-grab efforts will be seen as invasions and dealt with accordingly.'?

[Fragony]

I'm just saying that the slippery slope begins with looking the other way when Turkey invades.

I think the slippery slope is us saying do what we say, not what we do. We simply cannot condemn Turkey for doing this it would be unfair. The PKK is a much bigger threat to Turkey then Saddam ever was to us, and you can hardly blame Iran or Syria for not desiring a stable Iraq.

[Tribesman]

you can hardly blame Iran or Syria for not desiring a stable Iraq.

Iran and Syria do desire a stable Iraq , its just that they desire it on their terms and as their friends , notice how the Iranian backed militias extended their ceasfire in order to get the international oil investment in their region .

[Fragony]

I don't know makes more sense that they would frustrate them.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

How about the Iranians? Same latitude given? They've shelled and crossed their border with Iraq, too.

To my knowledge, Kurdish forces have also been working against Iranian forces in Northern Iraq on occasion. It seems to me to be just as much Iran's right as Turkey's.

[KukriKhan]

That's what I'm saying, mate. Kurd separatist incursions into neighboring countries can encourage the gobbling up of Iraq into 'greater Turkey', 'greater Iran', 'greater Syria', 'greater Saudi Arabia', and 'greater Kuwait', all in the interests of (or with the excuse of) their own security. All because neither Iraq nor the coalition can or will rein in its residents and secure its border.

Pretty soon = 'Lesser Iraqistan' exists, populated by coalition military subcontractors and Exxon Oil executives. Problem solved?

[LeftEyeNine]

Taking roots from Kukri-sensei 's point, I have to say that we need to extend the Iraqi border towards the plains. Because it's just impossible to control incursions as long as the border follows routes over the mountains.

[Fragony]

To my knowledge, Kurdish forces have also been working against Iranian forces in Northern Iraq on occasion. It seems to me to be just as much Iran's right as Turkey's.

Says who? Seems very very unlikely to me, Turkey is big enough a bird for now, and the PKK would take on Iran? Me = not buying.

[LeftEyeNine]

Says who? Seems very very unlikely to me, Turkey is big enough a bird for now, and the PKK would take on Iran? Me = not buying.

It's PEJAK for the Iranian side of it, not PKK. Although I'm not really knowledgable about the severity of the actions of PEJAK in Iran, the same story more or less goes for Iran as well and therefore Iran may try to evaluate this "chance" as well.

[KukriKhan]

Says who? Seems very very unlikely to me, Turkey is big enough a bird for now, and the PKK would take on Iran? Me = not buying.

Says Reuters in my LINK in post #25 previous page.

Iranian forces have also often clashed in Iraqi border areas with rebels from the Party of Free Life of Kurdistan (PJAK), an offshoot of the PKK and which analysts say has bases in northeastern Iraq from where they operate against Iran.

-edit-

Oops, LEN got it. :)

[Fragony]

Says Reuters in my LINK in post #25 previous page.

Why would Iran take over places that could work against them, in the end whatever governs Iraq will be something that has western interests in mind. They would do better by just making a mess out of it, isn't like they have nothing going on there at home. And the Kurds don't need Iran on top of it, I call bull.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

And the Kurds don't need Iran on top of it, I call bull.

The Kurds claim that they should own the Kurdistan Province in Iran, and are fighting to get it.