Iraq: Round Two

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

How about the Iranians? Same latitude given? They've shelled and crossed their border with Iraq, too.

To my knowledge, Kurdish forces have also been working against Iranian forces in Northern Iraq on occasion. It seems to me to be just as much Iran's right as Turkey's.

[KukriKhan]

That's what I'm saying, mate. Kurd separatist incursions into neighboring countries can encourage the gobbling up of Iraq into 'greater Turkey', 'greater Iran', 'greater Syria', 'greater Saudi Arabia', and 'greater Kuwait', all in the interests of (or with the excuse of) their own security. All because neither Iraq nor the coalition can or will rein in its residents and secure its border.

Pretty soon = 'Lesser Iraqistan' exists, populated by coalition military subcontractors and Exxon Oil executives. Problem solved?

[LeftEyeNine]

Taking roots from Kukri-sensei 's point, I have to say that we need to extend the Iraqi border towards the plains. Because it's just impossible to control incursions as long as the border follows routes over the mountains.

[Fragony]

To my knowledge, Kurdish forces have also been working against Iranian forces in Northern Iraq on occasion. It seems to me to be just as much Iran's right as Turkey's.

Says who? Seems very very unlikely to me, Turkey is big enough a bird for now, and the PKK would take on Iran? Me = not buying.

[LeftEyeNine]

Says who? Seems very very unlikely to me, Turkey is big enough a bird for now, and the PKK would take on Iran? Me = not buying.

It's PEJAK for the Iranian side of it, not PKK. Although I'm not really knowledgable about the severity of the actions of PEJAK in Iran, the same story more or less goes for Iran as well and therefore Iran may try to evaluate this "chance" as well.

[KukriKhan]

Says who? Seems very very unlikely to me, Turkey is big enough a bird for now, and the PKK would take on Iran? Me = not buying.

Says Reuters in my LINK in post #25 previous page.

Iranian forces have also often clashed in Iraqi border areas with rebels from the Party of Free Life of Kurdistan (PJAK), an offshoot of the PKK and which analysts say has bases in northeastern Iraq from where they operate against Iran.

-edit-

Oops, LEN got it. :)

[Fragony]

Says Reuters in my LINK in post #25 previous page.

Why would Iran take over places that could work against them, in the end whatever governs Iraq will be something that has western interests in mind. They would do better by just making a mess out of it, isn't like they have nothing going on there at home. And the Kurds don't need Iran on top of it, I call bull.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

And the Kurds don't need Iran on top of it, I call bull.

The Kurds claim that they should own the Kurdistan Province in Iran, and are fighting to get it.

[Fragony]

The Kurds claim that they should own the Kurdistan Province in Iran, and are fighting to get it.

If they are so stupid they wouldn't be a thread to anyone but they aren't that stupid. This is to Turkey what Palestina is to Israel, and Turkey nor Israel deserve a statue but common.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

If they are so stupid they wouldn't be a thread to anyone but they aren't that stupid.

Kurds are fighting in Northern Iran, and in the border regions. It's as much of an established fact as the Kurdish operations in Turkey have been.

[Innocentius]

So you can take the vast majority of terrorist groups in the world and declare that they are not terrorists then Innocentius .
BTW since Al-qaida wasn't in Iraq (apart from the American protected Kurdish areas) when Iraq was invaded what has Al-qaida got to do with it ?

Yes, pretty much. I just think it's interesting how eager the US is in condemning various militias as terrorists (where the word terrorist is synonym for evil anti-American child-eater) while the USA was founded by such terrorists.

al-Qaeda was just an example. You could replace it with any random terrorist organization if you'd prefer that.

[Tribesman]

Why would Iran take over places that could work against them, in the end whatever governs Iraq will be something that has western interests in mind. They would do better by just making a mess out of it, isn't like they have nothing going on there at home. And the Kurds don't need Iran on top of it, I call bull.

You really shouldn't call bull when you are clearly wrong Frag .
Think about it .
Much of Americas "reliable" information about what to do in Iraq was from a group working for the ******** .
Americas original prefered political leadership for Iraq turned out to have been working for the ******** all along .
The major parties that have done well in elections in Iraq are parties that are backed by the ********.
The major winner in those elections was acually formed by the ******** in **** .
One of the two major Kurdish seperatist parties , the one with more weapons and more troops , is backed by the ******** .
The relatively major player in the South who claims not to be backed by the ******** recieves arms and funding from the ******** and "spiritually" is obliged to follow the ******** Iraqi cleric .

Now go through that and see if those * can fit anything other than Iranian or Iran without turning the statements false .
If you cannot substitute another word then they are clearly true and you shouldn' have called bull .

A I said earlier Iran and Syria do desire a stable Iraq , its just that they desire it on their terms and as their friends

[Fragony]

Or it was a trap, I don't know

[Tribesman]

Or it was a trap, I don't know

It could be , lets see .
What did they get out of it ?

Taliban largely screwed and focused elsewhere...
Saddam gone...
America tied down...
America with a huge and growing debt...
Americas army strained...
Bush looking like the idiot that he is...
International consensus after 9/11 splintered...
Severe doubts over intelligence cliams on WMD development...
An increase in anti-western feeling throughout the region...
A new excuse to clamp down further on dissent at home...
A massive increase in the value of their commodities...
An opening for bigger legal and illegal trade...
Their friends in power in Iraq....
The oppertunity to kill their enemies in Iraq...
Wider regional alliances(including with states who quite frankly hate and distrust the mullahs in Iran)...
A nice training ground for the revolutionary guards and their apprentices....

The list could go on and on .
Perhaps it wasn't a trap, perhaps the Iranians just got really really unbelievably lucky .

[LeftEyeNine]

DING DING DING DING DING ! End of Round Two.

Turkey withdraws troops from northern Iraq

A statement by Turkey’s armed forces General Staff denied any foreign influence on the decision, which came a day after U.S President George W. Bush urged a swift end to offensive.

09:21 ET 29 Şubat 2008 Cuma

ANKARA - Turkey pulled its troops out of northern Iraq on Friday, ending a major offensive against PKK terrorists that Washington feared could spread conflict through the region.

A statement by Turkey’s armed forces General Staff denied any foreign influence on the decision, which came a day after U.S President George W. Bush urged a swift end to offensive.

“There was no question of completely liquidating the
terrorist organisation, but Turkey has shown the organisation
that northern Iraq is not a safe haven for them,” the General
Staff said.

Turkey sent thousands of soldiers into remote, mountainous
northern Iraq on Feb. 21 to crush terrorists of the PKK who use the region as a base for
attacks on Turkish territory.

“It was determined that the aims set at the start of the
operation had been achieved,” the General Staff said in a
statement. “Our units returned to their bases (in Turkey) on the
morning of Feb. 29.”

Announcing the withdrawal ahead of the General Staff, Iraqi
Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari told Reuters in Baghdad that
his government welcomed the move.

Turkey’s political and military leaders had pledged the
operation would continue for as long as necessary but U.S.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates, on a brief trip to Ankara on
Thursday, urged a short and carefully targeted campaign.

Washington, like Ankara and the EU, brands the PKK a
terrorist organisation, and has been supplying intelligence to
the Turkish military on the PKK in Iraq.

PKK WEAKENED
Turkey’s military said it had killed 240 terrorists in the
eight-day ground offensive and suffered the loss of 27 soldiers.

Turkey had said the ground operation, backed by warplanes,
tanks, long-range artillery and attack helicopters, would
continue until PKK bases were erased and the terrorists no longer
posed a threat to Turkey.

http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/437542.asp

I guess we'll never be able to exactly know about what USA's role was, if so, during this round.