using melee mode for missiles...

**Aldgilles** · 02-27-2008, 21:58

Do you know whether thay are available in High or just early?

They are available throughout the game, but be warned, they are rather vulnerable. All it takes is a charge from some light cavalry to chase them away...

**Heidrek** · 02-28-2008, 00:16

Ha! If I'm using them as melee attacher then there's either no non anrcher cavalry of any sort left, or they are already committed and taken care of!

Their weak defense means that even as a flanker they'll take losses to do their job, but I really love dual purpose units at the moments - Bashkorts have truely shown me the light on how effective javelin units can be if they aren't constantly running away!!

My kick arse Bashkort General just got the Specialist Field Defender and Skilled Last Stand Virtues following his desperate defense of scotland agianst another massive French army. 2200 French against 400 odd VB's i captured and executed their general too! I had to use my vanilla Archers as fighting troops, but in the end I held them off.

The down side is that he's also got the Merciless Vice as well - killing hundreds more prisoners to stop them taking the field again has it's price. Once again - Steppe Heavy Cavalry were instrumental in taking the heart out of the enemy, both figuratively and literally. Chosing when to run and fire and when to charge and fight was without doubt the difference between winning and losing that battle.

**Ravencroft** · 02-28-2008, 03:02

Yep. The Turkish units have been over hauled in my game.

Ex:Turcoman Horse now shoots AP arrows, as well as Sipahis of The Porte(modded for all periods, now a 40 man unit).

Janissary Archers are now longbow users, and Janissary Inf have had their melee capabilities much improved(nearly as strong as Gothic Foot Knights, I think).

**seireikhaan** · 02-28-2008, 03:23

Originally Posted by Ravencroft

...Janissary Inf have had their melee capabilities much improved(nearly as strong as Gothic Foot Knights, I think).

Dang, overboard? Did you give them an armor piercing attack? I just gave them a shield, and two extra defense, as well as giving them a regular infantry charge bonus(3).

**Ravencroft** · 02-28-2008, 03:35

Well, I think what I said went out of context.

Well they're armed with basic bows, and their stats are 2/5/4/4/4. Just to clarify...

And BTW they don't have an AP attack

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**seireikhaan** · 02-28-2008, 04:24

Ah, okay. You said Gothic Foot Knights, so I thought they were, well, kinda uber-ized. After all, GFK tear through pretty much every other infantry in the game, so I was kinda concerned about how such a unit, with bows and an extra 20 guys, was ever going to be defeated in any kind of halfways fair fight.

**Ravencroft** · 02-28-2008, 04:42

Speaking of GFKs, they are like Hospitaller Foot Knights, but get less def/armor and higher attack.(In my game of course!)

By the way, any other useful hybrids?

**Heidrek** · 02-28-2008, 04:46

From memory 2 units of xbows or even better Arbalesters would probably do the job. Possibly even 1 mounted Xbows might be able to take them out 1 on 1 as well.

Oh yeah, forgot they have bows too.....that could make things VERY tricky!!!

I remember trying to fight Viking Huscarles in the VI campaign, there was just nothing that could stand up to them but I managed to get 1 unit of them to chase 2 Pictish Xbows, who took turns firing at the poor vikings. It took a while but the Huscales got torn apart until they finally retreated. Good times.

Useful hybrids? Look no further than my fav's Bashkorts and Bonnachts! Bashers hold the line in the same capacity as spearmen and can stand toe to toe with stronger units, especially cavalry (normally the bane of javelin units) allowing your other units to flank them, with the added bonus of lobbing Jav's at them as they close in. If ignore, THEY can flank the enemy unit with a devastating rain of javelins and then charge them in to take advantage of their meaty 5 charge bonus. Unlike Spearmen they dont get a rank bonus so they lose nothing by going onto "Engage at Will" and dont have to hold formation to be effective.

Bonnachts are monsters, 4 charge and 5 attack, plus they are 100 men strong - have them lob their javelins (only 1 each unfortunately) then go into Wedge and charge them into the engaged and now reeling enemy unit for an instant route. for best results point them at an elite unite like Chiv. Footknights or Royal Body guards, that way when they route (and they will route - no one sticks around after losing half their number to Javelins then getting rear charged by a hundred screaming, psycho clansmen who give no thought to their own safety). Once you go javelin, you never go back.