Jews: Why the animosity towards them?

**Rhyfelwyr** · 09-08-2008, 23:43

Of couse racial differences still exist. It doesn't mean that white people are a different species from black people, it just means there are a few, very minor, biological differences between different races. It is not coincidence that Jewish people have large noses nowadays, it is clearly a genetic trait. It is pointless to deny that such traits exist.

Of course, it is even more ridiculous to claim that these genetic traits have any significant affects on a person's character or intelligence. Racism as we have known it in past centuries should not be tolerated at all, but we should allow scientists to accept that by observing the genetic differences of racial groups they can disover why some are so vulnerable to certain diseases (eg Black/Hamitic/whatever sub-division being more susceptible to the AIDS virus), and save lives trough comparing their DNA to that of other ethnic groups.

Also I think the talk of all Jewish states being intolerant is a little harsh. The Khazar Khanate was a Jewish state in which there were many Orthodox Christians and Muslims. And that was around 700 AD.

From a Christian perspective, the extent of anti-Semitism (as in anti-Jews/Judaism, not all Semitic peoples eg Arabs that the term suggests) is hard to logically explain without looking into Biblical prophecy. Especially considering how rapidly attitudes towards Jews within Europe could fluctuate (look back to Japtheh in Shem's tent). On the one hand the Popes of the early middle-ages issued Jews with badges stating they were Jewish (so Hitler or the Baghdad Caliph's weren't the first to do this), although unlike in the two cases in the brackets this was for their own protection, with the Pope respecting their position as God's chosen people. But then attitudes changed so quickly with Jews being persectued as the murderer's of Christ and being kicked out of Spain in 1492 and in other European states shortly after. It was not until the growth of the reformed churches that scripture was again respected on the matter of the Jews - one example being Cromwell allowing Jews to return to England for the first time since the 13th Century, but they were promptly expelled by the Anglican (openly Anglican, Catholic really) monarchs that succeeded him.

Just my

**Ramses II CP** · 09-09-2008, 16:30

Just by way of an FYI CR, Jewish people do not have large noses in a statistically significant prevalence. That's a simple minded bit of bigotry that you may have heard in an innocent context, but it is no less absurd for it.

People with black skin color are no more 'vulnerable' to AIDS than they are genetically 'vulnerable' to being arrested. Sociological factors account for both equally well.

The point of this thread has been to demonstrate that genetics and racial identity do not correlate in any meaningful way. I'm not sure if you posted those two, frankly offensive, mischaracterizations in a trolling way or just because you didn't know better, but I'd recommend you look into the topic a little more deeply before making such assertions again.

**TinCow** · 09-09-2008, 17:45

A lot of the main 'features' of a the claimed Jewish racial profile simply correspond to general slavic features. Askenazi Jews and Slavs are mostly impossible to tell apart if they are otherwise dressed the same. The nose is also not unique to Jews in any way. Large noses are also associated with Italians (Roman Nose) and French (Gallic Nose), yet neither of those cultures have any significant genetic ties to Askenazi Jews. When it comes down to it, these are all just varied human phenotypes that do not really correspond to a race in any scientific sense. Jews may be considered to be a different race by some people, including some Jews, but there's no real biological basis for it. All differences are almost entirely based in culture and religion, and the phenotypes are associated with them via stereotyping.

Jews may even identify themselves as a separate race sometimes (see my earlier comments in this thread) but that is once again almost entirely based on cultural traits rather than physical ones. If you're looking for a Jewish race, examining DNA is not the path to take. The Jews are a separate people in the same sense that the Scots or Irish are a separate people. The thing that is confusing about Jews is that unlike Scots and Irish, Jews do not historically come from any one particular place. We are all over the world and yet have managed to maintain a cultural identity. This confuses many people and makes them look to a biological affinity to explain the cultural connections and the reasons why the Jews never assimiliated completely into their local communities, as so many other peoples did over history.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 09-09-2008, 17:59

Originally Posted by Ramses II CP

People with black skin color are no more 'vulnerable' to AIDS than they are genetically 'vulnerable' to being arrested. Sociological factors account for both equally well.

I don't have a source to back it up since it's only something I heard on the news, but IIRC there is some sort of biological defence that many people have developed in tropical areas of Africa that protects them against forms of malaria, but in turn makes them more vulnerable to AIDS.

On the issue of Jews stereotypically having large noses, why are people so easily offended by this? In Scotland, why do so many people have ginger hair (including myself, just about)? It is through genetics and on a larger scale the ancestry of many of the Scottish people. That is all the term "race" really means. It doesn't mean we're all different species. It doesn't make me better or worse than anyone with black hair. So why pretend that my hair is the same colour as most people's? There's no point sticking your head in the sand, in the end that just makes it out to be a bigger issue than it really is.

**Ramses II CP** · 09-09-2008, 23:43

Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

I don't have a source to back it up since it's only something I heard on the news, but IIRC there is some sort of biological defence that many people have developed in tropical areas of Africa that protects them against forms of malaria, but in turn makes them more vulnerable to AIDS.

On the issue of Jews stereotypically having large noses, why are people so easily offended by this? In Scotland, why do so many people have ginger hair (including myself, just about)? It is through genetics and on a larger scale the ancestry of many of the Scottish people. That is all the term "race" really means. It doesn't mean we're all different species. It doesn't make me better or worse than anyone with black hair. So why pretend that my hair is the same colour as most people's? There's no point sticking your head in the sand, in the end that just makes it out to be a bigger issue than it really is.

You really shouldn't listen to the news at all, or listen more closely. The color of the people's skin has no correlation to the prevalance of sickle cell in their heredity (That's what helps protect against malaria). This has already been discussed extensively in this thread. Large numbers of people with every color of skin, eyes, hair, and most any other standard race descriptor you can imagine carry the sickle cell gene. The entire 'black' population of southern Africa does not carry the sickle cell gene. Personally I'm not aware of sickle cell making carriers more vulnerable to AIDS but I don't know enough about the topic to say it's not the case.

The reason for the sensitivity to the 'big nose' stereotype is historically obvious, and would likely require violating Godwin's law to even attempt to discuss. Believe me, there are no few people who find it offensive to be referred to as 'ginger' as well.

For the record I'm not, as far as I know, substantially of Jewish heredity so I'm not offended except in a general sort of 'why perpertuate that nonsense' kind of way.