European Union

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I saw one of Nigel Farage's videos on YouTube due to a link in the Backroom Video Thread. While I've been pretty neutral on the EU before, hearing an actual counter-opinion on this issue for once has, I believe, opened my eyes a little more to what the European Union is. To be honest, I think I've lost a little respect for Angela Merkel as well - though not enough to vote SPD, Green, or FDP, of course.

So what do you think? Watch the videos for some interesting thoughts.

Nigel Farage on Tony Blair

Chicken Run

President's "Power Grab"

EDIT: I might as well state my opinion, as well as adding another video. While Germany is the most powerful member of the EU, I still think I'm against it to a certain extent, because:

1) We siphon off money to poorer nations in the EU.
2) The EU, as shown by the video below, seems "a little" corrupt.
3) I like the idea of nationalism - not nationalistic militarism, or nationalistic intolerance, but nationalism in the sense each nation must preserve it's own borders, culture, and sovereignty.

Who's Who in the EU

[InsaneApache]

if you persist down this path you will be portrayed as 'swivel eyed' and 'a headbanger'. Cease and desist fithwith.

This message has been brought to you curtesy of the EU. You will obey.

[JAG]

Headbanger!

[Husar]

Yes, that video was interesting, but then it's not like other governments are a lot better, or in other words, the EU government consists of members of our governments etc blabla and in the end we just vote for this or that stupid idiotic new law/tax/younameit, whether it's on a local level, national level or EU level.
The good thing is that a few of the laws are actually not bad(just guessing, the good one prolly don't make it into the press).
But seriously, how often does someone who is elected actually solve the problems at hand in an effective, lasting or otherwise "good" way?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Edited OP.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

if you persist down this path you will be portrayed as 'swivel eyed' and 'a headbanger'. Cease and desist fithwith.

This message has been brought to you curtesy of the EU. You will obey.

As an Englishman (I presume), what's you opinion on the EU?

[Marshal Murat]

I think it'll be more in favor of a Europe United, rather than a United Europe. The many nations have different cultural components, languages, and have a history of killing each other. To be fair, it's worked so far, but that's because the EU has some power, but not enough to threaten any one nation.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I think it'll be more in favor of a Europe United, rather than a United Europe. The many nations have different cultural components, languages, and have a history of killing each other. To be fair, it's worked so far, but that's because the EU has some power, but not enough to threaten any one nation.

But with the Lisbon Treaty, for example, the power of the EU can increase drastically (watch the videos). Europe worked just fine before the EU, did it not?

[Marshal Murat]

Well, that's the interesting part. Conventional thinking would say that uniting forces would improve everyone's chances. NATO, UN, coalitions, confederacies. This is another step on the road to globalisms. However, the EU may be driving global unity rather than following it.

In my thinking, everyone's okay with the trade agreements, but unwilling to surrender their sovereignty or really try to become 'European'.

[Conradus]

Europe worked just fine before the EU, did it not?

You're not forgetting those 15 centuries of bloodshed are you?

[InsaneApache]

As an Englishman (I presume), what's you opinion on the EU?

I've made my position clear on this issue several times over the last 6 years or so, however to recap....

The EU is being driven by a political elite that cares not one jot for democracy or transparency. Untruths, corruption, overregulation and gerrymandring occur on an unprecedented scale.

Time after time referendums have been held that directly counter the elites preferred route. Single currency, Nice treaty, EU constitution ad infinitum have all been put to referenda and have all been rejected by the electorate. Only for the elite to ignore or more perversely hold referendum after referendum until the voter give the 'right' answer.

A good example is when the UK joined the 'Common Market'. I thought this was a splendid idea, free movement and trade within the zone. We were told in 1975 when we had our referendum that this is all it would be. A free trading bloc. This was patently not true. The EEC became the EC, which then morphed into the EU. This is not what we were asked to vote on, it was a lie.

It's a bit like a political party putting a promise in it's manifesto and then when elected reneging on its commitment......oh wait....

I rest my case.

[Fragony]

If that wasn't enough,

http://www.amazon.com/Eurabia-Euro-A.../dp/083864077X

^-essential reading

ah http://books.google.nl/books?id=hfK9...bnail#PPA10,M1

[Upxl]

The EU is being driven by a political elite that cares not one jot for democracy or transparency. Untruths, corruption, overregulation and gerrymandring occur on an unprecedented scale.

that’s politics,
There all a bunch of money sucking ,bigheaded *****
Learn to live with it or get in the there and fix it!

Time after time referendums have been held that directly counter the elites preferred route. Single currency, Nice treaty, EU constitution ad infinitum have all been put to referenda and have all been rejected by the electorate. Only for the elite to ignore or more perversely hold referendum after referendum until the voter give the 'right' answer.

Although I'm a firm believer in democracy, referendums are totally moronic on this scale and shouldn't even been held.
The masses are stupid and very influential.
To much factors involved that can influence the outcome.
from present day politics in ones own country to did or did you not stump your toe on the way to the bathroom this morning?!
Besides to cast a vote like that one,one has to be firmly informed in the why's and why not’s .I seriously very much doubt that even 50 % of the people had any idea what they where voting pro or contra for.

A good example is when the UK joined the 'Common Market'. I thought this was a splendid idea, free movement and trade within the zone. We were told in 1975 when we had our referendum that this is all it would be. A free trading bloc. This was patently not true. The EEC became the EC, which then morphed into the EU. This is not what we were asked to vote on, it was a lie.

Face the facts
you cant expect to have a voice in the world when going against upcoming power blocks like China or India.
Then you have reviving and starting in showing its teeth again Russia.
You got to have money and muscle to do that with a huge population to back it up.
Even the UK some day must wake up and see that the empire of past is gone!
Although everyone still cherishes a great amount of respect towards the uk and some scraps still remain, (this will not last forever) it really is gone!
You want to be a small piece of zilch and listen to and playing by the big boy's rules fine,i don’t!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Pixel is loosing his patience, i apologize.

It’s far from perfect, nothing is but it’s a fine idea and I’ll say it again: If all these variations of cultures can prove being able in working towards a same goal a same direction it’s the only provide evidence mankind has in not blowing itself up into thousands of smithereens.

I’m pro EU in case you where still pondering that one Evil_Maniac.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

My position, added to the OP:

1) We siphon off money to poorer nations in the EU.
2) The EU, as seen by the video below, seems "a little" corrupt.
3) I like the idea of nationalism - not nationalistic militarism, or nationalistic intolerance, but nationalism in the sense each nation must preserve it's own borders, culture, and sovereignty.

So, what do you think? Is the EU a corrupt, undemocratic mass, or not?

[Ice]

My position, added to the OP:

Numbers 1 and 2 are why I like limiting the scope of our federal government.

Anyways I don't really have an opinion about the EU considering it doesn't really affect my sovereignty and every day life, but I do think a United Europe is in the best interest of Europeans, although I would be wary of an EU with too much power.

[Fragony]

How very populistic of you to have doubts. Can't you see it's all for the better? EU roxxors and we all know what happened to the jews.

hmmm doesn't quite work when I do it...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Anyways I don't really have an opinion about the EU considering it doesn't really affect my sovereignty and every day life, but I do think a United Europe is in the best interest of Europeans, although I would be wary of an EU with too much power.

A United Europe is the whole reason the sovereignty argument comes up. A single-country EU takes away the sovereignty of it's components - I do not want Germany to become a state of the EU, albiet the most powerful one.

Sovereignty and a United Europe cannot coexist.

Why do you say it is in our best interests? The individual countries of Europe are already powerful, especially Germany and France.

[Ice]

Why do you say it is in our best interests? The individual countries of Europe are already powerful, especially Germany and France.

There is strength in numbers, unless you enjoy being a patsy under NATO.

A United Europe is the whole reason the sovereignty argument comes up. A single-country EU takes away the sovereignty of it's components - I do not want Germany to become a state of the EU, albiet the most powerful one.

Hence my comment of an EU with too much power.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

There is strength in numbers, unless you enjoy being a patsy under NATO.

Yes, but I'd prefer being a little less strong than losing my sovereignty. I mean, Germany's already the most powerful country in the EU, so why would I complain otherwise?

Also, Germany is the second or third strongest nation in NATO, definitely behind America, and possibly behind Britain. NATO also does not threaten our sovereignty.

[JR-]

EDIT: I might as well state my opinion, as well as adding another video. While Germany is the most powerful member of the EU, I still think I'm against it to a certain extent, because:

1) We siphon off money to poorer nations in the EU.
2) The EU, as seen by the video below, seems "a little" corrupt.
3) I like the idea of nationalism - not nationalistic militarism, or nationalistic intolerance, but nationalism in the sense each nation must preserve it's own borders, culture, and sovereignty.

haha, i have been of this view for a long time now. :)