biggest tactical blunder---Cavalry

[s0meguy]

Thing is, in EB the cavalry combat focuses on charging, running off, charging again, and makes just throwing them in there and letting them fight less useful. It could even work, if it werent for the fact that the unit stops charging the moment that the first member of the unit hits the enemy unit. So charging is broken I think.

[anubis88]

Thing is, in EB the cavalry combat focuses on charging, running off, charging again, and makes just throwing them in there and letting them fight less useful. It could even work, if it werent for the fact that the unit stops charging the moment that the first member of the unit hits the enemy unit. So charging is broken I think.

Well that never happened to me... are you sure they ran long enough?

[s0meguy]

Its a hardcoded RTW bug... Odd that you didn't notice it.

[Tristuskhan]

I think the bug occurs when a soldier from the enemy unit gets far behind his formation during the fight. It's just like when you are chasing routers: your horses can keep whirling their lances in the air for long.

In a charge, even if the little bugger is immediately killed, momentum is lost when the horses hit the main enemy formation. And if the bugger holds, it's even worse.
But I seldom experience that kind of issue.

[Obelics]

bah, who knows, i think could be just a legend.
What i can say is that if i charge with good cavalry, i can see the enemy rapidly decreasy of 30, 40 men in a few second, and then they broke.

if you charge a not compacted enemy, then the charge will be a failure, also dont charge if you see there is some men of the enemy unit who is completely out of formation, and far from the rest of its unit, this can happen when you charge in the rear of phalanx, cause often happen that a pair of phalanxmen start to fight far away of their unit.

But if you see a well compacted target, engaged in the front and so pretty exposed in the rear, that's the moment to charge....

EDIT: Tristuskhan was faster than me to answer

[Tristuskhan]

EDIT: Tristuskhan was faster than me to answer

As fast as the wind over the Wasteland

My advice, if you're fast enough with the mouse, is to keep a two-second delay between every charging cavalry unit. The cumulative effect of successive charges can break even Thorakitai Argyraspidai.

PS: as far as you play Pahlava!

[Lovejoy]

I find the cav well balanced in EB. If used correctly they are devestating. I dont know what bug S0meguy is talking about, but the charges work great. If not... your not good enough!

I believe the EB-team balanced the cav with this "bug" in-mind, so they made the charge extra strong. I remember ppl at the RTR-forums talking about it, but I thought this "bug" was fixed in the 1.5 engine?

Anyway:

Cav is great, they are battle winners, but it takes some practice. I never go anywhere without some good cav in my back.

EDIT:
The Persian Cataphract: Well spoken!

[Sdragon]

I find cavalry feel just right. Devastating charges and reasonable melee for the heavies and mediums. Every type fits its roll. Only types I'm not happy with are the uber general bodyguards of death. The later ones of Bactria and Parthia chew through elites from the front. These factions don't base their army off how good its men are, its how many family members they have. Just out of curiosity what modding would I need to do to reduce the number of men in generals units?

[konny]

The secret behind successfull cavalry combat is timing:

- Do not charge againts fresh and eager units. Even swordfighter or skirmirshers will cut down your shining horsemen when they don't have anything better to do; spearmen in this situation won't even notice that there was also cavalry present in the general melee.

- Wait until the enemy is shaken and tired. The losses by the charge (preferable from a dircetion different from the front) will usualy break the enemy unit on the spot. Even worse: the moment they start routing your cavalry is allready amongst them, and by this a unit of Hippeis or Eqvites can shredder a unit of Spartiates by the loss of not more than three or four horsemen.

[Obelics]

Thing is, in EB the cavalry combat focuses on charging, running off, charging again, and makes just throwing them in there and letting them fight less useful. It could even work, if it werent for the fact that the unit stops charging the moment that the first member of the unit hits the enemy unit. So charging is broken I think.

that's not true 100%, charge, if well done, can completely broke the enemy, so there is not need for a second one. If it not happens, sure the enemy will rout soon. The enemy must be engaged, wait they are getting tired by your infantry, and strike.

the cavalry dont stop to charge after the first man has hit the enemy, look at the enemy men when charged, you will see the number of men will decrease rapidly after the charge.

Again give a look to the unit cards in your EB folder, find a cavalry unit that has Armour Piersing as Secondary weapon, and look how much domnage it can do even in a prolonged melee.

[s0meguy]

uh you can just rout any unit by charging it with a cavalry unit? Apart from the fact that I tried the charge thing, ok maybe witht he wrong cav but it was totally ineffective anyway (also tried attacking them from the back when they were fighting my infantry, just flanking them with other infantry seems more effective to me, only its a bit slower but the enemy usually doesnt react if its in a fight and gets outflanked) , if it were possible, the EB team prolly wouldn't allow it as that would make the game too easy if you can just destroy a unit with 1 charge.

[Obelics]

uh you can just rout any unit by charging it with a cavalry unit? Apart from the fact that I tried the charge thing, ok maybe witht he wrong cav but it was totally ineffective anyway, if it were possible, the EB team prolly wouldn't allow it as that would make the game too easy if you can just destroy a unit with 1 charge.

it's not that straight, you have:

(supposed you are playing with a non eastern faction)

1) keep your cavalry in the reserve and fresh
2) engage battle with infantry
3) wait, or manouvre your infantry to sourround some of the enemy if you like
4) now profit of the kaos to move your cavalry in the back of the front line.
5) find a weak spot in the enemy rear, usually an engaged and tired enemy.
6) align your cavalry to the right position
7) charge

Exception:

a)If enemy have some good cavalry you have to rout its cavalry first.
b)if the enemy have a great general (i.e. command stars), assure to kill him before to employ tha cavalry in the charge, cause the enemy army got a great moral bost with generals. If the general is engaged with your infantry it is easy to kill closing him with cavalry.

and not, i cant rout every enemy with cavalry, depend on the cavalry, on the terrain, on the enemy, on the battle etc. But i can assure if you do things well, cavalry is the decisive unit for your army.
Also keep the cavalry away from trees and bush. Also look in the Unit cards if it have great penalties in snow etc.

EDIT:

As fast as the wind over the Wasteland!

why every time some one quotes that infamous team, i feel like a trahitor, like Jude ...

[The Persian Cataphract]

Obviously we had to nerf down the dynamics of cavalry combat; In Vanilla, you could use cataphracts for any role, with the notable exceptions elephantry and horse-archers. I could use cataphracts almost senselessly, even against the front of pikemen. It's insane. We obviously can't have that.

Of course, we do realize that our horsemen are slighty... Well, I don't want to say weak, but they lack the factor of disruption (Which is a matter of mass, not attack or lethality, or even armour for that matter). All I can say is that we are working on some sort of stat-tweaking, but otherwise, we are quite satisfied with our cavalry. You must know when to use horsemen and of which discipline and class they must be of. You do not choose Romans, Germanics or the Celtic factions (Including Getai, though they have more tactical flexibility) for equestrian prowess; For this, you must at least look at the Iberians, Macedonia or Carthaginians, or Ptolemaic Egypt. If you want to use horsemen more predominantly, Pontus and the Seleucids have a very respectable roster of horsemen. The Sarmatians takes all of that another notch. Finally, you have what I'd like to call "The Fantastic Four"; Bactria, Armenia, Saka and the Parthians. If you want almost impervious horsemen who are willing to take you even to Oz, and by that maul even the toughest infantry, those are the factions you ought to look at.

I am sorry, but not once have I ever had any problems with a unit such as the Grivpanvar, or the Hetairoi Kataphraktoi. Of course, you must expect some casualty; This isn't Vanilla where you could use golden chevron horsemen and rip through any infantry with zero losses. Against light infantry, you will perhaps at most lose five men from such high elite regiments, used correctly. It stings the perfectionist gamer within me; The historian within me shouts out of delight. Cavalry is supposed to be decisive force, ready for deployment when the time is ready, not to be squandered away as grunts to win the battles for you. You leave this either to a solid infantry core, or horse-archers.

[The_Mark]

Well said.

And, in case anyone hasn't mentioned it, do not use the wedge formation for cavalry (unless you're rolling on BI), as it really doesn't work well. You can use it to, well, wedge between two units, but don't charge with it; IIRC wedge is what causes the charge to stop when the tip cavalryman contacts with the enemy.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

do not charge the first unit but the unit behind it .. that way you can cause mass rout much faster ..
also .. do not use just 1 unit of cavalry but form them in to a wing .. like it has been said before .. attack with them enemys rear or weakest unit and soon the enemy will brake