The welsh On expert

[Shambles]

Has any 1 been able to finish this game using The welsh On expert?
No mods, Or cheats,
Just VI

I keep trying and i keep getting slaughtered.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Try the guides dude. One thing i always try to do is ally myself to the vikings quickly as possible and wheni fighting a war I try to ally with the saxons vs the more powerful and dangerous mercians and using those Welsh bandits firepower with some good mercenary infantry with my Inns ( as the Welsh lack heavy infantry).

[CountMRVHS]

Ah the Welsh, one of my favorite factions.

No, really. Their starting position is so poor and awkward, the Vikings have instant access to every single one of your provinces, you have NO trade goods, and you'll have to save, save, and wait to make your best unit. I always play on Hard, so I'm not sure how the game would play out in Expert, but I have been able to do fairly well as the Welsh. I've never won a 2/3 victory with them, but I've come very close, getting to the point where I just got bored with it.

Allying with the Vikings certainly helps -- sadly, you'll need to wait awhile before your princess matures though. For some reason the Vikings are very trustworthy in the game, so as long as you regularly check the diplomacy and never give them the opportunity to drop an alliance with you (ie by declaring war on another one of their allies), you should be fine. In VI, the Vikings either come out swinging and fall flat within 20 years, or they become a major power and start cranking out the Jomsvikings. So depending on your game, you may need to fight them eventually anyway. In one of my games, I was able to survive as the Welsh *without* allying to the Vikings, and turtling for quite a while -- but I think I just got lucky there.

The next problem is the Saxons/Mercians. There are 2 schools of thought on this one. Well, there are probably more but here are the big 2: Either one of these guys can just steamroll you if they choose -- there's really no way around that. Until you can make Welsh Bandits and upgraded Celtic Warriors and Armored Spearmen, you simply can't stop them -- and even then it'll be close. So the first thing you could do is deal directly with this threat, and stamp them out before they can make their deadly Huscarles. Celtic Warriors would be your unit of choice here, plus archers from Guent or whatever province it is that gives them a plus 1 valor bonus. Most people choose to go after the Saxons first -- apparently you can wipe them out within the first 10 years -- and then you'll have all the rich lands and money you'll need to take on the Mercians.

The second strategy, if you don't favor a mad rush, is to ally with both the Saxons and Mercians and wait for the inevitable Saxon/Mercian war. Drop your alliance with one of them and attack the other -- just make sure you can capture enough provinces from this guy so that the other guy won't reap all the rewards himself. If you can't hold enough lands, you're toast, because the other guy will be able to outproduce you even faster.

The guides sections has a crazy amount of advice on the Welsh, so I won't get into all the subtleties here, but hopefully this will give you a start. Let us know how your campaign goes!

CountMRVHS

[Shambles]

Try the guides dude. One thing i always try to do is ally myself to the vikings quickly as possible and wheni fighting a war I try to ally with the saxons vs the more powerful and dangerous mercians and using those Welsh bandits firepower with some good mercenary infantry with my Inns ( as the Welsh lack heavy infantry).

Ahh but i use the old

GET OF MY LAND!!! YOU VIKING & SAXON BAS***DS
Style of game play,

I really dont want to agree to a aliance with the saxons or vikings,
The scots and irish i usualy say ok to,
And the blue guys (mercians) Usualy get the thumbs up as well,

Then we help eachother out when the saxons attack a province
(although it costs a fortune with destroyed facilaties.)

I spose i should just pretend to be freindly with the saxons.
But I really dont want to lol.

and the vikings end up Becoming neutral after i repell about 10 of their attacks.

But i still end up loosing,
Its all down to the money And i can never expand my lands much futher than The real size of wales,
Well unless i have a death wish.
Becous when i take lands.
Every 1 hates me. and i get messages telling me about how they prefer to stay freinds with the saxons,

Even the scots and the irish "fellow celts" turn against me.
I find the welsh Extreemly difficult to get any where with.

But i guess il just keep trying.

P.s
Ive decided.

I will continue to Yell GET OFF MY LAND!!!! to any non celtic faction.
Untill i get lucky or something lol.
I wont accept an aliance from the saxons!


EDIT

I think my best bet is to attack ierland,
Be ally with mercians
And hope they block off the saxons rout to wales.

Il probably end up abandoning cornwall. (exquse me for not knowing what the game calles them)

As i live in gwynedd my self,
I always try to take that from the rebbels, But The men of gwynedd keep Making dumb uprizings against me.
Dont they know im welsh?
And every time thins start going right...
You guessed it
Its a rebellion.
And i haft to chose which people to side with, and loose 1/2 my provinces.

I really must admit That MTW VI has a much tougher campaign in the viking period Than Shogun TW has in any period,

Oh yeah.
I refuse to let the compuer do ANYTHING for me.
No taxes no buildings, no units,
No nothing,
So i guess I have no one to balem but my self.

But I cant continue to play right now
as my leader died of an ilness 1 year befor my son came of age.
So i Start again.
(Im not a start from a save geme if things go wrong person)

[ichi]

I think my best bet is to attack ierland,
Be ally with mercians
And hope they block off the saxons rout to wales.

exactly, and get a great navy

ichi

[ShadowMagnet]

Perhaps it's down to my own playing style but I see no other option than conquering Saxon lands first and then drawing a quick breath and teching up before eventually attacking the Mercians.
I've tried to cover pretty much every strategy available (including invading Ireland initially) and, maybe it's my poor luck, every time I got creamed. Saxons own very rich provinces and for the first few years throw at you mainly fyrdmen and peasants. Celtic warriors with more than 1 valour shred any Saxon spearmen in seconds and there are 166 warriors per unit (Large size).
After a few battles and succesful expansion into southern England your income will rocket.
Of course alliance with Vikings is a must.

[Shambles]

Well i have a bit of work to do as usual,
But im shure i can make a few spair hours
To try the old attack the saxons Idea,

Il let you know what happens,
Il just need to try and get them befor they ally with every 1 els.

[Patron]

That's it. For starters start building a boat builder in your capital, the vikings don't seem to bother attacking your navy at the beginning, so you will not suffer their wrath early on if you do this, the expense is worth it. Attack the Saxons as quickly as possible, then the mercians once the saxon army is pushed east. Go straight to building drinking halls and churn out celtic warriors. Then in the provinces where you have iron, build a bowyer on one province and build stables on the rest and churn out archers and horsemen.

Don't bother engaging the enemy, just swarm into poorly protected lands and pillage depending on your chances of keeping it. Once you get your horsemen, do a King Arthur.

[bretwalda]

Nice. Do yo have a larger pic that you could link? Btw, what is that King Arthur move?

[Shambles]

I like the attack the saxons idea lots.
I never used to build docks as i thought thats how people got emnisarys in to bribe my armys,

I will try that techneique soon

[bretwalda]

Odd. My armies have never been bribed since I play MTW... Anyway docks are your friends considering they allow fast movement between distant shores and help to keep together a bigger realm...

[Shambles]

I think they only start bribing you 1ce you start bribing them lol.

And i usualy try a bribe they say no
take all my money kill my emnisary AND then use My money to bribe my considerably smaller units,
Then everything goes quite pear shaped,

[King Bob VI]

As Welsh on hard I had two problems that lead to my defeat:
1. I was pinned and couldn't expand, and was getting a very small income, so I could barely pay the upkeep for my 4 deffense armies.
2. The Saxons became way too powerful, they had at least 2 full stacks in all of their provinces, and many of their troops had +3 armour AND weapon upgrades.

[tigger_on_vrb]

My strategy was to conquor Ireland first - fairly easy with your archers. Adding horsemen to the army later helps too. Meanwhile building up my economy especially boats to protect coasts from viking raids. I got an alliance with the vikings, then took all the islands.
By this point you have the largest navy by far and you can go to war with either the saxons or mercians if they have started fighting. Or go the more patient route and waste the scots etc and attack from north and west into England at the same time.
Tried that strategy on expert 3 times and always won pretty easily.

[Patron]

Do a King Arthur as in to be a celt killing saxons (mercians are saxons too). Send your archers forward to take out a few fyrdmen or fire apon the saxon royal bodyguards. Then just swarm in with your horsemen, don't worry about the fyrdmen, just surround them with 2 units of horsemen and change the formation of the horsemen attacking the back to wedge. It doesn't really matter if you lose, assuming you took a lot of their land and they only have enough money for 4 units of fyrdmen you should wipe them out within a decade. Desperately pummel the saxons to pieces and conquer middle and southern England up to those 2 provinces that Northumbria have. Northumbria are weak, don't worry about declaring war on them. You can then concentrate on building up England and especially your navy to obliterate the risk of viking invasion. Then you're set to conquer Britain, or make loads of money and try to bribe a viking army and conquer denmark.

[Tristrem]

i've been playing mtw for a long time and the welsh are my favorite faction for the viking campain. the easiest way to get a good start is to blitz the saxons that way they don't block access to your southern lands and then work up to get the bandits they are a lifesaver later on

[Satyr]

The Welsh are my second favorite (after the Northumbrians) and I also blitz the Saxon dogs. I build as many troops as possible for the first 6 or 8 turns and then attack hard. I always attack more than one province at a time so they can't gang up on me. I eliminate the Saxons in about 6 more years. Then I work on taking the eastern rebel held provinces before the Vikings create too large of stacks there and then eventually work my way north. I can usually finish by about 860. I think the speed with which you need to attack actually helps your game over all because you get quite large quite fast and get in the habit of being aggressive.

[Patron]

I usually attack on the first or second turn, I just swarm into areas which are poorly protected, killing off the militias there and destroying military buildings, whilst my peaceful heartlands train more units to finnish the job.

[Shambles]

Well heres what I did,
I attacked somerset and the other province so all my lands were connected and took them with relitive ease.
Then i attcked the 2 rebbel provinces nearest to me,
I married off my daughter to the mercanians
And then started to build,
The saxons amassed a huge army and took back somerset But then proposed marrage so i accepted.

I then started building boats,
The vikings stayed neutrall,
And when i managed to get in to the seas i sank there ships,

I was doing Really well,
I even had Money for a change, Usualy 15thousand florins, at the end of a turn.

I stated building inn's and drinking things so i could make celtic warriors,
And then started making warrior holds so if any 1 attacked i could retreat and hope an ally would come rescue me,

Finaly after years of building and amassing an army The mercians and saxons began a war,
i imedeatly attacke somerset and took my province back,
In 1 turn the mercians and I Wiped out the saxons,

I was happy,

I then started to look at who changed there aligance when i attacked the saxons,
The irish would be my next target,
I already had the largest naval force,
and allowed scotland to stay in my seas as they were my allys, And that way they could come rescue me if anything went wrong,

Then.
Disaster strikes,
My stupid Leader dies,
With no heirs left,
When everything looked to be going so well,

I had money to spare and inn's on almost every province to hier mercenerys if needed,
Then that happens
It was HIGHLY frustrating,
Wasnt even in a battle or died from old age,
Just an illness. "i never even knew he was sick"
What a rip off,

*mumbles profanity*

I will wait a while Probably a week Then try again.
"personaly i think the pc cheats like mad"

[bretwalda]

Reload. Simple as that. You play for the fun, ay?

[Shambles]

Reload. Simple as that. You play for the fun, ay?

I dont Reload from a saved point as this is cheating in my eyes,
I will simply start again


ShambleS

[Satyr]

You might consider what state you are going to be in when the Mercians (who own most of what the Saxons owned plus what they started with are going to do to you when they get bored. I find it never pays to let either the Mercians or the Saxons get too large. That's why I take one or the other out asap. Also you can send you bishop over to make an alliance with the Vikings, then they are quite likely to leave you alone most of the game. Good luck next time.

PS. You do have the 2.1 patch installed so all your kings don't die at age 56 don't you?

[bretwalda]

I dont Reload from a saved point as this is cheating in my eyes,
I will simply start again


ShambleS

Of course, whatever makes the most fun out of the game for you!

[Shambles]

My game is fully updated,
And the fool died from an illness Not old age :(

[mfberg]

My favorite Welsh tactic late in the game is to bribe jutland and build up to Bandits and hit the Hordaland heir stack with a stack of bandits and archers. So much fun to kill off the vikings in their own lands.

mfberg

[Patron]

I've never bribed the viking homelands. :( I try but I can never do it...

[mfberg]

Assassins, spies, priests, emissaries and revolts in the viking homelands are your friends.

mfberg