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Thread: The Big New Yorker- [TBNY] concept thread

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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default The Big New Yorker- [TBNY] concept thread





    The Big New Yorker

    Huge Mafia Game

    aiming for 100 players











    Interested Parties: (22/100)

    ArpeggiateTHIS
    Azathoth
    Beefy187
    Beskar
    Captain Blackadder
    Diamondeye
    Diana Abnoba
    Double A
    God Emperor
    johnhughthom
    Khazaar
    Methos
    Pinman
    Renata
    remake20
    Seon
    splitpersonality
    Skooma Addict
    Subotan
    wideyedwanderer
    YLC
    Zack





    Introduction:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I've finally decided to do a huge mafia game. There isn't room on the calendar for such a game this year, so I'm aiming for 2011 for this game. Obviously there will be some Capo IV fatigue, so I plan on having a bit of a break between Capo IV and this game.
    • For this game, I will not be hosting any other games on this or any other website.
    • During this game, I will not accept invitations to join games. Hosting this will be my entire experience until the number of living players drops to 40.
    • This will probably be a one-time only deal... like Resident Evil: Dark Falls, I will put a lot into making this game special, but it may only happen once.


    I am encouraged by the successes I've had hosting RE: Dark Falls, Murder Manor III, and Star Fox: Lylat Wars. If the Star Wars: Fall of the Order game goes well, then I believe I will have proved to myself I have the skills necessary to do a huge game, which has only ever really been done by one or two or very few other hosts, if I am not mistaken. I don't take this lightly.
    Inspirations:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Seeing Capo di tutti Capo IV as a possible event happening at the end of this year or early next year made me think back to the fun I had during Capo III. I've never had an idea that I thought would compare to Capo, and none that would warrant a large number of players. Well, a number of influences have got me thinking about how to make a game that is nearly as fun as Capo was, but still unique enough to call it my own.

    Another game which inspired me was YLC's Blood, Money, and Power. I sat down and was a small part of the design process there, and I see the potential. I especially like the idea of heists and theft, and hiring people to work for you by contract.

    Civilization Fanatics Center's Night of the Werewolf series of games have a style all their own. I've borrowed elements from NOTW to enhance Lylat Wars, for example. I believe I could use a couple of game concepts from NOTW and apply them here, specifically "support votes", items, income, personal goals, strength, and so forth.

    The general idea of giving everyone something to do.... everyone having a pathway to power. Such as what I did with Resident Evil: Dark Falls. Everyone had the ability to develop their character, or build it right from the start to become talented in one or two areas. Also, they could choose their own direction, who they trusted, and if they wanted to kill their own teammates or not. Even basic townies didn't necessarily have to be basic.... or goody-goody. They could turn evil.

    The more complex serial killer roles from Capo III and the Demon from Murder Manor III has lead me to construct some pretty badass serial killer roles. If there is one game that could use a really evil serial killer, it is this game.

    I've also drawn on my experience hosting dozens and dozens of games and playing, I believe, at least 75+ games in the past 2 years alone. I know what works and what doesn't.
    Challenges:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Can I recruit 100 people, or nearly that many?
    I believe so. I've gotten 60 players easily for Resident Evil, and with the number of people on my friends list and the contacts I have at CFC and TWC, I believe I can push this one past 80 players easily. I also hope, hope, hope if there is one game you play, it is this game. So I will be accepting all kinds of people into the game. That means lots of lurkers, which means lots of places for the mafia to hide.

    Will this be a different experience from the Capo series?
    Unfortunately, in order for this game to be interesting to the individual player, in a game this size, people have to have something to do besides vote with their lousy 1 vote even if they are a basic townie. Which means, a Capo-like system of advancement or actions or a NOTW-like system of money, items, and personal goals. I believe you will find some similarities to the Capo series in terms of game mechanics. But, since GH and CR have been able to pull off similar mechanics, I know that it isn't a total ripoff, especially if I design it from the ground up using my own vision. I will need to make it my own and distance it from Capo IV on the calendar, but otherwise I think I can make it a very unique experience.

    Can I handle game balancing for a game of this magnitude?
    Yes. I already know what the challenges are, where the cheap moves are, and how to work around them. Thankfully I know what to do here. It won't be a broken game even if one family gets an early lead, or if the families get wiped out quickly.

    Can I handle the writeups?
    Easier than Resident Evil: Dark Falls. So yeah.

    Keeping track of dozens and dozens of player's actions and sending out results?
    This will be easier than Resident Evil: Dark Falls in all areas except quantity of results. But since each result is a blurb, that's easy enough... will be the hardest part of the game once it gets going, but I know I can handle it.

    Will I finish the game?
    Haven't left one unfinished yet. If I did REDF I can do this one.

    Real life happens....
    I know, but with 48 hour days and 48 hour nights, I will have enough time. I might need to give myself an extra day in between phases to break and send out results. People can use that time for voting if they want, I suppose.

    Won't this game take forever? Especially with reviver roles?
    Hey, are you peeking ahead? Yes, this game will take a while. But if you recall, nobody died during the first few phases of Resident Evil: Dark Falls. This game is designed to not necessarily require everyone to be dead for the game to be over. The game could be over with 40 people left alive. There are also roles that can cause people to die and not get revived. (If you lose your head, you can't get that fixed in the hospital...) Revivers are also not 100% effective, and you cannot revive someone who has been dead for longer than 1 day/night cycle. After that, they kind of.... rot.



    When the mafia families get big enough, they will be able to murder several people per round. Then the game will speed up. There will also be vigilantes running around killing people. I anticipate I can do 7 phases or more inside of a month, and the game shouldn't take longer than 20-30 phases. Less time than my Resident Evil: Dark Falls game.

    Player fatigue! Hey, don't make it too big and complicated, man! I have a real life I have to live!
    The game will be quite simple. You don't have to organize massive town networks, you don't have to organize anyone if you don't want to. You can go out on your own and do your own thing. You can even just focus on voting and staying alive if you wish. It's not like you necessarily HAVE to put a lot into this game. Maybe you do a little bit of group work at the beginning to choose a career, and then you spend the rest of the game just doing that one task over and over again and hoping for success... and then voting however way you please.

    It's quite easy to become a vigilante and just kill people if you want to. Eventually you can become so good that you become quite the fearsome force. Someone will catch wind of your work and end your life, but hey, at least you got to kill things. Play this game as you like. You could also decide to become a politician, and try to get people to bribe you for your vote. So seriously, you can find ways to have fun even without massive networking ability.

    This game should be more fatigue for the game host than the players, as usual. Don't worry about that. And if you do go inactive, people will probably use you as cover to hide from investigation, or steal from you. So I honestly don't care if you go inactive.

    There will be NO WOGS this game. You want inactive people gone? Vote for them or vigilante kill them. Or just pretend they don't exist, at your peril....
    Game Setup:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I will obviously adjust this to fit the actual scale of the game. If I had my dream game, and I had all 100 slots filled, then the game setup will be as follows:

    8 mafia Dons
    -This is the head of the mafia family. When this person dies, if there were 3 or fewer mafiosi under his employ, that family is no more. His former workers become unaffiliated mafia (neutral). If there are 4 or more people under his employ, they vote for a new Don and continue.

    60 corruptible roles
    -These are the various townspeople who would be willing to work for a mafia family, but until they do, they will be trying to destroy all the mafia, or just earn some cash. There may also be special roles here.

    30 incorruptible roles
    -These are the various townspeople who would never consider working for a mafia family, and will stop at nothing to destroy the mafia. There may also be special roles here.

    2 serial killers
    -Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
    Game Roles:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Townsperson


    Once you reach level 1 in any category, you do not need to work in groups anymore.


    Investigator path: (Lawful)

    working with 3 people, perform 4 investigations (level 1), successfully investigate a mafioso (level 2) and successfully investigate another mafioso (level 3)

    - Level 1 [Gumshoe] 50% chance of successful investigation, cannot see through inconclusive.
    - Level 2 [Private Eye] 75% chance of successful investigation, can see through inconclusive with a second scan.
    - Level 3 [Forensic Investigator] 100% chance of successful investigation, can see through inconclusive.

    Medic path: (Lawful)

    working with 4 people, successfully revive 2 people (level 1), successfully revive 1 more person (level 2) and successfully revive 2 more people. (level 3)

    - Level 1 [Nurse] 25% chance of reviving a person
    - Level 2 [Doctor] 50% chance of reviving a person
    - Level 3 [Surgeon] 75% chance of reviving a person

    Legal path: (Lawful)

    Working with 3 people, successfully save someone from the lynch (level 1), successfully save 2 others from a lynch (level 2), and successfully save two more people from a lynch.

    - Level 1 [Public defender] 25% chance of saving someone from a lynch, or protecting someone from investigation.
    - Level 2 [Defense attorney/prosecutor] 50% chance of saving someone from a lynch, or protecting someone from investigation.
    - Level 3 [District attorney/Judge] 75% chance of saving someone from a lynch, or protecting someone from investigation.

    Politician path: (Neutral)

    Under construction. You will need to gain enough votes for Governor or Senator, or have had to have been Governor or Senator, but I haven't fully designed this system yet.

    - Level 1 [City Councilor] Gains the ability to do support votes
    - Level 2 [State Senator] Has two support votes
    - Level 3 [Congressman] Has two support votes, or two lynch votes

    Governor- (incumbent) can stop a lynch, double lynch, or choose between lynches. Also chooses lynch method.
    Senator- (incumbent) has three votes.

    Roleblocker path: (Criminal)

    Working with 4 others, you must successfully block someone 3 times (level 1) then successfully block someone 3 more times (level 2) and then 3 more times (level 3).

    - Level 1 [Sergeant/Singer] 50% chance of blocking someone.
    - Level 2 [Lieutenant/Dancer] 75% chance of blocking someone.
    - Level 3 [Captain/Prostitute] 100% chance of blocking someone.

    Defender path: (Criminal)

    Working with 3 others, you must successfully defend someone 4 times (level 1), then successfully defend against a mafia attack (level 2) and again successfully defend against mafia attack (level 3).

    - Level 1 [Watchman] 50% chance of defending someone
    - Level 2 [Security Guard] 75% chance of defending someone
    - Level 3 [Personal Bodyguard] 100% chance of defending someone

    Vigilante path: (Criminal)

    Working with 4 others, you must successfully kill someone 3 times (level 1), then successfully kill someone two more times (level 2) and then successfully kill someone three more times (level 3).

    - Level 1 [Vigilante] 50% chance of killing someone
    - Level 2 [Hitman] 75% chance of killing someone
    - Level 3 [Assassin] 100% chance of killing someone

    Criminal path: (Criminal)

    Working with 4 others, you must successfully execute a criminal action 2 times. (Level 1) Then 2 more times (level 2) and then 2 more times (level 3).

    - Level 1 [Crook] 50% chance of success doing a criminal action (theft, dealing, murder)
    - Level 2 [Thug] 75% chance of success doing a criminal action (theft, dealing, murder)
    - Level 3 [Gangster] 100% chance of success doing a criminal action (theft, dealing, murder)





    Gangster




    Don- (management) +$1,500 per day
    Luca- (muscle work, management, legal work) -$1,000 per day
    Made- (dealing, grunt work, theft) -$500 per day
    Wiseguy- (muscle work, grunt work, theft) -$200 per day

    • -Dealing (drugs, gambling, firearms, prostitution, tobacco, alcohol) Generates Income
    • -Theft (steal from person, steal from business) Generates Income
    • -Grunt work (murder)
    • -Muscle work (protection)
    • -Management (recruitment [Don] and investigation.)
    • -Legal work (defend from investigation)

    Recruitment:
    • Criminal: Can be recruited by consent for free, or against their will for a one-time charge of double their daily income.
    • Neutral: Can be recruited by consent for a one-time charge of triple their daily income, or against their will for a one-time charge of 10 times their daily income.
    • Lawful: Can be recruited by consent for a one-time charge of 10 times their daily income, but not against their will unless with a special item or ability.
    • Incorruptible: Cannot be recruited by any means.






    F.B.I.- Federal Bureau of Investigation



    Wiretapping
    - Level 1 [Special Agent]- (classified)
    - Level 2 [Division Chief]- (classified)
    - Level 3 [Deputy Director]- (classified)

    Investigation
    - Level 1 [Special Agent]- (classified)
    - Level 2 [Division Chief]- (classified)
    - Level 3 [Deputy Director]- (classified)

    Undercover
    - Level 1 [Special Agent]- (classified)
    - Level 2 [Division Chief]- (classified)
    - Level 3 [Deputy Director]- (classified)




    Serial Killers




    Serial Killer
    - Level 1 [Killer]- 75% chance of successful murder. (kill 2 for next rank)
    - Level 2 [Murderer]- 90% chance of successful murder. (kill 2 for next rank)
    - Level 3 [Slayer]- 100% chance of successful murder. (kill 2 for next rank)
    - Level 4 [Butcher]- 150% chance of successful murder. (kill through protection, kill 2 for next rank)
    - Level 5 [Ripper]- 200% chance of successful murder (kill through protection), or 100% chance of killing twice.




    Special Roles


    These are specialists and can perform unusual tasks in addition to their regular townie or criminal duties. I won't be revealing those here.
    Game Mechanics:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Money/Income


    Everyone makes money. Some earn more than others, depending on their chosen career path. Certain actions also earn money. You want to become rich, that boosts your score. You can also bribe people to do things, if you have money. Mafia need money to pay their gangsters. Without money, mafioso become disloyal and can be recruited by another family. If they don't get paid enough times, they might just decide to whack their own Don....

    Become the richest person of your alignment to boost your score at the end of the game.


    Personal Goals


    Some things you want to do before you die. Accomplish these goals to greatly boost your score. Example:
    Vendetta: The Dons of the Tataglia and Corleone families must die. or
    Jack of all trades: Become skilled at at least 3 different occupations. (I'll try to think of better ones than this...


    Items


    These items can boost your strength, or assist in certain actions, such as robberies, defense, assassination, or deflecting assassinations on yourself. They can be sold at auction or to anyone you wish, or given away. Some are just worth money.

    Example:
    Silenced beretta: Adds +1 strength and adds 10% chance of success when performing a murder.


    Strength


    If you fail an action in a dangerous situation (trying to roleblock a mafioso, trying to steal from a guarded person or business, trying to murder, trying to defend someone, etc) you can lose strength. If you lose all of your strength, you can die. If you are low on strength, you might consider a less dangerous line of work.

    Example:
    Strength 3


    Scoring

    Using a points system similar to the one I used for Resident Evil: Dark Falls, your score will be weighted as follows:

    1. Team victory/Individual Victory (50% of total possible points here)
    2. Rounds of survival (10% of possible points here)
    3. Rounds voted (5% of possible points here)
    4. Rounds with night actions sent in (5% of possible points here)
    5. Total money made during game (10% of possible points here)
    6. Personal Goals completed (10% of possible points here)
    7. Bonus points achieved (10% of possible points here)
    • Last Don Standing- Bonus points
    • Wealthiest Mafioso- Bonus points
    • Wealthiest Criminal- Bonus points
    • Wealthiest Neutral- Bonus points
    • Wealthiest Townie- Bonus points
    • Wealthiest Incorruptible- Bonus points
    Corporations:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    If there's 100 players, there will be 10 starting corporations.

    • Magna Media Enterprises- Advertisement, News, Television, Radio
    • Useful Utilities Company- Power, Water, Gas, Telecommunications
    • Friendly Financial Corporation- Banking, Insurance, Loans, Investments
    • Creative Construction Services- Construction, Demolition, Land clearance
    • Core Computers Limited- Computer hardware/software manufacturing and sales
    • Regal Retail Management- Retail sales, management, and product distribution
    • Evening Entertainment Incorporated- Bars, restaurants, nightclubs, theaters
    • Realistic Real Estate, LLC- Real estate sales, rental and lease properties
    • Serene Security Incorporated- Home and business surveillance, alarms, security systems, personnel
    • Authoritative Automotive Company- Automotive manufacturing, sales, and distribution

    If there's 100 players, there will be 10 starting players per corporation. Each player will be ranked randomly. People can switch corporate affiliations, and therefore some companies might have more than 10 employees. Next to each rank is how much their salary or income is.
    Day Jobs:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    • Owner- $500 per day salary, plus $100 per day per employee (cannot leave company)
    • Chief Executive Officer- $1000 per day salary
    • Chief Financial Officer- $900 per day salary
    • Chief Operations Officer- $800 per day salary
    • Chief Human Resources Officer- $700 per day salary
    • Vice President of management- $600 per day salary
    • General Manager- $500 per day salary
    • Manager- $400 per day salary
    • Assistant Manager- $300 per day salary
    • Supervisor- $200 per day salary
    • Foreman- $150 per day salary
    • Lead personnel- $100 per day salary
    • Senior personnel- $75 per day salary
    • Personnel- $50 per day salary
    • Intern- $0 per day salary


    When someone leaves the company voluntarily or dies:

    Everyone underneath that person is promoted by one rank, or until all ranks in between are filled. Killing your superiors might be one way of advancing up the corporate ladder.

    "Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream?"
    -Homer Simpson



    Recruitment and employment:

    Any member of any corporation can attempt to hire more people for their corporation. All they have to do is offer that person a position. The hired person will immediately become the lowest-ranked member of the corporation, if they agree to switch corporate affiliation. The owner of the corporation will wish to remove the number of employees from rival corporations and add to his own, because that means larger personal profits for himself.

    People can request to not be invited to any new corporations if they wish (for OOC reasons, perhaps.... less private messages clogging up their inbox, or any other reason)

    People who are making a low salary in a large corporation might wish to join a smaller corporation to move higher up the corporate ladder. If they are going for a money or corporate based victory, or have a personal goal involving such a move, they might wish to resign from one company and be hired by another. Smaller corporations therefore have an advantage when hiring people, but their owners make less money. Larger corporations will be worth more when stealing from them, but can afford to hire more security. They might also decide to offer sign-on bonuses to new hires, which might make them more interested to join, even if it means a lower wage.

    No one can fire employees of a corporation... (technically)

    For story purposes, let's suggest the employees and management are unionized, and the firing process is too complicated and takes years to accomplish. Of course, they could be "fired" by the grim reaper.... being dead means you don't collect a paycheck anymore.

    Players can actively seek better opportunities elsewhere...

    By posting their desire for new employment publicly. When contacted by another corporation interested in hiring them, they can list their qualifications (such as experience doing nighttime abilities, or their ability to manipulate the tally, or their ability to appeal a lynch or block a lynch, etc). A player's powers come in handy and if they wish to offer such powers to a corporation, they might be able to negotiate a higher sign-on bonus. All sign-on bonuses must be approved by the Owner of the corporation, since it comes out of his personal finances, unless employees of the corporation got together and pooled some of their own personal cash to create a sign-on bonus. New hires are under no obligation to remain loyal to this corporation... they could accept the sign-on bonus and then quit the company the next day. Obviously such dishonest behavior might be met with reprisals... such as being murdered. A corporation might demand loyalty for x number of rounds, or for the rest of the game, in exchange for such sign-on bonuses. Again the employee is under no real obligation to comply, except under threat of death, perhaps.



    Forming your own corporation:

    So, you feel unappreciated by the corporate establishment? Can't find an awesome job in another company? Well.... ambitious ones might decide to form their own corporation!

    Ah, but it's not as easy as snapping your fingers together. There are some prerequisites.

    1. You must quit your former career and thus become unemployed.
    2. You must convince 4 other players to quit their former career and join your upstart corporation.
    3. The 5 of you must send me a message declaring your intentions to form a corporation, telling me who is the owner and who are the employees, in what rank.
    4. Starting a business isn't cheap. It will cost $5,000 to form your own corporation. You can pool your money together to pay this start-up cost, or the new Owner can bear the full burden if he wishes. The rule is, you cannot spend more money than you have.

    Note: Once you form your own corporation, or you are an owner of a corporation, you CANNOT change corporate alignment.
    Night Jobs

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Your corporate salary and affiliation relates to your "Day job". You get money every day for your corporate Day Job.

    At night (or during the day, if applicable) you moonlight and do a "Night Job". What you earn that night depends on your actions and your experience level.


    • Unskilled (Vanilla) Townsperson- $100 per action.


    • Gumshoe: $150 per action
    • Private Eye: $200 per action
    • Forensic Investigator: $400 per action


    • Nurse: $150 per action
    • Doctor: $300 per action
    • Surgeon: $500 per action


    • Public defender: $150 per action
    • Defense attorney/prosecution attorney: $400 per action
    • District attorney/Judge: $750 per action


    • City Councilor: $50 per action
    • State Senator: $200 per action
    • Congressman: $500 per action
    • Governor: $1000 per action
    • Senator: $800 per action


    • Police Sergeant/Lounge singer: $150 per action
    • Police Lieutentant/Exotic dancer: $250 per action
    • Police Captain/Prostitute: $500 per action


    • Watchman: $100 per action
    • Security guard: $200 per action
    • Personal bodyguard: $300 per action


    • Vigilante: $0 per action
    • Hitman: $0 per action
    • Assassin: $0 per action


    • Crook: $0 per action
    • Thug: $0 per action
    • Gangster: $0 per action
    • Don: $1500 per day (minus expenses for hired goons)
    • Luca: $1000 per day
    • Made: $500 per day
    • Wiseguy: $200 per day
    • F.B.I Level 1- $100 per day
    • F.B.I Level 2- $200 per day
    • F.B.I Level 3- $300 per day
    • Serial Killer Level 1- $50 per day
    • Serial Killer Level 2- $75 per day
    • Serial Killer Level 3- $100 per day
    • Serial Killer Level 4- $200 per day
    • Serial Killer Level 5- $500 per day
    • Special Roles- Salary not revealed
    Team Victory Conditions:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Mafia Victory: One family must become 50% or more of the remaining population of New York (Total Mafia victory)

    Mafia Alliance Victory: Less than 20 players remaining, Other Dons agree to a peace with the largest mafia family (lesser mafia victory, ranked by power and wealth)

    Neutral Victory: All Dons are destroyed and neutral players are the largest remaining faction, and there are no more incorruptible townies remaining. (Total Neutral victory)

    Neutral Alliance Victory: Neutrals agree to a peace with the largest mafia family (lesser mafia victory/neutral victory, ranked by power and wealth)

    Town Victory: All mafia Dons and Serial Killers are destroyed. (Town victory, score based on how many actual townies, incorruptible townies, and neutrals remain)

    F.B.I. Victory:
    All true mafiosi and other criminals are eliminated, F.B.I faction still exists. (Total FBI victory)

    Serial Killer Victory:
    Serial Killers remain alive at the end of the game. (Serial Killer victory)

    Draw by majority agreement: All Serial Killers and FBI are eliminated, less than 10 players remaining, remaining criminals, neutrals, mafiosi, and townies agree to a draw by majority vote. (Draw, ranked by power and wealth)


    Corporate Victory: All Serial Killers and FBI are eliminated, less than 10 players remaining, All remaining players belong to a single corporation and agree to a town/mafia draw by unanimous agreement. (Therefore, only one Owner remaining)

    Note: Owners of corporations cannot change corporate alignment.
    Neutral Alignment:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    • Mafia Gangsters who have lost their Dons and could not form their own family will become Neutral aligned.
    • Corruptible townies who go down the "criminal" career path and remain that way become Neutral aligned.
    • Corruptible townies who go down the "politician" career path and remain that way become Neutral aligned.
    • Incorruptible townies cannot become Neutral aligned.
    • This might be a viable route to victory if there is an intense mafia war in the endgame and not enough townies to win via town victory.
    • This is a viable route to victory for former Mafia gangsters who think they have a better chance siding with the town/neutrals than rejoining a mafia family.
    • Going neutral might assist in your personal quest for wealth or a Corporate victory, since neutrals are less of a threat to the town and the mafia, and can be easily bribed...
    Individual Victory conditions:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    • This means you share the victory with whichever team won the game. You must complete all your personal objectives and survive (if necessary).
    • You are also ranked by total points, so your team can lose and you can fail your personal objectives and die, and still rank very high.








    This post is not finished. I will return to post more, but I need a break.
    Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 07-28-2010 at 06:57.
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  2. #2
    Peerless Senior Member johnhughthom's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    You mention support votes, I've seen them mentioned in the rules of games at CFC but can't remember ever seeing them used never mind actively influence a voting result. How would they work in this?

  3. #3
    Knight of Flowers Member Diamondeye's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Me and Seon would like to claim the SK roles

    Sounds interesting!
    If God is great, and if God is good, why can't he change the hearts of men?"
    -Tom Waits, "The Road to Peace"

  4. #4
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    *Takes off Chinese Communist hat and puts on his Yankees cap*

    Yes.

  5. #5
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by johnhughthom View Post
    You mention support votes, I've seen them mentioned in the rules of games at CFC but can't remember ever seeing them used never mind actively influence a voting result. How would they work in this?
    Support votes:

    These are like negative votes. They are often used to spare someone from a lynch at the last moment when they are forced to reveal they are a special role (like an investigator or doctor or something). A few people switch their lynch votes to support votes, and all of a sudden the tally against a person has dropped by six. That can very much influence the vote.

    It could be used by unscrupulous (read: all) politicians to save certain mafiosi from death... for a price of course. Everything costs money, especially votes.


    Support votes are in green and counter lynch votes.

    Example:

    Quote Originally Posted by tally
    Johnhughthom: (2) Askthepizzaguy, Diamondeye.
    Unvote: Johnhughthom, Support Johnhughthom.

    Quote Originally Posted by tally
    Johnhughthom: (0) Askthepizzaguy, Diamondeye.
    See? Went from 2 votes to zero based on just my support. Worth a penny or two?
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Pizza, you had me at the pizza.

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    winston 4 champs Member Zack's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by johnhughthom View Post
    You mention support votes, I've seen them mentioned in the rules of games at CFC but can't remember ever seeing them used never mind actively influence a voting result. How would they work in this?
    The reason people never use support votes is because it's usually better to just vote for someone else instead of supporting (for various reasons).

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    Member Member Pinman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    This just looks incredible.

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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    The reason people never use support votes is because it's usually better to just vote for someone else instead of supporting (for various reasons).
    Unless there isn't a clear second?

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    Bastion of Sanity Member Captain Blackadder's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    In though I must say that pizza looks horrible soo cheesy


    Coming Soon to a Gameroom Near You

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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    CB, it doesn't matter what a pizza looks like as long as it tastes good.

    However, pineapple and ham have been known to make a pizza look tastier...

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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinman View Post
    This just looks incredible.
    What about the game? Stop ogling the pizza, man! There's a game underneath that!


    I know it is incredibly delicious, but you must resist. The pizza is a lie.
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    I wish all lies tasted that good.

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    Looking for a Cul pRit Member Khazaar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    I enjoyed the NYC pizza, delicious... mhmmmhm. The only worry I have is that all these options are going to make it hard to focus on scumhunting, but this looks rather like Capo upgraded anyways. Maybe the focus is not town vs. maifa but rather who becomes Capo di tutti Capi.

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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Khazaar View Post
    I enjoyed the NYC pizza, delicious... mhmmmhm. The only worry I have is that all these options are going to make it hard to focus on scumhunting, but this looks rather like Capo upgraded anyways. Maybe the focus is not town vs. maifa but rather who becomes Capo di tutti Capi.
    Well not everyone will need to focus on scumhunting.


    I haven't fully explained the game yet but much of it will be, for many players, working towards building your scum family and forming alliances to achieve power and wealth. The mafia families may not all want to destroy each other immediately, perhaps their first goal is grabbing up as many players as they can and building a thriving business, and then trying to protect those interests with the usual mafia muscle.

    Secondly, there will be townspeople who can do down a rather neutral path, focusing on gaining political power and gaining votes, and then selling those votes to the mafia or to dedicated townies seeking justice. Such townies may have mafia contacts and, for a price, would be willing to look the other way. Sure, this means hardcore townies won't like them very much, but it's unlikely to be a move done by a mafia Don himself, so such politicians are not necessarily the first target for vigilantes and so forth. Or maybe they are, and the mafia would be willing to protect them from harm. You see, there's a lot of backscratching between organized crime, business, and politics.

    Thirdly, people who have chosen to be dedicated scumhunters will likely be forming vigilante squads and detective groups and some protection on investigators. So those people will be more focused on scumhunting than anyone else. Maybe they can get the job done.

    The focus is still on town versus mafia, but there's also a focus on personal achievement, personal power, personal wealth, and the power and influence of your team or mafia family. What might be more pressing is the threat the serial killers pose. You might even see some town and mafia cooperation on that point. I can't predict what will happen.

    When I go into the business aspect of the game, and the political aspect of the game, and the money aspect of the game, alternative objectives become clearer for the town and mafia. I'll talk about that soon.
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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Corporations, Day and Night Jobs, and victory conditions: (Still in design phase)




    Ok here's what I have for ideas so far.

    Corporations:

    If there's 100 players, there will be 10 starting corporations.

    • Magna Media Enterprises- Advertisement, News, Television, Radio
    • Useful Utilities Company- Power, Water, Gas, Telecommunications
    • Friendly Financial Corporation- Banking, Insurance, Loans, Investments
    • Creative Construction Services- Construction, Demolition, Land clearance
    • Core Computers Limited- Computer hardware/software manufacturing and sales
    • Regal Retail Management- Retail sales, management, and product distribution
    • Evening Entertainment Incorporated- Bars, restaurants, nightclubs, theaters
    • Realistic Real Estate, LLC- Real estate sales, rental and lease properties
    • Serene Security Incorporated- Home and business surveillance, alarms, security systems, personnel
    • Authoritative Automotive Company- Automotive manufacturing, sales, and distribution

    If there's 100 players, there will be 10 starting players per corporation. Each player will be ranked randomly. People can switch corporate affiliations, and therefore some companies might have more than 10 employees. Next to each rank is how much their salary or income is.





    Day Jobs:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    • Owner- $500 per day salary, plus $100 per day per employee (cannot leave company)
    • Chief Executive Officer- $1000 per day salary
    • Chief Financial Officer- $900 per day salary
    • Chief Operations Officer- $800 per day salary
    • Chief Human Resources Officer- $700 per day salary
    • Vice President of management- $600 per day salary
    • General Manager- $500 per day salary
    • Manager- $400 per day salary
    • Assistant Manager- $300 per day salary
    • Supervisor- $200 per day salary
    • Foreman- $150 per day salary
    • Lead personnel- $100 per day salary
    • Senior personnel- $75 per day salary
    • Personnel- $50 per day salary
    • Intern- $0 per day salary


    When someone leaves the company voluntarily or dies:

    Everyone underneath that person is promoted by one rank, or until all ranks in between are filled. Killing your superiors might be one way of advancing up the corporate ladder.

    "Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream?"
    -Homer Simpson



    Recruitment and employment:

    Any member of any corporation can attempt to hire more people for their corporation. All they have to do is offer that person a position. The hired person will immediately become the lowest-ranked member of the corporation, if they agree to switch corporate affiliation. The owner of the corporation will wish to remove the number of employees from rival corporations and add to his own, because that means larger personal profits for himself.

    People can request to not be invited to any new corporations if they wish (for OOC reasons, perhaps.... less private messages clogging up their inbox, or any other reason)

    People who are making a low salary in a large corporation might wish to join a smaller corporation to move higher up the corporate ladder. If they are going for a money or corporate based victory, or have a personal goal involving such a move, they might wish to resign from one company and be hired by another. Smaller corporations therefore have an advantage when hiring people, but their owners make less money. Larger corporations will be worth more when stealing from them, but can afford to hire more security. They might also decide to offer sign-on bonuses to new hires, which might make them more interested to join, even if it means a lower wage.

    No one can fire employees of a corporation... (technically)

    For story purposes, let's suggest the employees and management are unionized, and the firing process is too complicated and takes years to accomplish. Of course, they could be "fired" by the grim reaper.... being dead means you don't collect a paycheck anymore.

    Players can actively seek better opportunities elsewhere...

    By posting their desire for new employment publicly. When contacted by another corporation interested in hiring them, they can list their qualifications (such as experience doing nighttime abilities, or their ability to manipulate the tally, or their ability to appeal a lynch or block a lynch, etc). A player's powers come in handy and if they wish to offer such powers to a corporation, they might be able to negotiate a higher sign-on bonus. All sign-on bonuses must be approved by the Owner of the corporation, since it comes out of his personal finances, unless employees of the corporation got together and pooled some of their own personal cash to create a sign-on bonus. New hires are under no obligation to remain loyal to this corporation... they could accept the sign-on bonus and then quit the company the next day. Obviously such dishonest behavior might be met with reprisals... such as being murdered. A corporation might demand loyalty for x number of rounds, or for the rest of the game, in exchange for such sign-on bonuses. Again the employee is under no real obligation to comply, except under threat of death, perhaps.



    Forming your own corporation:

    So, you feel unappreciated by the corporate establishment? Can't find an awesome job in another company? Well.... ambitious ones might decide to form their own corporation!

    Ah, but it's not as easy as snapping your fingers together. There are some prerequisites.

    1. You must quit your former career and thus become unemployed.
    2. You must convince 4 other players to quit their former career and join your upstart corporation.
    3. The 5 of you must send me a message declaring your intentions to form a corporation, telling me who is the owner and who are the employees, in what rank.
    4. Starting a business isn't cheap. It will cost $5,000 to form your own corporation. You can pool your money together to pay this start-up cost, or the new Owner can bear the full burden if he wishes. The rule is, you cannot spend more money than you have.

    Note: Once you form your own corporation, or you are an owner of a corporation, you CANNOT change corporate alignment.



    Night Jobs

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Your corporate salary and affiliation relates to your "Day job". You get money every day for your corporate Day Job.

    At night (or during the day, if applicable) you moonlight and do a "Night Job". What you earn that night depends on your actions and your experience level.


    • Unskilled (Vanilla) Townsperson- $100 per action.


    • Gumshoe: $150 per action
    • Private Eye: $200 per action
    • Forensic Investigator: $400 per action


    • Nurse: $150 per action
    • Doctor: $300 per action
    • Surgeon: $500 per action


    • Public defender: $150 per action
    • Defense attorney/prosecution attorney: $400 per action
    • District attorney/Judge: $750 per action


    • City Councilor: $50 per action
    • Congressman: $200 per action
    • Senator: $500 per action
    • Governor (incumbent): $1000 per action
    • Senator (incumbent): $800 per action


    • Police Sergeant/Lounge singer: $150 per action
    • Police Lieutentant/Exotic dancer: $250 per action
    • Police Captain/Prostitute: $500 per action


    • Watchman: $100 per action
    • Security guard: $200 per action
    • Personal bodyguard: $300 per action


    • Vigilante: $0 per action
    • Hitman: $0 per action
    • Assassin: $0 per action


    • Crook: $0 per action
    • Thug: $0 per action
    • Gangster: $0 per action
    • Don: $1500 per day (minus expenses for hired goons)
    • Luca: $1000 per day
    • Made: $500 per day
    • Wiseguy: $200 per day
    • F.B.I Level 1- $100 per day
    • F.B.I Level 2- $200 per day
    • F.B.I Level 3- $300 per day
    • Serial Killer Level 1- $50 per day
    • Serial Killer Level 2- $75 per day
    • Serial Killer Level 3- $100 per day
    • Serial Killer Level 4- $200 per day
    • Serial Killer Level 5- $500 per day
    • Special Roles- Salary not revealed




    Team Victory Conditions:


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Mafia Victory: One family must become 50% or more of the remaining population of New York (Total Mafia victory)

    Mafia Alliance Victory: Less than 20 players remaining, Other Dons agree to a peace with the largest mafia family (lesser mafia victory, ranked by power and wealth)

    Neutral Victory: All Dons are destroyed and neutral players are the largest remaining faction, and there are no more incorruptible townies remaining. (Total Neutral victory)

    Neutral Alliance Victory: Neutrals agree to a peace with the largest mafia family (lesser mafia victory/neutral victory, ranked by power and wealth)

    Town Victory: All mafia Dons and Serial Killers are destroyed. (Town victory, score based on how many actual townies, incorruptible townies, and neutrals remain)

    F.B.I. Victory:
    All true mafiosi and other criminals are eliminated, F.B.I faction still exists. (Total FBI victory)

    Serial Killer Victory:
    Serial Killers remain alive at the end of the game. (Serial Killer victory)

    Draw by majority agreement: All Serial Killers and FBI are eliminated, less than 10 players remaining, remaining criminals, neutrals, mafiosi, and townies agree to a draw by majority vote. (Draw, ranked by power and wealth)


    Corporate Victory: All Serial Killers and FBI are eliminated, less than 10 players remaining, All remaining players belong to a single corporation and agree to a town/mafia draw by unanimous agreement. (Therefore, only one Owner remaining)

    Note: Owners of corporations cannot change corporate alignment.




    Neutral Alignment:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    • Mafia Gangsters who have lost their Dons and could not form their own family will become Neutral aligned.
    • Corruptible townies who go down the "criminal" career path and remain that way become Neutral aligned.
    • Corruptible townies who go down the "politician" career path and remain that way become Neutral aligned.
    • Incorruptible townies cannot become Neutral aligned.
    • This might be a viable route to victory if there is an intense mafia war in the endgame and not enough townies to win via town victory.
    • This is a viable route to victory for former Mafia gangsters who think they have a better chance siding with the town/neutrals than rejoining a mafia family.
    • Going neutral might assist in your personal quest for wealth or a Corporate victory, since neutrals are less of a threat to the town and the mafia, and can be easily bribed...



    Individual Victory conditions:

    • This means you share the victory with whichever team won the game. You must complete all your personal objectives and survive (if necessary).
    • You are also ranked by total points, so your team can lose and you can fail your personal objectives and die, and still rank very high.
    Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 06-27-2010 at 04:50.
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    still making Bowser jokes Member Roach Kill Champion, Donkey Rocket Champion Double A's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    So Pizza, what's the difference between cops and hookers?

    Uh... besides the obvious, anyway.

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    winston 4 champs Member Zack's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Can''t wait!

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    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    100 players? You'd be lucky to get that many, and if you did, I'd wager 20-40 inactives.

    Too complicated for me, I'd have to pass on this one.
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    Anyone who wishes to refer to me as peverlemur is free to do so.

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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Double A View Post
    So Pizza, what's the difference between cops and hookers?

    Uh... besides the obvious, anyway.
    Players can request to perform their actions as a cop or as a dancer. Some people, macho types mostly, might not take kindly to the idea of dressing their awesome character up in drag and trolling the streets offering "love" for pay. For ease of writeup purposes, everyone in the game will be referred to as "he" by default, except when their identity is known to be otherwise. (Such as when lynching a female player, or a female player is being murdered)

    When you think of Mafia Dons, you think of men; it would seem strange for Don Tataglia to dress up like a hooker. But I guess if he really wants to... that's why if he's dressing up like a cop, it might make more sense. But that's for aesthetic purposes.

    Having people "arrested" every night, multiple times a night, can get pretty dry, write-up wise. Having businessmen, mobsters, and politicians seduced by the ladies would make the writeups a bit more interesting to read. Of course, businesswomen, female gangsters, and female politicians could always be seduced by male strippers and so forth. And I'm not necessarily limiting that to opposite-sex pairings either. Perhaps Senator so and so likes his strippers to have hair on their chest. I'm not all that concerned with the gender aspect, but some people might be.

    If there are any other differences between roleblocker cops and roleblocker strippers, I haven't decided yet.
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    What about making one illegal and one legal?

    (obviously the cop would be the illegal one and the strippers would be legal )

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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Double A View Post
    What about making one illegal and one legal?

    (obviously the cop would be the illegal one and the strippers would be legal )
    Well, the problem there is the why.

    Why would I do one or the other. What purpose does it serve, and wouldn't it reveal something about the person doing the blocking?

    See I wanted to do it like the incorruptibles were cops and the corruptibles were strippers, but the issue there is that it acts as a poor man's investigation against the person in question. I don't want to make it mean anything or make it too revealing, see?

    So if it related to something in-game, then it would reveal too much. Still, I'm toying with ideas. Let me know if you have any.
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    What about the assassin? What if you want to vig someone?

    Oh wait, yeah murder is against the law isn't it?

    Oh! What about trackers? That would be a twist.

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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Double A View Post
    What about the assassin? What if you want to vig someone?
    These seem like vague questions. Can you be more specific?

    Oh! What about trackers? That would be a twist.
    There might be roles in the game that I haven't mentioned, to cut down on the vanilla-ness of the game. But if you see a role isn't listed, it either won't be in the game or it will remain a secret. Don't you worry, I am aware of most kind of mafia roles and have included all that I wish to.
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    still making Bowser jokes Member Roach Kill Champion, Donkey Rocket Champion Double A's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    These seem like vague questions. Can you be more specific?
    I meant what if you killed someone not for the mafia, and weren't an SK.

    There might be roles in the game that I haven't mentioned, to cut down on the vanilla-ness of the game. But if you see a role isn't listed, it either won't be in the game or it will remain a secret. Don't you worry, I am aware of most kind of mafia roles and have included all that I wish to.
    Well, with 100 people, you're bound to

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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Double A View Post
    I meant what if you killed someone not for the mafia, and weren't an SK.
    There are several ways to kill in this game.

    1. As a serial killer, that's pretty much what you'll be wanting every night. (Serial Killer)
    2. As a mafia scumbag, you can perform a murder quite easily with another or a group of your brethren. (Mafia gangster)
    3. As a townsperson or neutral who wishes to perform some scumtastic tasks, you could go out and murder someone. (Neutral/criminal)
    4. As a townsperson training to be a vigilante/hitman/assassin, you can vigilante kill. (Town/Neutral)

    What are the differences?

    A serial killer will never need to work with anyone else to perform a murder, but they can if they wish.
    A mafioso will likely need to work with someone else to perform a murder. Only a mafia Don could perform a murder alone, and I might reserve that for if their whole family gets destroyed.
    Townies or former gangsters who perform criminal acts (theft, dealing, murder) will be able to perform a kill, but with a greater "criminal" impact on their alignment and may be misread as mafia when investigated.
    Townies who confine their work to just hunting certain suspects (vigilantism) will focus on just performing kills. They will get some kind of bonus for doing this. Perhaps they will be less likely to be caught or wounded during the kill attempt than townies on the "criminal" path would.

    All of these forms of murder are against the law, but then again so is lynching. This is a nearly lawless city in a state of martial law. Lynching someone or killing them in the name of vigilante justice will have little or no impact on your alignment. Performing murders as a scumbag or townie criminal will have an impact on your alignment (and proficiency).

    • A Mafia Don will usually be the most skilled at performing a murder.
    • A serial killer or townie assassin will be the next most skilled.
    • High ranking mafiosi will be the next most skilled.
    • Less skilled vigilantes and mafia wiseguys will be the next most skilled.
    • Finally, amateur criminals (townies on the criminal career path) trying to bust heads will not be very proficient at it.



    Does that even answer your question? I'm still not sure what you're asking, exactly.



    EDIT: Come to think of it, the "Ripper" level of Serial killer easily matches a mafia don. So yes, they can become equal.
    Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 06-27-2010 at 11:42.
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    still making Bowser jokes Member Roach Kill Champion, Donkey Rocket Champion Double A's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Yes, it does. Thanks Pizza!

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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Perhaps some numbers would help,

    A Mafia Don will usually be the most skilled at performing a murder. (This means his chance of performing a successful kill will quickly climb over 100%, in other words having a chance to murder through protection, and at some point will have a 200% chance, which kills through almost any protection.)

    A serial killer
    will be the next most skilled. (They start off under 100%, but can climb to 200%, making them as deadly as the deadliest Mafia Don)

    High ranking mafiosi or townie assassin will be the next most skilled. (Even untrained, gangsters performing a kill correctly, with the right numbers involved, begin at 100% as a base standard, then you add in items and any other multipliers. Townie assassins will be formidable, once trained.)

    Less skilled vigilantes and mafia wiseguys will be the next most skilled. (These roles will kill at close to, but not quite, 100% efficiency against an unarmed target)

    Finally, amateur criminals trying to bust heads will not be very proficient at it. (There will be considerably less than 100% efficiency, and there will be a fair chance of being caught or injured in the process)
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    still making Bowser jokes Member Roach Kill Champion, Donkey Rocket Champion Double A's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Yeah that helps

  30. #30
    winston 4 champs Member Zack's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    I'm not seeing anything about strippers or hookers, am I missing something in the rules?

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