Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

[DaVinci]

General discussion goes here, also notes about update releases etc.

(This has been the thread starting post, which is now a sticky single post; many in this thread included posts have been moved by me in the meantime to the separate threads).

[DaVinci]

Damn, this is extreme hard stuff now, 2nd trial with Shimazu H/H fails, have to give up :( ... didn't happen with the basic S2R ... i think i need to lower the campaign challenge/difficulty somehow for the human player on H/H, i'll think about some things.

[DaVinci]

1st post updated with a slightly softened version 1.1, alternative, for the ones who find it too hard currently on H/H. Edit: Removed the v1.1 update file. An update will some time later.

Edit: Wow, i discovered a strange vanilla bug. I thought my update v1.1 is somehow buggy, but then i had the same symptom with the former version, with older versions ... and then also with vanilla.
The bug is: Playing Shimazu, 1st turn, going to fulfill the mission to capture the neighborhood enemy settlement which has a little army outside of the settlement ... if you position your Shimazu army so that you can just see this army and click on it to look at it, the game crashes ... also with vanilla (only one trial worked, but from 10 trials it is one that does not crash). I formerly modified the v1.1 to see if it makes a difference etc., diverse things, then also verified the gamecache via Steam. Nothing solved that crash.

[vuvihu]

@Da Vince: excellent mod, i really like the non-tech requirement for samurai recruiment...AI stacks seem to be a bit more balances.

however, i got a couple of question:
1, how to increase the cap for samurai and bow ashigaru. For example, about 50 turns my H/H Oda campaign, the unit cap for bow ashigaru, bow samurai, naginata sam., horse archers, yari sam. are 3,4,2,2,2.
Isnt it supposed to be 10 for each kind of samurai? Either building additional dojos or upgrading current ones doesn't help
2, why naginata monk cavs have +7 bonus vs cavalry? They are already good at melee. Can you please explain this?

Other gameplay mods I'm using: UAI, realm divide, double prestige

[DaVinci]

@Da Vince: excellent mod, i really like the non-tech requirement for samurai recruiment...AI stacks seem to be a bit more balances.

however, i got a couple of question:
1, how to increase the cap for samurai and bow ashigaru. For example, about 50 turns my H/H Oda campaign, the unit cap for bow ashigaru, bow samurai, naginata sam., horse archers, yari sam. are 3,4,2,2,2.
Isnt it supposed to be 10 for each kind of samurai? Either building additional dojos or upgrading current ones doesn't help
2, why naginata monk cavs have +7 bonus vs cavalry? They are already good at melee. Can you please explain this?

Other gameplay mods I'm using: UAI, realm divide, double prestige

Thanks for playtesting. I would be interested how you get on with Oda on H/H, with mentioning the year etc. circumstances, can you reach the campaign goals? How are doing it the other major (AI) factions?
Important, because i would like to know, if my v1.1 changes (on parking now: making it slightly easier money-wise) is necessary or not for the general balance of the campaign on H/H.
Also, please start a next campaign without the UAI, because my goal is to have it properly without that extra mod, and anyway including CAI files as well (one which gives recruitment priorities is in S2R(+) contained).

Else, i have capped Samurai recruitment differently from the basic S2R setup, what you get now is what you can get in S2R+. This design is in my opinion more realistic, than to have 10 Samurai per type available, Samurai were just rare for the period and became more rare towards the end of the period due the losses*, so Ashigaru replaced their "positions", and also should prevent the human player from spamming them and exploit it vs. the AI which is steered to a degree by the CAI recruitment codes.

However, the main backbone of the Senguko armies should be the Ashigaru Yari guys, which have the chance to become more performant during the campaign with collecting exp due to battle and due to gameplay exp boni additions. There for also the other Ashigaru types (Yumi, Naginata and Sword) got certain roles/stats and caps. The Samurai should present your rare but precious elites, and the more the campaign advances the more you should rely on Ashigaru, if you expand with your realm, because you must govern/control more lands. This is then historical realism reflection for the campaign towards the end of the period.

As for the +7 cav bonus i'll look into it, anyways naginata gives cav bonus, it is a weapon both for inf and cav combat, it is a polearm, and in the case of warrior monks, they are just elite warriors, have to change that if they are completely imbalanced though.

* Ie. more realistic would be to have a quite good amount of Samurai's at the start of the campaign, then only very very rare reinforcement Samurai recruitment, which vanishes then towards the end of the campaign completely, latest at about 1590-1600.

[notger]

Hi DaVinci:

I appreciate your mod or more precisely your more realistic approach to early samurai recruitment. Feels much better.
I am currently playing Oda on M/M (as I always do). Though this is not H/H, as you required, I can say that an early peace offer against the Satai(?) really pays off.

Cheers
Notger.


Edit: Are there different unit caps representing different tactical inclinations of the factions? There was a great post over at twcenter, where the army composition of different daimyos was stated (you sure read it ... you answered to it ;) ) and the differences were enormous. I would love to see that in-game, too, as long as it does not destroy flexibility. (Possibly via mutually exclusive research paths, that let you chose your style?)

[vuvihu]

1.

Thanks for playtesting. I would be interested how you get on with Oda on H/H, with mentioning the year etc. circumstances, can you reach the campaign goals? How are doing it the other major (AI) factions?
Important, because i would like to know, if my v1.1 changes (on parking now: making it slightly easier money-wise) is necessary or not for the general balance of the campaign on H/H. Also, please start a next campaign without the UAI, because my goal is to have it properly without that extra mod, and anyway including CAI files as well (one which gives recruitment priorities is in S2R(+) contained).

I made a peace treaty with saito in the 1st turn, then gradually expanded around the owari area. By 1557, I have 13 provinces, all around kyoto and owari (not including kyoto itself) plus those that origionally belonged to tokugawa and imagawa. I allied myself with hojo and takeda, who also control 7,8 provinces apiece. My vassal Sakai also have like 4 provinces above Kyoto. I control 5 outa 6 trade nods, captured the black ship and having net income of like 9k/year. I could easily win the campaign if I continued playing it.
Overall, I just find it just slightly harder than my Hojo campaign with S2R .311 cos the AI stacks now seem to have at least like several samurai/cav units rather than all ashigaru. Also, money is a bit easier now (dont exactly know why, probly cos you dont have many samurai units as before)

Else, i have capped Samurai recruitment differently from the basic S2R setup, what you get now is what you can get in S2R+. This design is in my opinion more realistic, than to have 10 Samurai types available, Samurai were just rare for the period and became more rare towards the end of the period due the losses*, so Ashigaru replaced their "positions", and also should prevent the human player from spamming them and exploit it vs. the AI which is steered to a degree by the CAI recruitment codes.

IMO, the cap is fine if you only have like 3-4 province and one stack, but as you expand and have multiple stacks, the fixed cap is a bit annoying cos you still only have 3 bow ashigaru, 4 bow samurai, etc to spread out between your stacks. As a result, if you have like 4 stacks, your army would mostly consist of yari ashigaru plus about 3 samurai units, maybe matchlock ashigaru as well cause they are fairly easy to recruit now.
Personally, I'd like the cap gradually increases as you expand (such as by building additional dojo or upgrading current ones, or by increasing prominent level so if you become the shogun you can have like 10 or maybe like 6,7 units of each samurai types)

[DaVinci]

Hi DaVinci:

I appreciate your mod or more precisely your more realistic approach to early samurai recruitment. Feels much better.
I am currently playing Oda on M/M (as I always do). Though this is not H/H, as you required, I can say that an early peace offer against the Satai(?) really pays off.

Cheers
Notger.


Edit: Are there different unit caps representing different tactical inclinations of the factions? There was a great post over at twcenter, where the army composition of different daimyos was stated (you sure read it ... you answered to it ;) ) and the differences were enormous. I would love to see that in-game, too, as long as it does not destroy flexibility. (Possibly via mutually exclusive research paths, that let you chose your style?)

I know which post you mean. I'll look into this some time in future, and might reflect something of this layout, but then i have to judge on the impact on the AI and gameplay, i'll see.

[drone]

Thanks for the updates, DaVinci.

A bunch of new members here, welcome to the Org!

[DaVinci]

Thanks for the updates, DaVinci.

A bunch of new members here, welcome to the Org!

The Org, once THE site for TW game modding, needs a renaissance in this regard.

Actually the Org was the first TW fansite which i visited as i purchased M1TW and looked for a forum (but didn't register, just first far later as i started modding).

I personally always kept contact to the Org with making at least release notes about several modding projects where i was involved, but hadn't ever much time to post here as well.

Maybe i can lure some TWC members (S2 mod players) to this S2 modding forum here ;)

[DaVinci]

1st post again updated: Version 1.2 available.

It's a due combat stats revision, see changelog.

[Kagemusha]

Thank you for keeping us updated.

[Breepzz]

Since you has gone from TWC the mod take two directions, which one of the mod version is the most complete and the most realistic?

Can you Add (like darthmod) the catapult sooner recruitable, realism needed... I prefer realism mod than darthmod, but this last one is more complete for now: catapult, Projectile explosions now have more realistic effects (they do not launch the troops to space...), etc etc. I think you need to read the darthmod changelog to to have inspiration or remind ;)

Compatible with AUM unit mod?

[DaVinci]

Since you has gone from TWC the mod take two directions, which one of the mod version is the most complete and the most realistic?

Can you Add (like darthmod) the catapult sooner recruitable, realism needed... I prefer realism mod than darthmod, but this last one is more complete for now: catapult, Projectile explosions now have more realistic effects (they do not launch the troops to space...), etc etc. I think you need to read the darthmod changelog to to have inspiration or remind ;)

Compatible with AUM unit mod?

Hello, as you read in the OP, the S2R+ is a pure personal version, that means i modify all that on my own personalised pace, aside to real life, where i'm a free lancing engineer/architect/consultant, and projects are sometimes extreme time consuming, and sometimes i have a lot free time. The starting S2R was a project/timewise of the ladder kind. Now it's all different. Besides this, i have serious technical connection issues with TWC since April 2011, which hinders me to "work" in an usual manner on TWC. So i said i'll continue something for Shogun 2 on tw.org.

As for contents and its updates, all thoughts and suggestions are welcome, but bear with me, if sometimes updates happen quick and sometimes not, i'll look into things step by step. This is all dependent on my free time and when i playtest the mod and find things which i must change etc. along my own view of priority. The S2R+ on tw.org here is completely independent from the S2R on twcenter.net.

My last internal update is a change for the ranges of matchlocks and bows (matchlocks increased, above a normal bow), but i think i'll do some other things before i upload that version.

EDIT

Update - apparently my twcenter.net issues are solved, read also here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...71#post9374571 ... see post # 988, around.
However, that won't change the situation in regard of S2R+ on tw.org and S2R on twcenter.net. Reasons, see above.

[Rycalawre]

Hi there.

We started our first campaing with the realism mod (Oda). But we already face a misterious problem: We can't build Post Roads. It says: You cannot build this at this time.

Why is this????
We don't see any further restrictions or arts we need. Please help!!!!

Rycalawre

[GShock]

What version are you playing?
Are you sure the S2R+ pack is the only file you have in the data folder? (possible conflict with other mods?)

[DaVinci]

We can't build Post Roads. It says: You cannot build this at this time.

Post Roads need arts Todofuken and Equal Fields researched, and of course the according money.

If it doesn't work there in your install, then you must have a bug in your install of whatever sort.

[Rycalawre]

It works fine now. I didn't research equal fields at that time and it didn't show me that I had to research it to build the post roads. So I was a little confused.

Anyways, great mod, it's multiple time more fun than the vanilla version.

Thx for your help!

[DaVinci]

Always check the art tree (that shows the requirement!), not the building-info alone, as S2R+ has a lot changes in this area ;)