Westeros: A Game of Thrones.

[johnhughthom]

Robert Baratheon is dead. His son Joffrey is too young to rule, his Hand, Ned Stark, is Baratheon's choice of regent, a choice sure to offend his widow and her family. George RR Martin has told his story of the aftermath, perhaps a different story could be told?

Westeros: A Game of Thrones is a game similar to my previous Crusader Kings. There will be some differences (not least the fact I will upload a back up of the game files to FileFront or somewhere similar to prevent a similar finish), mainly the setting but also the fact that players will not take the role of a single character, but a House within the gameworld. Each House will have a number of characters with differing skills and personal goals. Each house can have more than one player, but there will be no "leader" so they will have to come to an agreement on orders.

Example:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That dirty Lannister owes me gold!

This is very much a work in progress and it could be a while before it's ready. There a number of question I haven't quite decided on, like how to show House Baratheon, Joffrey, Stannis and Renly could hardly be part of one faction!

The gameplay would be very like Crusader Kings, experimentation and creative thinking very much encouraged.

Ideas on how gameplay could be improved upon from Crusader Kings, or just general feedback on the idea are welcome.

[White_eyes:D]

I am going to guess you played the Westeros mod for CK?

I managed to become the King of the five Kingdoms...The Riverlands, Stormlands, Dorne, The Vale, and The Iron throne. I couldn't get the Kingdom of the west because it always is ruled by a competent Lannister for some reason...and the North was just too far away from me and I just decided to give the Starks a break(also because I just marry my rulers daughters off to there family).

Only time I almost lost was when I was fighting The Riverlands and The Vale declared war to try and double-team me. I was a little surprised that the King in the North never declared war once, even to help the stormlands out. I even made an alliance with the Lannisters and I didn't even really need it.

Why not just use the map in CK? or is it to bad looking?

[johnhughthom]

I haven't gotten around to playing the CK mod yet, I'd heard it was pretty buggy. I found quite a few maps online, the one I posted seemed the clearest with all the important landmarks.

I've been thinking about factions, these seem to be the best set up.

Lannisters
Starks
Greyjoys
Dragonstone (Stannis)
Martell
Storms End (Renly)
Highgarden

Non player factions

King Joffrey
Small council
Arryns
Night's Watch

Other houses will have minor roles as part of the playable factions, such as the Boltons, Frey, Cleganes etc. They may not like how they are used however and can change sides.

[White_eyes:D]

Yeah, it's buggy...but I fiddle around with it myself, as long as CTDs remain at a minimum. What I hate about it is that, you can have wars for a VERY LONG time...it took me 4 years to successfully siege Kings landing and Storms end. I had to fight off endless forces from the Baratheons...by the time I was done, I gladly reenacted the "Red wedding" on them.(the hair that broke the camels back)

It also gives you "Realm duress" for the rest of your rulers life if you even have it once....I had to rewrite an event to cancel it if your not at war. Seemed pretty stable so far...but I find all paradox games buggy.

I am not sure how everything would work without a map though.

[johnhughthom]

I am not sure how everything would work without a map though.

It's just a forum based game, based on a forum based game based on Crusader Kings. Pretty simple really.

[Beskar]

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[Beskar]

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[johnhughthom]

Would Storms End really work as it is effectively the High Garden faction?

I was going to put Renly in with Highgarden, then changed my mind. I'm still in two minds about it as I'd like players to have as many options as possible at the start.

Removing Storms End as a faction and replacing it with Dorne might be an idea, in an attempt to keep the factions more inline with the main kingdoms.

Martell = Dorne.

What about major landmarks such as King's Landing (the council/etc) and Harrenhal ?

Those locations are on the map and the small council (Varys, Littlefinger and Pycelle) are a non player faction advising the non player King.

Though do you want a Jaime player, or Littlefinger player or Varys ? It all depends on how complicated you want it and how many would be interested.

Players won't be, say Jaime or Tyrion in particular, each player (or team) will give orders for their House, which will include orders for individuals, armies etc. Characters will have traits, so if you try to order Jaime to hold a certain place on the map, don't be surprised if he says "bugger that!" and goes off and attacks somewhere else. Or if you order Tyrion to go to a certain city and perform an action he may get distracted by the brothels...

Use the various Kingdom's as references. In a way, probably think of it like Mount and Blade. You need to have a ruler with sufficient claimant to the throne or a throne, so Robb Stark has claims for King of the North. Joffery for King of the Seven (along with Stannis), Theon for pure example for King of the Iron Isles.

Then you have the various 'dukedoms'/powerful houses who may not claim a Kingship but they can rally to the cause for one of the various lords in exchange for certain things, or none at all and attempt to stay neutral.

Yes, I would hope the early game would be a diplomatic scramble for support. Though there are certain factors players would know of that shouldn't really be common knowledge, mainly Joffrey's parentage.

I think the Free Cities should be NPC controlled though.

I think it would be best to limit the game to Westeros to keep it simple.

[Beskar]

(I realised the Dorne comment and came to correct it and a couple of other comments but you beat me to it!)

Also, on the third book now.

[Double A]

I LOVE YOU

[TheLastDays]

I liked Crusader Kings so I guess I'll play, I don't know anything about Game of Thrones though, which could be a problem

[johnhughthom]

Any ideas on how Crusader Kings could have been improved on for this guys?

I liked Crusader Kings so I guess I'll play, I don't know anything about Game of Thrones though, which could be a problem

So long as we get enough people you should be in a team and others could fill you in on the background. You should at least watch the first episode of the tv series, not even for the game it'll help fill that empty part of your life you didn't know existed until then.

[Kagemusha]

This sounds very interesting.

[Diamondeye]

YESGASM

[TheLastDays]

Any ideas on how Crusader Kings could have been improved on for this guys?

Well I thought that the position of the Bishop was a bit loosely defined. IMO characters like that would have to have pretty strict parameters to operate in and clearly set goals so they can't jut go ahead and ally themselves to one of the forces and forget about the others. They have to be forced to try to "keep the balance". But as it looks you're planning to make characters like that unplayable anyway...

[Diamondeye]

I liked Crusader Kings so I guess I'll play, I don't know anything about Game of Thrones though, which could be a problem

I'm going to be frank and suggest that you either read the books (at least the first one) or seriously consider not playing. Even if this is an alternate storyline, some things are sure to surface that might ruin your experience of the book(s).

I'm reading Dance currently, the fifth and last to be published so far (Winds of Winter is to come later, I believe).

[johnhughthom]

Well I thought that the position of the Bishop was a bit loosely defined. IMO characters like that would have to have pretty strict parameters to operate in and clearly set goals so they can't jut go ahead and ally themselves to one of the forces and forget about the others. They have to be forced to try to "keep the balance". But as it looks you're planning to make characters like that unplayable anyway...

Yes, I learned that characters I wanted to keep a certain balance in the game would be best as NPCs.

I was looking at this as a list of skills to determine outcome of actions:

Leadership
Honour
Bravery
Intrigue
Dread

[Beskar]

The Westeros CK mod has a nice map and some very fitting traits, though the scenario start dates does not have the period you are wanting.

There are also the different religions (3) and the different cultures (4) which might need to be taken in consideration too.

Shame you haven't put the Dragon as a playable faction, that is one I would be likely to consider choosing if I had a choice!

[johnhughthom]

The Westeros CK mod has a nice map and some very fitting traits, though the scenario start dates does not have the period you are wanting.

I think I'll give it a whirl, see if it gives me some inspiration.

There are also the different religions (3) and the different cultures (4) which might need to be taken in consideration too.

Ahh, good point, shouldn't it be 4 religions though, or does the mod lump Melisandre's God in with The Seven?

Shame you haven't put the Dragon as a playable faction, that is one I would be likely to consider choosing if I had a choice!

There wouldn't really be much interaction with the other houses at the early stage of the game, I haven't ruled out trying to fit them in, every idea I've had for them has added a lot of work host wise.

[Diamondeye]

I had the impression that the three Faiths were The Red Priests, The Seven, and the Old Gods. Which fourth were you thinking of?

[johnhughthom]

The Drowned God from the Iron Isles. Or is he part of the old gods?

[Diamondeye]

The Drowned God from the Iron Isles. Or is he part of the old gods?

Right, that makes it four. But they're barbarians.

[Beskar]

Yes, the Drowned God, I forgot to mention them in the number.

The others obviously being R'hllor, The Seven and the Old Gods.

As for cultures, there are the Wildings/Free men, Andal, First Man, Valyrian, Ironborn, Crannogman, Dornish, Lysene, Dothraki, Myrman, Tyroshi, Braavosi, Pentoshi, Westerman, Westrosi and Clansman.

[Double A]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=470051
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=721

[johnhughthom]

Oh, an M2TW mod. Didn't even know that existed, thanks for the link, think I'll give that a whirl.

[Gurkhal]

This looks very interesting and I hope it turns out as great as it sounds. :) I'll keep my eye on this and hopefully be able to join once its gets ready. In regards to Crusader Kings I did not take part in that and so can't say anything, although I think it would be cool if the players actually played specific characters from the books which could make it easier with personal goals for the players. Considering how many characters there are the game should be able to support almost infinate numer of players. Heck, just the Lannisters have like nine characters that could work for players, and that's not counting their lords bannermen. Still I understand your choice and I do not doubt it will turn out great. Best of luck and all success in the world!

[johnhughthom]

Thanks Gurkhal, I'll drop you a pm when the game is nearly ready to go. As for playing specific character, I don't want inactivity to spoil the game, and having certain people go AWOL or drop out would have a serious impact on the game. If they had team mates their disappearance would be easier to manage. I see your point though, it would be more immersive to be a single character, I haven't decided 100% on any aspect of the game at the minute, so it could change in the future, with enough people participating. If I'm honest though, I don't see the game getting enough players to make the change.

[Gurkhal]

Thanks, I appreciate that. I'll look forward to get to action in Westeros. :)

[Double A]

Why has this not filled up 3 times over?

[johnhughthom]

What sort of in-game timescale per turn do you guys think would work. I'm thinking of each turn being a week, Monday - Friday for discussion and sending orders and Saturday and Sunday for write ups and results. The write ups would be a narrative, obviously I wouldn't be able to post everything in thread but there would be a public general write up of what happened each round, while the private results would be a narrative from the perspective of one of the House members, changing each phase. As for in game time frame each turn I'm unsure, a week, a month?