Going for a new AAR - Suggestions?

[LotW89]

I just decided to make an AAR, but I'll let you decide which faction you want to see
It's a multiple choice poll
Of course I have rules for my AAR:

1. Playing VH/M with no battle time limit (BI 1.6 and EB 1.2)
2. Any town with stone walls or better must be sieged into surrender or sally, no assaulting
3. Routers must only get chased by light infantry and cavalry
4. Rebel army must be destroyed or after 2 years I'm forced to crush them with my current town garrison
5. I can't transport a full stack army with just a single ship, should be a whole fleet
6. Faction expansion depends on the faction leader's traits
7. Generals and Captains fight only if absolutely necessary

But there exist exceptions sometimes.

If you want to have more rules or restrictions you can suggest it

That's all for now. So it's your turn

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Ptolemies, they don't get enough good AARs.

We've got some nice Seleucid ones already, time for a Ptolemaic one to go with them.

Suggested house rules:
Town-building has funding priority over recruiting unless Ptolemy-owned territory is being invaded. (This is to discourage blitzing at the start.)
Only light infantry and cavalry allowed to chase down routers. Heavy infantry always in guard mode.
Any territory with a rebel army in it for more than 2 years must be evacuated by its garrison, put on Very High taxes, and allowed to rebel. Then the rebel army must be destroyed before you take the territory back. (Forces you to fight rebels and not ignore them.)
Any town with stone walls or better must be seiged into surrender or sally, and not assaulted (unless you have Stone Projectors to break down the walls). (Gives the AI time to respond to the seige, and prevents quick, easy assaults on under-defended major cities.)
Behave in a civilised Hellenic manner, always accept 'End Battle' message, don't 'continue battle' just to slaughter routers (that's for barbarian Gauls and Romans.)

[seleucid empire]

saba please, there are no finished saba ones out there. they usually unite arabia and end the story there :(

there are already quite a few good Ptolemy ones actually

[Pikenier]

I would go for Saba or Hayasdan. Two small factions that will face mighty enemies soon and ensure a thrilling campaign.
But when you prefer a european faction how about the Getai?
The atm leading Ptolies are a very easy faction. On the other side Marcellus Scato is right, there are not many AAR´s for them.

No reloading, what happens happens

This is no house rule imho. Instead common sense when playing a strategy game. It wouldn´t be any challenge or in any way satisfying when playing a TW game using reloads after loosing any battle or town.

[LotW89]

Looking at the poll the faction will currently be Saba or Ptolemy, I think I wait one or two days more

Suggested house rules:
Town-building has funding priority over recruiting unless Ptolemy-owned territory is being invaded. (This is to discourage blitzing at the start.)

Good one, I will consider it. But at the start I will blitz some cities (1 - 3) because else I'll be in dept.

Only light infantry and cavalry allowed to chase down routers. Heavy infantry always in guard mode.

So you want that I have only heavy infantry in towns to guard or do you mean guard mode in battle? That will be difficult, because I can't recruit heavy infantry right from the start.

Any territory with a rebel army in it for more than 2 years must be evacuated by its garrison, put on Very High taxes, and allowed to rebel. Then the rebel army must be destroyed before you take the territory back. (Forces you to fight rebels and not ignore them.)

I'll kill them all Well I think I could do this, if I missed a rebel army somewhere.

Any town with stone walls or better must be seiged into surrender or sally, and not assaulted (unless you have Stone Projectors to break down the walls). (Gives the AI time to respond to the seige, and prevents quick, easy assaults on under-defended major cities.)

I hate assaulting towns, so I'll put that into the rules

Behave in a civilised Hellenic manner, always accept 'End Battle' message, don't 'continue battle' just to slaughter routers (that's for barbarian Gauls and Romans.)

If I'm going to play a Hellenic faction I'll definitely do that!

This is no house rule imho. Instead common sense when playing a strategy game. It wouldn´t be any challenge or in any way satisfying when playing a TW game using reloads after loosing any battle or town.

Hm... you're right, I'm going to delete it.

[seleucid empire]

Saba because:
1. The have a different fighting style to most of the eastern factions
2. They are an underdog and the struggle will be epic
3. No completed or even semi-completed aars with Saba
4. Secure location in south arabia allows time for political role-playing and civil wars ;). Also i think a ptolemy aar will be a lot like the other ones made already. Blitzing Antioch, Babylon and Seleucia and ruling the world...
5. I would really appreciate it :D

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Good one, I will consider it. But at the start I will blitz some cities (1 - 3) because else I'll be in debt.

You won't start off in debt because Ptolemies have a good economy. But for historically-accurate early expansion, I'd go for Ammonion and Halicarnassus.

(You might need to make an early peace with the Seleucids in order to concentrate forces against the Eleutheroi.)

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

So you want that I have only heavy infantry in towns to guard or do you mean guard mode in battle? That will be difficult, because I can't recruit heavy infantry right from the start.

Guard mode in battle for heavy infantry, so they don't pursue fleeing enemies. (Of course, this would apply only to disciplined Hellenes and Egyptians, not to Galatian mercenaries....)

[LotW89]

Guard mode in battle for heavy infantry, so they don't pursue fleeing enemies. (Of course, this would apply only to disciplined Hellenes and Egyptians, not to Galatian mercenaries....)

I see, that's a good point.
-> approved

[seleucid empire]

If your playing Saba limit number of slingers and archer spearmen
If your playing Ptolemies, limit the number of Pzehetaroroi by the 220's and start using panda phalanx again cause historically they were short on manpower by then
btw your rule number 4 that states:Rebel army must be destroyed or else the town will rebel after 2 years will be very hard because the Ptolemies start off with a lot of rebels and their southern provinces are pretty vast. you mite not reach the rebels in time

oh a rule i always play is when you really want to do a naval invasion make sure there are a lot of ships. after all you cant send a full stack over in a single unit of dodgy boats. If i send a fullstack i usually have 6 units of ships

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

If your playing Saba limit number of slingers and archer spearmen
If your playing Ptolemies, limit the number of Pzehetaroroi by the 220's and start using panda phalanx again cause historically they were short on manpower by then

btw your rule number 4 that states:Rebel army must be destroyed or else the town will rebel after 2 years will be very hard because the Ptolemies start off with a lot of rebels and their southern provinces are pretty vast. you mite not reach the rebels in time

oh a rule i always play is when you really want to do a naval invasion make sure there are a lot of ships. after all you cant send a full stack over in a single unit of dodgy boats. If i send a fullstack i usually have 6 units of ships

Good ideas.

1. How about making Ptolemies rely on hiring Misthophoroi Phalangitai (Mercenary Hellenic Medium Phalanx) after 222, instead of recruiting them in towns? Hiring mercenaries was practically a Ptolemaic tradition.

2. I think the fight-in-2-years-or-town-goes-rebel rule is fine. Another way to handle it might be that the town garrison has to go out and attack the rebel army, even if it is vastly outnumbered - and if it loses, then you have to let the town rebel. Look at it this way - if the game engine was working as it should be, any big rebel army wouldn't be just standing around not moving, it would head straight for the nearest town and put it under seige! You can simulate this by attacking a big rebel army with a small garrison force, and getting your butt severely kicked!

3. As for moving big armies by sea, I agree you should either have a lot of ships, or have a few big ships. Maybe look at the ship descriptions to find out how many marines and soldiers each type of ship can carry. For example, a single Pentekonteroi can carry 10 soldiers (excluding marines and rowers). There's 13 ships in a full-strength Pentekonteroi unit (on normal unit size) so that's 130 soldiers from your army that can be transported that way. While a single Pentereis can cary 80 soldiers (excluding marines and rowers). With 13 ships in a full-strength Pentereis unit, that's 1040 men that can be transported that way - about half a stack. You can make it even harder and more realistic for yourself, by saying that transporting one horse takes the same space needed by 4 men! So a single Pentekonteroi could only transport 2 cavalry horses and their riders. With 13 ships in the unit, that makes 26 horses and their riders.

[FinnishedBarbarian]

Here's some suggestions:

- Ptolemies should keep quite large garrisons on egyptian cities due to their rebellious nature historically so homeland provinces would require presence of 1/3 (approximately) of professionals (pezhetairoi, thureophoroi, thorakitai, agema ect ect) units that player has (4-5 professionals per city would suffice when you reach point where you have 3-4 fullstacks of professionals).

- Extensive use of mercenary generals: Ptolemies used mercenaries as commanders quite often (Scopas at panium) and most of the Ptolemaic rulers weren't intrested in commanding military campaigns themselves so apart from starting FL Ptolemy II members of the royal family should be kept on administrator duties on eqypt (you can allow some exceptions, but enforcing this rule causes Ptolemies to differ from Makedones and Seleucids).

- Roleplaying rules can also include the expansion determined by FL charasteristics, if he's selfish/optimistic vigorous/charismatic he would be more likely to seek greater expansion and not be contend with just eqypt/coastal mediterranean territories. His personality could also affect whole realms content/discontent spawning rebel stacks if he's ruthless tyrant (doesn't concern eqyptoi who ignore such requirement and take every chance they get to overthrow Ptolemies).

Hopefully those suggestions give you some ideas for your AAR

[seleucid empire]

Good ideas.

1. How about making Ptolemies rely on hiring Misthophoroi Phalangitai (Mercenary Hellenic Medium Phalanx) after 222, instead of recruiting them in towns? Hiring mercenaries was practically a Ptolemaic tradition.

2. I think the fight-in-2-years-or-town-goes-rebel rule is fine. Another way to handle it might be that the town garrison has to go out and attack the rebel army, even if it is vastly outnumbered - and if it loses, then you have to let the town rebel. Look at it this way - if the game engine was working as it should be, any big rebel army wouldn't be just standing around not moving, it would head straight for the nearest town and put it under seige! You can simulate this by attacking a big rebel army with a small garrison force, and getting your butt severely kicked!

3. As for moving big armies by sea, I agree you should either have a lot of ships, or have a few big ships. Maybe look at the ship descriptions to find out how many marines and soldiers each type of ship can carry. For example, a single Pentekonteroi can carry 10 soldiers (excluding marines and rowers). There's 13 ships in a full-strength Pentekonteroi unit (on normal unit size) so that's 130 soldiers from your army that can be transported that way. While a single Pentereis can cary 80 soldiers (excluding marines and rowers). With 13 ships in a full-strength Pentereis unit, that's 1040 men that can be transported that way - about half a stack. You can make it even harder and more realistic for yourself, by saying that transporting one horse takes the same space needed by 4 men! So a single Pentekonteroi could only transport 2 cavalry horses and their riders. With 13 ships in the unit, that makes 26 horses and their riders.

I agree with the hiring of mercenaries if your gonna go Ptolemies. You can put a general on a ship and transport him to different locations such as greece thrace and asia minor to seek out mercenaries. I think the Ptolemies did that before Raphia

As for the ships, I also think the type of voyage you are undertaking should be taken into account. For example. If your crossing the Aegen use the smallest ships just like the greeks did in the trojan war! If your casse and want to cross the english channel use small boats if you want. If your sailing from Alexandria to Syracuse send the big ships

Another rule can be to always keep your general out of the fighting unless in dire emergencies. Its always tempting to use your regenerating cavalry bodyguards rather than your expensive elite cavalry but it seems wrong. Of course there are exceptions for some factions such as Koinon Hellon. Historically i believe the Athenian and Spartan Strategos would fight with their men on the right hand side of the line. Also you can roleplay historical leaders such as Antiochus III who did always lead the charge or hannibal who threw his bodyguard into the fray at Cannae.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Small ships could make long voyages just as well as big ships in the ancient world. Standard operating procedure was to make landfall or harbour at night and sail only in daylight whenever possible. So you can sail from Egypt to Syracusae no problem - as long as the Carthaginians are friendly! If you're at war with Carthage, then you've got problems.

Best way to simulate this in EB, make the army get off the ship every single turn at the end of the movement phase, and get back on board on the following turn. Ideally you should have military access wherever you land troops, or be prepared to defend your landing beach if necessary against hostile locals.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

I don't see a problem with using younger family members in combat, personally. I don't think their bodyguards come for free, family members cost money as well as recruited units. But I agree that using the commanding general in combat should be a last resort for most Ptolemaic armies.

[LotW89]

Good ideas so far, I will definitely do some of them, that ship idea is great!
Role-playing faction expansion is also a great idea, I thought about something like this yesterday, so I'll do that.
Using generals in fight isn't something I would do with a civilized faction, but there are also exceptions.
I'm going to update the rules ;)
Seems like it'll be a Ptolemaioi AAR!

[Pikenier]

Saba because:
1. The have a different fighting style to most of the eastern factions
2. They are an underdog and the struggle will be epic
3. No completed or even semi-completed aars with Saba
4. Secure location in south arabia allows time for political role-playing and civil wars ;). Also i think a ptolemy aar will be a lot like the other ones made already. Blitzing Antioch, Babylon and Seleucia and ruling the world...
5. I would really appreciate it :D

Some very good points. Especially No. 2 (and No. 5 :-D)
Would love to see a finished AAR for them. Had much problems with them in my fights against Egypt and never finished this campaign. Do they even have any good late game units to counter their more powerful enemies?

[seleucid empire]

The only good factional unit they can get to counter the twin empires of seleucus and ptolemy are the Sabaen medium cavalry. They are an awesome unit. Other than that they have to rely a lot on mercenaries and regionals. Their noble infantry is too much of a hassle to transport but the cavalry is definitely worth bringing over from arabia. They can also get regional bush elephants

[tobit]

I voted Sauromatae, Hayasdan, Pontos, and Saba. I think those are the hardest factions in the game anyone of them would be cool.

[seleucid empire]

looks like saba is winning :DDDD

[d'Arthez]

Voted: Saba, Hayasdan and Sauromatae. Sauromatae seems to be the most unpopular faction to play as in EB1.

[seleucid empire]

Its just really hard to hold onto your cities with Sauromatae ive found. also here are no immediate conquests which can make you richer. The one successful campaign ive had with them was when i rushed hayasdan and conquered Armenia. Then i went back onto the steppes and conquered a ring around the pontic sea

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Its just really hard to hold onto your cities with Sauromatae ive found. also here are no immediate conquests which can make you richer. The one successful campaign ive had with them was when i rushed hayasdan and conquered Armenia. Then i went back onto the steppes and conquered a ring around the pontic sea

Sauromatae is very hard on VH campaign difficulty, but quite playable on M/M.

[LotW89]

Well well, 7:5 for Saba, I think I'll start tomorrow with the AAR.

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