Advice on the Vikings

[Wodening]

Having not played in six or seven years I could use some advice. I played a Viking Invasion campaign as the Mercians and it seemed easy enough. I won anyway. Now I am playing as the Vikings though and I have encountered a problem I really had not encountered with the Mercians. I am suffering economically. I have been surviving on conquest, and ransoming kings. The problem is I know there is a time coming when I will have to build up troops to take on the Mercians and Scots, and I will not be able to do that with the way my income and expenses are. I have already taken out the Northumbrians and hold all the lands they started with and I am currently working on the Welsh, after that I know I could strike out to Ireland, but I do not like the idea of leaving a strong Mercia to cut my throat whenever they please. They already have some pretty sizable stacks, and it is only in the 830s. Is there anyway I can bring in more of an income without increasing taxes dramatically and risking rebellion? I am in the process of building mines where I can and increasing farming. Is there anything else I can do? Like I said it has been six or seven years since I last played and I have forgotten a lot.

[drone]

If you are still Pagan, raising money is easy. The Vikings get full value destroying buildings in raids, and are the only faction capable of moving troops via ships without ports. Start raiding lightly defended coastal provinces, burn them to the ground, and move out. You can kill two birds with one stone by hitting the Mercians in this fashion, the economic hit will slow them down. The Mercians and Saxons are going to be the toughest factions, since they have the strongest rosters after the Vikings. Target any province of theirs with Royal Palaces for destruction, you want to maintain your huscarle monopoly for as long as possible, and if you can get them to fight each other it's a added bonus.

My usual strategy when playing the Vikings: Build up the homelands while sending 1 or 2 strong raiding parties through everybody early on. Don't hold territory, just raze it all. The Viking units are vastly superior early on, and you start with enough ships to reach anywhere. Target the provinces with abbeys, ports, and higher military structures. Once the homelands are suitably developed and you have a nice pile of looted cash, start taking land, usually Ireland first, then start working from Scotland on down, occasionally raiding the southern factions to keep them weak. Your infantry is second to none, you can go far with just huscarles and landsmenn. Throw in a few units of raider cavalry to chase archers and routers, and you can beat pretty much anything. The Irish can be troublesome, they have plenty of armour piercing units that can decimate your expensive huscarles, chasing down the Picts' mounted crossbows is a pain, and your cav is useless against any semi-competent warriors. So the best bet is to get the other factions down to low tech, and keep them down until you can conquer all.

[Wodening]

Well, I am already holding territory, but I can hold off taking new territory and just raid. I am pretty much in a position that I can go anywhere I want. There are several wealthy provinces I can reach with my ships so that should not be a problem. I had not thought about destroying buildings though. I will have to do that in the provinces I have taken as there are buildings I really have no use for.

[drone]

When a province is successfully attacked, some buildings get destroyed in the fight. But you won't get the option to raze buildings unless you fully own the province, you have to take the stronghold before you get the option. So if you are going for quick "burn to the ground" raids, you will need to storm the castle if they retreat to it, a siege will give the opponent time to bring in reinforcements. Not really a problem unless the province has a fort or castle (the lower level strongholds don't have gates), but something to take into account if you plan on raiding a high level province.

The Forest Clearing is indestructible, but burn the rest to the ground!

[Wodening]

I will keep that in mind. Thus far I have not encountered any major fortifications. I think it is too early in the game for there to be many. Right now I will do anything to raise funds. I still have all of Mercia and Wessex I can raid plus what's left of Wales. That should give me plenty of florins I would guess. Like I said it has been six or seven years since I last played regularly so I am having to relearn a lot.

[LordK9]

The only thing I can add to such sound advise is to re-raid periodically after your enemies have nicely rebuilt the province and be sure to keep your naval technology edge.

[Wodening]

Well, I won the campaign. I reached a point where I was holding provinces, so I just kept taking one after another. When I won the game I had about 50,000 florins, so I was pleased. I only had a few lean years when I was at war with Wessex. They had a very impressive military that I had to whittle down piece by piece. I would take a province, then abandon it when they went to take it back. Then I would gather more forces and attack again. This went on for a long time, but I just kept at it. With Wessex gone the campaign went smoothly. By then only the Picts and Irish were left, and the Picts were the only real challenge. It was not really that hard a campaign. It was far harder playing the Mercians. Next I plan to play the Picts as I am up for a bit of a challenge.

[drone]

The Picts can be tough, but you do get crossbows and berserkers so it's doable. In my opinion, the most difficult VI campaign is the Scots, try that one on Hard difficulty if you get bored.

[Wodening]

Hmmm, I may try the Scots then instead then. I just want a challenge after the last campaign. It was almost too easy as the Vikings, but then I was playing on normal instead of hard.. It may have been different had I played on hard. These first two games I wanted to ease myself back into it. Playing the Scots may help me brush up on my battles too. I am doing okay, but I know there is stuff I could be doing to inflict more losses on the enemy and have lower losses myself. I am surprised though how much I remembered after six years of not playing.

[Brandy Blue]

IIRC the Vikings are no challenge once you get the hang of them, even on VH. You want challenge, go with the Scots.

[Wodening]

I will definitely go with the Scots this time around. The Vikings were way too easy. I had no major setbacks. I only had about five years that were lean. My troops could match any I met in the field. The only real challenge was Wessex, and I just kept picking away at them until they were gone. I am ready for more of a challenge. I will probably play it on normal though. I am not sure I am up to doing hard or expert yet. If this campaign turns out seeming too easy then I will start over on hard. Really though I am surprised at how much I am remembering after not having played for six or seven years. After this VI campaign I think I will try straight MTW again.

[LordK9]

What I find funny is that the Irish are so easy to beat when the AI runs them but very easy to win with when a human plays them. (brought on by the irish not a problem comment). I played on "hard" exclusively; perhaps Vikings and Irish should be played on "very hard". Might be what brings me back to VI.

[Gilrandir]

The Vikings were way too easy.

You can look for a challenge not in changing factions but in playing on harder difficulties. Expert makes most factions challenging (both in VI and MTW). Strategically, the AI gets more aggressive and it gets bonuses in battles.

[ferdi]

What I find funny is that the Irish are so easy to beat when the AI runs them but very easy to win with when a human plays them. (brought on by the irish not a problem comment). I played on "hard" exclusively; perhaps Vikings and Irish should be played on "very hard". Might be what brings me back to VI.

hmm . ı remembered my first Viking campain. I first played with İrish. I think like u they are so easy. u could easily get your İsland(irelans) and then make raids on British mainland. it is very enjoyable. then ı played with Scots and they were a little bit harder but if u want real challenge play with Picts. Mainland is hard and theri lands are not so wealthy. nowadays I'm playin ancient and Xl mods. good games bro..

[Wodening]

Well, I decided to go with the Scots on hard. So far it has not been too bad. Though I have not been making enough florins to build up a large number of forces. I have been taking territories though. I wait until a province rebels, and then move in on it. So far I have been making a small profit though just by doing nothing. Now though the Vikings have went to war with me, and disrupted my trade. They took one province, but I moved in on it before the stronghold fell, so no real losses. However, I am waiting to see what the loss of trade will do to me. I am only a couple of turns into the war with the Vikings. Anyway, it will be interesting next turn. For now I am building forces in Ireland since I can no longer bring in forces from Great Britain.

[ferdi]

Well, I decided to go with the Scots on hard. So far it has not been too bad. Though I have not been making enough florins to build up a large number of forces. I have been taking territories though. I wait until a province rebels, and then move in on it. So far I have been making a small profit though just by doing nothing. Now though the Vikings have went to war with me, and disrupted my trade. They took one province, but I moved in on it before the stronghold fell, so no real losses. However, I am waiting to see what the loss of trade will do to me. I am only a couple of turns into the war with the Vikings. Anyway, it will be interesting next turn. For now I am building forces in Ireland since I can no longer bring in forces from Great Britain.

could we see view of your sitiuation?

[Wodening]

Here are three screenshots of my situation. The Vikings have eliminated my navy, but are no longer in my lands.

[drone]

The Irish are easy to beat since the AI doesn't get too aggressive with them, but a human player can really exploit their isolated position. The biggest problem I had playing the Irish was the unit roster, in battles you need to use a completely different style to be successful.

With the Scots, the start is difficult due to the split kingdom. I usual focus on taking Ireland first (again, isolated position) and hold on to what I can on the mainland. The lack of AP units really hits when dealing with Viking raiders and the Anglo-Saxon factions, I usually wait until I get armoured spearmen and mounted nobles before getting too far south.

[Wodening]

Well, my going south just sort of happened. I was preying on areas that were took over by rebels, and Northumbia was not in good shape after going to war with Mercia. They would leave few forces in the provinces they took back from the Mercians and there would be revolts. Then when the rebels took over I would come in and mop up. Probably a stupid strategy on my part. I should have concentrated on Ireland first I suppose, but I was counting on being able to move troops to it. Now, I guess I will just bide my time, and build up in Ireland.

[LordK9]

The Irish are easy to beat since the AI doesn't get too aggressive with them, but a human player can really exploit their isolated position. The biggest problem I had playing the Irish was the unit roster, in battles you need to use a completely different style to be successful.

With the Scots, the start is difficult due to the split kingdom. I usual focus on taking Ireland first (again, isolated position) and hold on to what I can on the mainland. The lack of AP units really hits when dealing with Viking raiders and the Anglo-Saxon factions, I usually wait until I get armoured spearmen and mounted nobles before getting too far south.

Is it lack of aggression or a programming glitch? It seems that no matter the faction, close range missile troops tend to retreat before they get into range rending the Irish army (which has quite a few of this type) ineffective. Try it yourself: put your Jacoby (etc) on skirmish and try to get them close enough to throw. They will retreat prior to throwing most of the time. To fight the AI Irish, I'd just bring a bunch of archers with a few front-line troops to protect them and mop up. When human controlled, they are a terror on armored troops like the vikings.

But, back to the focus of this series (my apologies, I diverted it). The Scots certainly gave me the hardest time (well, I did lose with the Mercians once in just a few turns - Saxons, Vikings, and Northumbrians attacked me right at the beginning - then I learned how to use diplomacy :) ). The reason I haven't used expert is that I just don't like starting with nothing, taking decades to build to the point my adversaries are at the beginning. In the long run this is more challenging but in the very early game, it is nothing less then frustrating.

[Gilrandir]

It seems that no matter the faction, close range missile troops tend to retreat before they get into range rending the Irish army (which has quite a few of this type) ineffective. Try it yourself: put your Jacoby (etc) on skirmish and try to get them close enough to throw. They will retreat prior to throwing most of the time.

I don't like javelins for the reason you state, yet if you want them to do their job you have to pin the enemy's unit with spears and only then you can be sure your javs don't retreat (the same holds for Naptha).

[Gilrandir]

Here are three screenshots of my situation. The Vikings have eliminated my navy, but are no longer in my lands.

Do I see the Saxons'-held province at the very north of the island? How on earth could they get there?

[ferdi]

Here are three screenshots of my situation. The Vikings have eliminated my navy, but are no longer in my lands.

ı want to play after show your images.
i could say the island "Manau" is so important for Scots. Who held that island. try to get it. (ı do this first) then a admiral dominance in taht sea(the seal between İreland and BRitain is the key and Manau is the port-center of there). so be careful about İrish. ı guess they'll attack on u Connact. the first years are so important. if u dont have naval superioity Viking will come some day with their irrestable forces. u know islands are not save. so make them save. And ı see Picts will attack on u in ATfholia. agins Viking a say don'T put all your army on their on. AI is attack with small forces when it see u have small army. so put your best soldiers to defend a place and take other forces some where else.

[Wodening]

Do I see the Saxons'-held province at the very north of the island? How on earth could they get there?

I am not sure how they got up there, but the Vikings apparently left their fleet alone allowing to move up there, and the Picts could not take them out. I built up, and took out the Irish. I also took out the Picts. I preparing to take out those Saxon units up in the north. It has been a very slow game. It takes a long time to build forces. And when I do attack I take heavy losses. I have not been able to build anything but highlanders and spearmen until recently. Now I can build armored spearmen and things are going much better. I am finding this campaign very difficult. The Scots are a hard faction to play.

[drone]

Is it lack of aggression or a programming glitch? It seems that no matter the faction, close range missile troops tend to retreat before they get into range rending the Irish army (which has quite a few of this type) ineffective. Try it yourself: put your Jacoby (etc) on skirmish and try to get them close enough to throw. They will retreat prior to throwing most of the time. To fight the AI Irish, I'd just bring a bunch of archers with a few front-line troops to protect them and mop up. When human controlled, they are a terror on armored troops like the vikings.

I was speaking more strategically, the Irish have always had trouble getting off Ireland in my games, so they tend to stagnate. But yes, there is a problem with javelin ranges and skirmish, you always need to take your units off skirmish if you want to to throw for effect. But when used properly, they are a beautiful thing!

i could say the island "Manau" is so important for Scots. Who held that island. try to get it. (ı do this first) then a admiral dominance in taht sea(the seal between İreland and BRitain is the key and Manau is the port-center of there).

Indeed, Manau (Isle of Man) is key for the Scots. It's an island (duh!) so it's fairly safe from attack, and it has iron, so it makes for a great place to build troops.

And when I do attack I take heavy losses. I have not been able to build anything but highlanders and spearmen until recently.

This is pretty much how it goes with the Scots against the Anglo-Saxons/Vikings. It's not too bad beating up the other factions, but highlanders just don't cut it, even when upgraded (morale upgrades are key). I love highlanders in the grand campaign, but in VI they are just too weak as a main unit.

[Wodening]

Well, I have been lucky and not had too much problem with morale with the highlanders thanks to other factors. My main problem is they seem to be good for the first attack, but if the battle lasts very long they die in swarms. Luckily, I built plenty of spearmen, and I can now build armored spearmen and royal bodyguards. I think I can build mounted nobles too, but I cannot remember. I took out those Saxon forces in the North. It turns out they were the only Saxon units left. I am taking on the Mercians and while I am only a turn into that war it seems to be going well. I have been hitting the Vikings up for a ceasefire hoping they take it so I can get a longboat or two so I can take the isle of Man and the other island. It has been rough though. But at least my losses in battle are not what they had been now I am not building as many highlanders.

[Wodening]

I completed the game. I went for lesser victory. For one thing, the Vikings held the Isle of Man, and I am not sure I could gather enough forces to finally take the Mercians out. It was a rough go of it as it was. I am not sure what I will play next. I am going to give it a day, and then I will probably start an early campaign with the English.