View Poll Results: Who are you holding your nose and voting for?

24. This poll is closed
  • Trump

    4 16.67%
  • Hillary

    10 41.67%
  • Johnson

    8 33.33%
  • Stein

    2 8.33%
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Thread: POTUS Election thread

  1. #1561

    Default Re: POTUS thread

    It is certainly useful for states to keep secrets from their citizens insofar as they are keeping secrets from other states.

    Also recall that states aren't unitary - politicians and bureaucrats can't have all their cards and considerations open to each other in the same state...
    Vitiate Man.

  2. #1562
    Stranger in a strange land Forum Administrator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Crandar View Post
    Diplomatic negotiations do not fail because of some rude comments, imo.
    Anyway I see your point, but I believe that the government shouldn't keep any secrets from its people.
    Dishonesty should always be condemned and I believe that society is mature enough to know where its interests lie without the leadership paternalistically withholding information from the stupid masses, unable to think for themselves. The credit stuff and the rest is indeed irresponsible, though.

    edit-To avoid any misunderstanding, I'm not saying that people being dumb is what you believe Hooahguy, I'm just illustrating my point, which may be a bit simplistic and idealistic, given that so many voters apparently believe that Trump is anti-establishment.
    Ok granted my insult example isnt great but you get the idea. I agree that there should be a level of openness between the government and its people. But just as citizens have a right to know, I also think there is a right not to know. I mean, the whole idea of secret clearance levels exist for a reason I think. Now, where that line is drawn can be debated, but to me I dont think a state with no secrets can reasonably exist. Maybe Sealand.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 01-19-2017 at 23:57.
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  3. #1563
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    May 2005

    Default Re: POTUS thread

    OK, first off, Manning is a She.

    I'll take the lefty-card of all of you who brushed over that, you're disqualified as "card carrying lefties".

    Now, to point.

    1. Manning simply dumped a great deal of information onto Wiki-Leaks/the Guardian - neither of which are known for judgement or discretion.

    2. Aside from the embarrassing revelation that American Diplomats all imitate Boris Johnson behind closed doors this resulted in the release of reams of classified operational data which had no political value but was aof great value to our enemies in the Middle East. People almost certainly suffered summary execution at the hands of Terrorists because of what Manning did.

    Manning has their blood on her hands, but because the followup is still classified her supporters are spared the gory details of what happened to those people. They were people, not "spies", people who were probably beheaded, or tortured and shot.

    3. Manning plead guilty to all charges. Having plead guilty to the release of the information she can't really be considered a "Whistleblower". What she was was a highly disturbed trans-gender woman who never should have been allowed to handle sensitive information. That's a significant point - Manning went to her CO, was ignored but at no point tried to escalate things within the Army. She just vomited whatever she could get her hands onto out onto the Internet.

    Six years is not long enough - twelve years perhaps. I, for one, would like to know if the army is still paying for her surgery.

    As to Snowden, Snowden is a fugitive from Justice currently being sheltered by Russia. As Obama noted, he can't pardon Snowden because Snowden hasn't submitted the required paperwork, i.e. he hasn't faced a court, been convicted and then asked for clemency.

    This is also why Snowden is not a hero - a real patriot would return to the US and submit himself to the Courts. Fleeing to Russia is the action of a Traitor which has made it far more likely he'll be treated as such and executed.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

  4. #1564
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Fleeing to Russia is the action of a man who is not self-destructive. Russia was the best option, because no other country would give him asylum. It's the same with Assange, his friendship with Russia is not the cause of the leaks, but the consequence, the result of relentless persecution.

  5. #1565
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    A Bigly Presidential message from our future dic-tator.
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    May God have mercy on all of our souls...
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  6. #1566
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    CNN's going "hint hint" about which obama cabinate member gets ghe big chair if trump dies before swearing in.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.

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    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  7. #1567
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post

    2. Aside from the embarrassing revelation that American Diplomats all imitate Boris Johnson behind closed doors this resulted in the release of reams of classified operational data which had no political value but was aof great value to our enemies in the Middle East.
    The said diplomats may do nastier things - like dressing up like women and fomenting unrest in this disguise. At least Lavrov says so, and he is the one to trust.

  8. #1568
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Slack Man Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Oath completed and sworn at 1200 Eastern

    The 45th Presidency begins.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  9. #1569
    The Red-titled Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Oath completed and sworn at 1200 Eastern

    The 45th Presidency begins.
    Probably time for a new thread on the apocalypse, since now the election is 100% over.
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