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Thread: TW games - the future

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default TW games - the future

    Look into the crystal Total War ball of epic games - what will the future hold, my dears?


    Frankenstein aside (), Total War is at a little crossroad, at least, with regards to its future. The new Total War historical is due in about 6-9 with an announcement, so expect it somewhere in 2018, around a year or so at the very least until an alpha or beta comes out. They're hard at work over it, that's pretty clear, but the question is what kind of a timeframe will it be.

    And this is not necessarily about the next TW game - but what will happen after this historical title. If the next title comes along, by the time it will be released in 2018, with the development coming full circle a year or so later, Total War will celebrate 20 years of existence. 20 years. That's a very long time in the gaming industry. With Shogun released back in 1999/2000, and with Medieval following suit in 2002, Total War has been around for a considerable period of time.


    For the most part, TW has remained the same TBS we know and love for the past 20 almost years. And it's worked wonders every time. Rome 2 and Warhammer have shattered sales records. In fact, almost every Total War game has shattered sales records when it came out - particularly Rome, Empire and Rome 2.

    So gentlemen, take your best guesses - where is TW headed in the future? A different timeframe? A different gameplay? A Total Overhaul?
    Last edited by edyzmedieval; 10-24-2016 at 13:09.
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    Stranger in a strange land Forum Administrator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Part of me thinks that they are going to do Empire 2, but Empire had the current engine if I recall correctly so Im not sure what the point would be. I would love them to do a Medieval 3 but I recall them saying that there would be no third titles in a series so thats a bummer. So basically, I have no idea. Perhaps they might do a late medieval/early Renaissance game?
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    No more "revolution-evolution", then?
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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Empire 2 technically is the evolution - Empire was the initial revolution. Same with Rome 2 as well. The original was the revolution, the sequel was a revolution-evolution.

    And probably Empire 2 or something Victorian is next.
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    There's no way to know what's next.

    'revolution-evolution' referred to the current development stage of the game engine and game release schedule. The engine was initially released as a game and then re-released again as another game with some improvements. This happened with STW -> MTW and RTW -> M2TW, etc, etc...

    As well as this there were always expansions and later "downloadable content" once the games moved to the steam platform.

    Aside from fantasy settings, there are only so many historical time frames which will work and which will appeal to the main target audience - i.e. kids in North America and Europe.

    Without a complete redesign, essentially meaning the game is no longer "total war" in the true sense, more modern settings won't be feasible.

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Without a complete redesign, essentially meaning the game is no longer "total war" in the true sense, more modern settings won't be feasible.
    My sentiments, exactly! My belief is that CA got into fantasy because feudal Japan has been done twice...Medieval Europe twice...and the Roman Empire twice. Going further back in time (the warlord era of China, or the rise of Greece, for example) probably doesn't have enough mass appeal like fantasy. That doesn't leave much to do except move forward in time, and that would require a completely new game engine at the very least
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 10-26-2016 at 00:52.
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Going further back in time (the warlord era of China, or the rise of Greece, for example) probably doesn't have enough mass appeal like fantasy.
    The age of the warring states (China) was always high on the wish list at forums like this one for years, probably since STW1. It was the ideal fit to the game engine (as was Shogun), but yes without mass appeal it was never going to happen.

    MTW1 was actually the first "mass appeal" game. Shogun was quite a daring move, picking an era and theatre of warfare which would be practically unknown in 'west' was always risky. MTW took the winning formula, but retreated back to "safe territory". It also went for an "all of Europe" (+ bits of middle east/north Africa) approach (and was originally to be called "Crusader : Total War") instead of focusing on a specific time frame, local conflict or civil war. Castles, Knights and archers, etc are always the safer option.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    That doesn't leave much to do except move forward in time, and that would require a completely new game engine at the very least
    There are already plenty of games franchises offering modern warfare. Fantasy such as warhammer, is pretty much all that is left, but it was probably always going to be more of a hit with warhammer fans rather than total war fans. The .org especially was always going to lose out on that one.

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Clearly, no way to know what's next.

    However, we can take an introspective look at Total War, how it shapes up after almost 20 years of existence. A lot of games have been released, a lot of gamers love TW, and their new game has to be some kind of revolution-evolution stepping stone that will put it back into the limelight for the more hardcore players. You don't have to simplify TW - to be honest I do miss the micromanagement of the older TW games, given that MTW is one of my / my favourite games - to appeal it to a wide ranging demographic of players. You just have to evolve it/reinvent it to make sure it stays fresh and super engaging for everyone who wants to play Total War.
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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    You just have to evolve it/reinvent it to make sure it stays fresh and super engaging for everyone who wants to play Total War
    Yes, but what time era, and which genre...historical or fantasy?
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    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Could it go the Civ route and be pan-era in scope? Maybe just Europe from Greece through to Empire (TW). Kind of whacky thought, but trying to think outside the box (or era).
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    Member Member dimitrios the samian's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Biblical Chariot Era needs to be given a mention .

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Yes, but what time era, and which genre...historical or fantasy?
    It's pretty clear they're going the fantasy way as well, with a separate development team. So technically, both!

    As for historical, there's plenty of other places you can explore. Let's keep in mind Shogun was very limited in appeal and look where it got us.
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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    As for historical, there's plenty of other places you can explore. Let's keep in mind Shogun was very limited in appeal and look where it got us.
    Shogun was CA's Star Trek...going where no one had gone before. So yes, it drew a lot of gamers in. But...that era's been done twice, as has several of the most popular military history times. CA has already stated it won't go for the trifecta in any era (one has to wonder how set in stone that statement is).

    As to "plenty of other places"...where would that be? I could see one or two areas...maybe, but plenty? I don't see it.
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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Plenty? Sure there's plenty.

    Victorian TW
    Some sort of TW set in Asia (not Japan) - perhaps the Iranian / Persian empires and the wars around it?
    Empire 2 - or something similar with empires and merchants
    Dark Ages TW (Attila is Roman-ish, same goes for Charlemagne - I'm referring to 750-1000 AD)
    Post-Renaissance TW (after 1550 - until 1700)
    a more ancient setting - 400-500BC?
    a different setting geographically - African TW? African Empires, like the Akshumite kingdom?

    Floating different ideas here, but there's plenty of places to go to and things to explore.
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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    All of those are what I would term "niche" eras of warfare. How many of TW's fanbase would even know anything about them, or be remotely interested? I've been a TW player since the beginning, and the only possible time period that interests me is the feudal era of China. I know little, or care even less, about the remainder of what you mentioned. That's just me, of course.

    I would guess the move to Warhammer was calculated to grab the already huge existing fanbase of Warhammer 40k. Modern warfare (where there is an immense fanbase) is out of the question, IMHO, without a complete overhaul including a new game engine. So that leaves more of the fantasy genre
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 10-31-2016 at 00:17.
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    Member Member Oleander Ardens's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    A Ancient: TW centered around the Middle East starting around 1000 BC would be neat, or even earlier.

    Personally I guess we will see sooner or later a Lord of the Rings:TW. The demand is there as shown by able modders and fierce fans.

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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    I think the era of Age of Empires 1 would be an interesting timeframe. The Hittites and Egyptians being the main super-powers, with some nations just rising into prominence, ie. Assyria, Phoenicia, etc. At least then chariots would be a realistic unit.

    I'm not sure how well this era would be received by the masses, but I know some people would like it. And it may get some of the AoE players.

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    Member Member Kamakazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    I think we need to see a map shift. Other than japan, all we have really seen is Europe. I would like to see China during the three kingdoms era myself.
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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    That's true, which is why I'd be interested in other time periods and perhaps a bigger scope like Empire TW.

    Even though I do want a Medieval 3.
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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    The suggestion that they won't do a "third edition" of any period doesn't really hold up - Charlemagne already takes place in roughly the same period as Viking Invasion. Attila is halfway between being Rome 3 and Barbarian Invasion 2.

    Likely we'll see a Renaissance to Early Modern game next - so you start with knights and longbows, end with rifles. Something between, say, 1500 and 1820.

    A Classical Total War that starts circa the Perisan Wars or just before and goes up to the fall of Carthage with a later expansion is another candidate.

    Having said that, DLC offerings for both Attila and Warhammer have been disappointing.
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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    They will probably do third editions, just not now, at least for M3TW.

    They are doing a totally new era.
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    Stranger in a strange land Forum Administrator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post

    Likely we'll see a Renaissance to Early Modern game next - so you start with knights and longbows, end with rifles. Something between, say, 1500 and 1820.
    I dont think that it would go so far. Perhaps early gunpowder. Would love to see a true European version of guns versus swords conflict in Total War.
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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Most likely that will be the next era for the historical TW title that's coming up.
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    Member Member Oleander Ardens's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Game of Thrones or GoT:TW is also in my humble opinion almost certain in the long run. Warhammer has been an overall great addition to the series and shown finance guys like me that the risk-weighted margins and returns are there if the demands of the various counterparts are not too high. As I stated before the great fans and modders of this series have demostrated beyond that Lotr:TW plus DLC and expansions into various realms and ages would sell very well.

    Overall I would love the addition of more topical campaigns with detailed regional maps for any game. Lots of good memories from Viking Invasions to Carolus Magnus in Attila. Combined with four seasons to twelve months they offer the most intense role-playing feeling with the best scaling.

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    Last edited by Oleander Ardens; 12-17-2016 at 18:32.
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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Indeed, now that I think of it, it is very much possible that a Game of Thrones TW will be made, given that Warhammer was such a massive sales hit for CA.
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    I read this thread a week and a half ago and have been thinking about it since then. I believe in all likelihood if they are going to make the next title a historical title, it will be either a rehash of Empire...or the Far East, Three Kingdoms perhaps?

    Neither one really interests me though. Mildly more than Warhammer or another fantasy title.

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Thing is, a remake of Empire TW might be on the cards, but they need to think this carefully because while Medieval, Shogun and Rome were serious fan favourites, Empire doesn't have the same base to fall upon.

    Shogun is a cult classic -> Shogun 2.

    Medieval TW is a masterpiece -> Medieval 2.

    Rome TW made TW mainstream -> Rome 2.
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    Member Member dimitrios the samian's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Whatever they choose to make ...
    they should use the Battlefield coding from the original MTW & improve on it if they still can or know how too .
    As all other releases that followed the AI went downhill ...

  29. #29

    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    Thing is, a remake of Empire TW might be on the cards, but they need to think this carefully because while Medieval, Shogun and Rome were serious fan favourites, Empire doesn't have the same base to fall upon.

    Shogun is a cult classic -> Shogun 2.

    Medieval TW is a masterpiece -> Medieval 2.

    Rome TW made TW mainstream -> Rome 2.
    Yes, I quite agree, but I don't believe they will give it proper consideration. Sega has engineered a toxic environment that kills off this kind of innovation they absolutely need to resolve the glaring problems in the original title.
    This is why I don't have much interest. All we'll likely get is "better" graphics and a rehash of Rome 2's campaign province development. I feel like that period is such a large bite to chew that they cannot do it justice. Well, at least based upon their history. I'm also not so sure it doesn't have a fan base now. It seemed to enjoy a renaissance around the time Rome 2 was being developed.

    As for a Three Kingdoms game...eh, call me racist but there is no interest by me in that area of the world. For a westerner it will feel like a rehash of Japanese culture. But I could see potential to be a money maker in Asia.


    P.S. Yes, I looked into Empire popularity. By the numbers it's a bit surprising: http://steamspy.com/dev/Creative+Assembly
    Last edited by Risasi; 12-28-2016 at 13:49.

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: TW games - the future

    Not entirely surprising by the number - Empire TW has surpassed all sales records when it first launched.

    A bit surprised about Attila though...
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