Indeed. And if he has children and gets divorced, the fight he will have to be a parent will be vastly in excess of what the mother has to.
Those who went to private schools have greater advantage than those that didn't. Those whose parents didn't go to University and do not see the point have it tougher.
There is no facet of the world that any two people are equal.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Bit personal, that?
I suppose the question is whether we need "Feminism" or whether we've come far enough that we can just accept women should be equal and move on as a society. If we accept women should be equal then we no longer need "Feminism" to tackle inequality.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
That could go like when we thought we wouldn't need Nazi hunters anymore and now the Nazis are everywhere.
Or like when we thought we wouldn't need unions anymore and wage slavery returned.
Every time conservatives say we don't need something they don't like anymore, it's just a ruse for reactionist measures to be implemented again.
Even apart from that, women aren't equal in society yet. That will more likely be the case once they have more space in the institutions of government/power, including in corporations. That is not to say they have to have 50%. http://www.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do...ts-and-figures
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/...in-leadership/
~20% seems a bit low though. Especially if you combine it with the reports about men in corporate leadership positions abusing them.
Always easy to say that maybe they're less ambitious, perhaps they're less ambitious after getting abused by their bosses.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
I mean to be fair, the Nazis that were hunted a few decades ago are not the same ones of today. The fight evolved with time. Same goes for feminism. There are new fights today that feminists of 20 years ago probably would not have imagined.
On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
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Hvil i fred HoreToreA man who casts no shadow has no soul.
It is his choice to answer, but it would help give context to why it is such a sore point. I could fabricate twenty different reasons easily, but that won't increase understanding if none of those situations are applicable. It is also difficult to engage, as I would have to make assumptions on what happened which might be more offensive to Rory than the truth.
Could also say I am curious with your post. You have previously stated on this topic that you believe in traditional gender roles and that a woman's place is in the kitchen and as a mother, taking care of the household, with the man being the sole provider. Have you since embraced feminism yourself?
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Sorry, what?
Pretty sure I never said that. I have said that in the first few years of life I think most children benefit more from their mothers than their fathers. I have also observed that whilst women wake when their babies cry in the night men quite often don't. I know one friend who would insist on his wife waking him because he would always sleep through their son crying and she wouldn't. As I recall her response was that it was pointless for them both to literally lose sleep over it.
As regards Rory's personal situation, he's a big boy but I would have thought it he wanted to share he would have, and as you note it's a sore point.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
If these are fights feminists never imagined, are they still feminist fights?
Was feminism not historically ambitious enough, or is it the case that "feminism" is now a lobbyist group as opposed to a genuine civil rights movement?
There does seem to be an assumption today that everyone has a right not to be offended and any offence caused is always grievous and cripplying.
The current sexual harassment scandal engulfing Westminster has now caught Damien Green, Theresa May's Deputy - he's accused of briefly touching a woman's knee and a year later telling her she looked good in a corset and inviting her out for a drink via text. He's apparently a friend of her father.
Is that sort of behaviour appropriate? No, certainly not, but I'm not convinced it can be called "sexual harassment" either, and the knee touch was apparently so fleeting even the alleged victim says it was "almost deniable".
There is a danger, I think, that we can create an environment where we take behaviour which should be deemed inappropriate and we elevate it to an extent that we end up making it much worse than it is for the recipient.
In this case I'm a bit confused why this girl didn't tell her father - I imagine if he's known his daughter was being "admired in a corset" he'd have knocked Green's block off.
Article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...dvance-female/
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
Well, "No plan survives contact with the enemy.", so it's not entirely unheard of that a movement doesn't die down right away after its first goal. Perhaps that is because movements tend to focus on a big, very important goal first, which doesn't mean they don't have more goals for later. And perhaps solving the initial problems makes the others become more visible as their relative impact grows with the removal of much bigger issues.
I'd see it a bit like a logarithmic function that makes more progress in the beginning and then continues with smaller steps until a certain ceiling (equality) is reached. I also won't doubt that some goals espoused by some feminists are about superiority or just going too far, but that doesn't automatically make all goals of feminism wrong. The goals should be judged individually and blanket statements can't do all of them justice.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Got as far as Nov 2014 then gave up looking for informational purposes. I remember you expressing a viewpoint similar to that as a proponent of traditional gender roles.
Not that it matters as you have confirmed you no longer hold that position (which I am pleased about) and I won't hold you to it to defend it.
I did find this, where you did express the view point.
Last edited by Beskar; 11-03-2017 at 17:36.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Actually, it does matter because I say I never expressed such a viewpoint, which is entirely different from saying I "no longer" hold such a viewpoint.
It is much more likely that you either misunderstood me, or you are miss-remembering and conflating my views with someone else's. In any case, I would say that having admitted you can turn up no evidence to the contrary you will, perforce, have to accept that you miss-represented my opinion on the matter.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
She left without notice one morning. I put him in his buggy and waved him goodbye. I have no idea why she left. Was everything perfect?No. But to vanish without warning, without ultimatum with a 6 month old child? The reasons kept changing. I begged. I pleaded. I asked for counselling. I did not see my son for c. 8 months. I had no idea if he was alive or dead. I had no idea where he was. The police did nothing. Many nights I cried myself to sleep since I was so worried he was dead. His cot was next to my bed but I couldn't bear to look at it nor dismantle it. My brother had to come and help me dismantle it. Has it scarred me...? Why, yes it has!
The woman's refuge gave her several pointers and phrases to raise "concerns" at court to delay seeing him. I missed his first birthday. She made several accusations - none found to be true. Her conduct has raised several concerns with Social Services but none enough to let me have my son full time - or more time when it is not convenient.
She's taken him out of school without telling me, she's moved away from where I live without telling me. She threw me out of the house when I came to see my son on his 4th birthday. She seems to care little beyond the money she can get for him. Now he's seven and he's having to deal with an unstable parent who is constantly demanding more money and is jealous of the relationship who he refers to as his step-mother.
The sore point is the hypocritical system that has the mother as the best carer and all evidence to the contrary is studiously ignored - but any concerns raised are to be fully investigated before the father can see his child.
This whole issue is rarely acknowledged. BUT we do hear constantly about the number of women who are on Company Board of Directors - even though no effort is made to see what proportion of women even want these roles and the personal sacrifices they require. Perhaps I am the only father in this position who cares about his child. I doubt it. And which is more important?
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Sorry to hear all that, that must be maddening
A sad story, but the reasons for this are well-known to rest in stereotypical role differences - i.e. if a mother is not manifestly unsuited, then by default she is a better candidate for primary custody. The problem is then not one with the courts per se; latent expectations have to change over time for family-court participants to bring that change with them. There's no quick resolution to your pain.* And it's not clear to me that this issue is acknowledged (By whom? Where?) any less than one such as corporate representation.
*I wonder if there are legal avenues to push the matter further in the system, but that's beyond me and I'm sure you have already discussed the possibilities with legal representation
What's sexist, let alone inherently sexist here?
Equivocating on grammatical gender is a bad idea.There is, in fact, no such thing as a "Gender-Neutral" word because all words, in all languages, have gendered roots.
Also, it is plainly false to say all words in all languages have gendered roots.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
As far as Rory's story goes, I think it's sad and unfair, and not uncommon because of the assumption men are more violent than women. Nothing to do with parenting specifically, just basic sexism.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
Vagina: Argument from distant etymology (meaning) is irrelevant to the living. You'd be better off focusing on the word's nature as the label of a sex feature.
Persona: I just warned you about equivocating on grammatical gender.
Homo: An inclusive word, like anthropos.
Language is certainly not neutral - but that has to do with speakers and nothing to do with etymology or grammar.The fact is gender-neutral language is a crock.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
I wasn't much of a fan of the PC languaging thing at first, as I have always trended toward traditionalist. Over the years, saying "chair" instead of chairman, or firefighter instead of fireman etc. has become almost second nature. I find that it encumbers me very little while doing...perhaps...some good.
What yanks my chain is grammar and writing skills. Be PC all you wish, but please learn to write a grammatically sound sentence and...dare I hope...put 3 or 4 of them together in a paragraph that is a more or less connected thought. THAT is what this university teacher truly desires most, that the language be CORRECT, and as politically correct as you will in addition.
P.S. The modern English term 'cunt' is closest to the correct Latin cunnus term for what some label the vulva. That term, however closer to its Latin roots, is likely to cause someone to take umbrage. To a modern audience, the etymological considerations are of less note than the current connotations of any of these terms. Languages change as their users dictate. After all, the symbols we use -- words -- only have meaning because we ascribe meaning to them.
P.P.S When I was a young lad, the word 'disrespect' had no verb form.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
The 'Homo' prefix is greek and it means same. So Homosexual means Same-sexual.
Homicide means the the killing of one human by another. The homi/homo meaning we are from the same species.
Man means Man/Male. So Chairman, Fireman, Policeman, etc are roles of a male. Chair, Firefighter, Police Officer, etc are gender-neutral in the role, as the person being ascribed is not directly assumed as being a male.
Last edited by Beskar; 11-02-2017 at 12:25.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
I made the effort to check the Oxford Latin Dictionary and you're definitely wrong - your etymologies are the result of the "false friend" phenomenon. You might want to consider that I'm a Classicist and a Medievalist who spends all day doing Latin next time, I don't just make this stuff up, I actually had to learn it.
Homo is Latin for "man", cognate with the English goom with it displaced and the Hebrew adam. Without qualification is can mean either "a man" or " a human", depending on context.
The word "human" and thence "man" come from the Latin humanus which is literally "a thing a man holds" from homo and manus. Your derivation for "homocide" and "hominem" are also wrong because they are Latin words.
As far as "homosexual" is a relatively modern word formed from two parts and it may actually be derived from the Greco-Latin "homo-sexual" meaning "same-sex" but it might also have been "man-sex" because likely when the term was coined there was little interest in the sexuality of women.
Compare discus from the Greek diskos "a quoit" and Latin discus "a learning".
Edit: Homo isn't a prefix, it's a noun.
Last edited by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus; 11-02-2017 at 12:53.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
Your reply is supporting an earlier comment I made which you quoted which was "Are you discussing gender-neutral in how language is biased against women and the movement to make it gender-neutral as not to imply a preference?". Your examples from classic latin reinforce this point being made.
Where I disagree is where I agree with Montmorency in the changing nature and evolution of language, so whilst some words do have origins in latin such as the vagina, it has now sufficiently changed to represent the physiological terminology labelling, losing its original concoctions of sword-sheath.
However, there are still words in play which have not evolved or their meanings changed. It is this aspect of the language which should be modified reflect the equality of the different sexes.
Last edited by Beskar; 11-02-2017 at 13:42.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
It seems to me that you both (at least PFH) mix up grammatical gender and gender as a social construct. In the case of the former languages don't manifest a universal pattern. There are languages which don't have this grammatical category (like modern English which has lost it as an aftermath of the Norman conquest) while others have it. The number of genders also differs - some languages have a three member gender opposition (Ukrainian or German -
feminine::masculine::neuter) others only two (like in Spanish - feminine::masculine). Moreover, the term "grammatical category" is erroneously applied in relation to nouns while it is quite accurate in relation to adjectives.
Peeves, you hold a pretty strange view, so as a trained hermeneute of the Latin language back it up with some exegetics and explain why it is wrong to consider homo a substantively inclusive word, and rightly a synonym of vir.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I don't think many support your version of humanus as a portmanteau of homo + manus; they're just cognate, distinct. They've meant a few things, but not that.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
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