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Thread: The Seleucid Empire

  1. #1

    Default The Seleucid Empire

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    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  2. #2
    MTR: AOA project ###### (temp) Member kataphraktoi's Avatar
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    Default Seleucids

    As the Seleucids you are precariously placed in the middle of potential factions who are enemies; specifically:

    - Armenian
    - Parthia
    - Ptolemiads
    - Greek city states
    - Pontus

    From the start you might find its gonna be intense. It certainly kept me occupied for 5 days playing till 3am since Friday.

    There are two weapons at your disposal to survive and conquer your enemies:

    - Obviously your army
    - Wealth

    Situated along valuable trade routes, wealth pours into Seleucid coffers like streams of gold, but be warned - wealth makes for unwarranted attention at the same to your neighbours.

    Recommended composition of early Seleucid armies:
    5-6 militia hoplite/phalanx or levy pikemen infantry units to form a wall of steel.
    4 - 6 militia cavalry/light cavalry to harass and protect flanks
    4-5 units of archers
    2-3 units of peltasts

    Until you are able to train scythed chariots or elephants to protect your flanks this is possibly the best defense for your flanks. In battles against the AI, the AI always tried to smashed into rear with its cavalry. So a combination of javelin and arrows to ward them off will protect your phalanx from nasty surprises.

    This combination helped me in the earlier stages of the campaign since the enemies you will be facing mainly consist of medium-infantry with nimble javelin cavalry and a few units fo archers.

    Since its most likely that you'll be fighting on all fronts you'll need to fight when necessary and bribe when necessary. Bribing is expensive, but it will save your men from overstretching themselves fighting everyone! With wealthy provinces, bribing is a luxury. It is also a great way to ward of large armies sieging your cities, it will take 6 turns or so for your enemy to rebuild that army - good breathing space to build your own.

    Provinces that need to be given constant attention are:
    Syria (Antioch) - capital and vulnerable to sudden thrusts from the Ptolemids
    Ciliicia (Tarsus) - link between Sardis and Antioch, vital to trade and strategic province to cut off invading armies towards Antioch.
    Assyria (Hatra) - links west with east halves of empire and vulnerable to Armenian incursions.

    Priority must be given to conquering Egypt, once you sow the Ptolemids up, you can concentrate on the northern frontier with peace of mind. Add to that, Egypt is naturally wealthy and well defended by distance from Carthage.
    Be careful, you may catch the plague as my soldiers did - plus they spread the plague to other areas of my empire.

    Chariot archers will be a headache against your flanks.

    Parthia will be the second major enemy after the Ptolemids, their easy access to Babylonia (Seluecia) will prove to be an annoyance almost every year. To incapacitate them, simply drive straight to their heartland in Media and capture their capital of Arsakia. It will cripple them and isolate their provinces from each other.

    Bribing their armies early will bring you Cataphracts, a good decisive arm in the earlier period of the campaign. They rely mainly on masses of medium infantry with horse archers and archers.

    As for Pontus and Armenia, they rely on masses of eastern infantry and hillmen with a smattering of javelin cavalry, archers and the odd horse archer or two.

    Greek city states rely heavily on armoured hoplites, a combination of your onw pikemen/archers and light cavalry to attack from rear will take care of them.

    If your gonna build a fleet, build fast and focus on it or don't build at all. I lost so many ships because everyone ganged up on me and smashed my navy to pieces.
    If possible conquer Cyprus early, it is rich, wealthy and superbly placed to build ships and trade. If you are going to build a navy, better to train them within close proximity to each other - namely in the province sof Cilicia, Syria and if possible - after capturing the provinces of Cyprus and Phoenicia - train naval fleets there. Concentrating in that region will allow you to raise a sizeable fleet fast.

    In my campaign, I did the usual thing and built a few early economic structures in all provinces before deciding which ones to focus my economic activity on. Syria, Coele Syria and Assyria will be the economic powerhouses of your empire earlier on. Give particular economic attention to them because they will pay for your bribes!

    They will be a few brigand, bandit armies in your provinces - defeat them early to gain command bonsuses for your commanders. Good way to practice and gain experience for your future conquering generals.
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  3. #3
    Protecting the border fort Member Chimpyang's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    One thing about the Egyptians - They have lots of Archers, so be prepared, you wont have anything in their range so either bring lots of Militia Cavalry and be prepared to lose quite a few men + horses along the way, or bribe a few archers of your own.

    There is a perfect spot in Middle Egypt where you can draw the Egyptian armies towards you across a bridge. This is what i did on my short campaign.


    1. I dragged all my troops and started seiging the closest Egyptian City. They put up some resistance but i polished them off quickly, In my other provinces I started training Militia Pikemen where i could and peasents where I couldn't.

    2. I went straight for Jerusalem, bringing up my peasents behind me as garrison. Taking Jerusalem quickly is essential as the Egyptians have no city (to my knowledge) that is close to it.

    3. By now you should have sustained quite abit of damage, rest for a short time but be ready to press on, your troops from otehr proinces shouldn't be far behind you. Trek through to middle Egypt. The aim here is to cause attrition damage to the Egyptian armies by fighting lots of battle against their small armies. All this time you should be slowly building up a force to support this.

    4. Build a couple of ships to help your armies cut a corner (well sort of) and when you're done building up another medium-ish force send it off to support the first one. When you merge them togeather try and siege Alexandria. Watch out for the Egyptian Navy though, they are quite strong for such a early time.

    5. The Pontians and the Armenians should be making moveds now. This is where you slow them down by offering peasent armies to block their path. You should have enough men to break any of their sieges. I had the Armenians try to capture the same city 5 times, each time failing completley.

    6. When you have broken Alexandria try and finish off the Egyptian quickly so you can concentrate on the other Factions. But by now you should ahve quite a income from which to base your attacks from.

    That all worked for me in a medium/medium game.

  4. #4
    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Also as the Seleucids you should capture the rebel town just to your south in western asia minor as it has a wonder. And the proximity to one of your cities means bribery is a good alternative to a siege, as you can march a group of militia hoplites into the town in one turn after you buy it. I believe that the Seleucids get access to the hephestus temple line as well. This temple gives armour/weapon and troop experience bonuses, you should build this temple in any city you want to use as a military production city. Also move to occupy Palmyra ASAP as it gives ready access to your heart lands. Not to mention that it's one more province that the egyptians won't have. Take Pheonetia and Judea as quickly as possible they are both potential money makers, but do take cyprus first. Another thing you have to be aware of is that the Egyptians move to take the 2 arabian desert provinces early on, in the frist 30 turns at least. This ins't so much a problem as it is a pain in the ass because the arab cities are not overly wealth and have slow population growth but it means that a trickle of troops coming in to harass your cities. My advise sack them, that is conquer, exterminate the populace, destroy every building your can, turn the taxes to very high and leave.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    The Seleucid do have it tough. To add to the above I like to hire Mercs for the initial push into Egypt. I leave the Eastern Inf (or whatever they're called)alone but hire camel units and Greeks when I can. I keep a diplomat around Babylon and bribe any small group of Parthians I see. It might cost more over time but if they show up with a large army led by a faction leader, money won't help you. I also make lots of diplomats to spread all over the world selling alliances, trade rights, maps, etc, to keep the cash flowing.
    He moves, you move first.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    You may be surrounded, but you can lessen the burden by sending your diplomat up in norther Asia Minor to contact Pontus as soon as possible. They will accept an alliance no problem, and give you their world map to boot. That gives you free reign from Antioch all the way to Byzantium (the Greeks cannot put up much of a fight).

    I've never tried allying with Armenia or Parthia, since their incursions into my empire have been half-hearted at best, so I've never seen them as much of a threat.

    And Egypt should be your first target, as others have stated. You don't want them to become the superpower they become if you play as one of the Roman houses and aren't around to keep them in check.
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  7. #7
    Abou's nemesis Member Krusader's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    I played the Seleucids on medium, and in first two turns I built Traders and Mines. And I let the AI handle taxes, otherwise I controlled the rest. Wealth poured into my coffers, and I used money on Antioch, Seleucia and Sardis and made these my troop training cities, and some turns later I spent cash on "economy buildings". Egyptians attacked early, but I had a sizeable army to defend myself, and I hired mercenaries. I launched a quick attack on Sidon and though losing lots of men, I conquered it. The Egyptians sent an army to relive the siege, and the besieged army sallied forth.

    Build Traders and mines and roads in the beginning, and you got enough cash to flow in for you to build better troop training facilities and hire mercenaries should the need arise.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Two more items.

    Build forts in the mountain passes leading to Tarsus and Antioch to cover your back as you drive on the Nile. The Greeks or Pontus or both will come for you and you'll need time to gather a northern field army to repel them.

    Also build an agora or whatever building that creates assassins when you get a chance. You want to kill off thoses diplomats that bribe your troops racing from one hot spot to another. And if they survive a high level killer can really come in handy.
    He moves, you move first.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Not having read all above I just want to add a few short tips...

    Strike the Egyptian provinces Sidon and Jerusalem before you do anything else after that the Egyptians will be severly crippled...acomplishing this is easy your treasury will be overflowing in the begining and spend that money on basic troops and bribing. In my campaing I probably bought 75% of the egyptian army or more...

    After egyptian crippling go on the defensive is my tip and take over Palmyra, Bostra, Petra och Dumatha one an all lightly defended...

    Also try taking Harlicarnassos beneath your turkish province since it is a okey money producer and controlls a wonder. Also If you have it then none else have. A small force and a diplomat should have no problem to buy the defencive force and just move in...

  10. #10
    Barbarian of the north Member Magraev's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    I've had a nice easy game so far (med/med). I agree with the others that Egypt has to go - the sooner the better. This gave some hairy moments early on, and I actually lost Seleucus himself to an egyptian chariot archer charge. Halicarnassus is easily bribed early on too without creating an extra front to defend, since it's behind your lines.

    Keep some diplomats on your borders to maintain the peace. Two of my family-members are from my allies Parthia and Armenia, I simply bribe anybody looking threatening. It's nice to be the richest faction on the board. This works nicely for rebels too. And remember some of the nicest mercs in the game can be bought around Tarsus (cretans and rhodeans).

    My army and navy is quite small, but that makes no difference as long as I have 300k in the bank (at around 240 bc).

    I've just built my first silver shield pikeman, and I'm completing the building for war-elefants atm. I'm looking forward to the silver shield legionnaires. The Seleucids have the most varied unit-roster of any faction.

    Edit: It's tempting to build scythed chariots but I really wouldn't recommend it. They can and will run amok and rout quickly, and besides they are one of few units who cause casualties just by moving through a friendly unit! Even elephants just push people over.
    Last edited by Magraev; 10-13-2004 at 10:09. Reason: Additions
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  11. #11

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Wanted too add a little more as my second campaign (v.hard/v.hard)with this exellent fraction (quickly becoming my fav) is going towards its conclusion.

    On very hard chariots are death...beating them especially in cities will take 10 times their number in good troops if you do not have a lot of archers...so get archers if you want to fight the egyptians....

    Also do not hord money...you can always earn more. Send hordes of diplomats over the map and if you have a strong fraction on one of your borders dont just bribe what seems treatning....bribe cities (when it will do good) small forces etc...(i usually spend all my surplus money on this) then give away cities which are hard to hold to your allies...also weakening the romans in this fashion can be very effective...

    If your allies are in war with a nation you do not what to fight (THE ROMANS maybe) then support them with money...bribe their enemies...this is a very efficient way to hamper a specific nations progress. One I used on the greeks who where being overthrown by the brutii. In a few turns and about 100k later the greeks where repelling the brutii without my support and the brutii where had gone from most powerful to somewhere in the low bottom of the scale...roman power in the east was dead in its tracks...

  12. #12

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    I want to add my vote for the Seleucids as an extremely fun to play faction. Just finished my first S. campaign (medium, medium) and it was extremely enjoyable. The S. have an extremely varied troop roster and in the late stages of the games their armies are virtually unstopablle. You have to go there, though, and in order to do that you have to repel the early agressors (Egypt, Parthia and the Greek city states attacked me in the first 4 rounds). Did for some exciting fighting, but when the dust settled, the Parthians were reduced to one province, the Greeks were out of game (thanks to the Brutii in the west, while I snatched Anatolia and Rhodes) and the Egyptians went down the drain (after a number of extremely frustrating battles - frustrating not because they were tough but because I had to face the uber-annoying Pharaonic unit lineup ).

    The key to the early survival for the S. is money. They are the richest faction all around, so if you put this money to good use, they cannot be stopped. Just create a few (or more...) diplomats and start bribing everything that moves (in the early stages... later on you can bribe unmovable objects like... cities too).

    If you survive the early onslaught and manage to leash the Egyptians, you can't lose. The Romans shall start coming hard on you, but once you have the wealth of the Seleucids and the Ptolemeans (and the superb S. units) nothing can stop you.

    I am starting a Greek campaign at Hard/Hard and I'll let you know about my progress in the relevant thread.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    My campaign (hard/hard) has reached the mid-game. Egypt, Pontus, and Armenia have been absorbed and the Parthians banished to the steppes. Rhodes is still Greek but not for long.

    After that it's Macedonia/Greece and on to the boot of Italy. I may wait a bit and beat down the Roman Navy while Macedonia expands into Thrace and away from the choice Greek cities but it should only be a matter of time and logistics.

    To turn the guide around so to speak, my biggest error was the failure to put leaders in all three Egyptian cities asap. I exterminated my way down the Nile but left only one leader in Memphis as I turned back to deal with the Armenians and Pontus. I thought putting the people to the sword would give me plenty of time but very quickly these cities were over populated and rebellious. I should have either shuttled the one leader around or brought down other family from less important cities.

    Other than some late night auto resolves things went well. If a knock-down drag-out bar fight can be said to go well.
    He moves, you move first.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Easy solution to the problem with to few leaders in egypt is buy the egyptian....

    I have done so on medium and v.hard without problem...

  15. #15
    Scandinavian and loving it Member Lazul's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    The trick when playing as Seluc, is not to rely totaly on your own soldiers but save up some money, and hire a "MISTY LIGHTS 120 load" of mercs.

    A good tactic with a combined force of seluc soldiers and merc is:

    In center you place 4 pike units, behind them archers.
    On each flank you place a bout 2-3 Eastern mercs. Now thats a good wall.
    For cav i suggest Arabs and Beduins Camels, very effective when fighting in the desert atleast.
    Anyway, dont underestimate the power of mercs. I hade about 2 full armies of only mercs that Totaly crushed both the Parthians and the Armenians while my own troops took care of the Pontus and holding back all the suciadal Egyptians.
    Last edited by Kekvit Irae; 09-16-2006 at 14:40.
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  16. #16
    Member Member Mr Frost's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazul
    The trick when playing as Seluc, is not to rely totaly on your own soldiers but save up some money, and hire a "MISTY LIGHTS 120 load" of mercs.

    A good tactic with a combined force of seluc soldiers and merc is:

    In center you place 4 pike units, behind them archers.
    On each flank you place a bout 2-3 Eastern mercs. Now thats a good wall.
    For cav i suggest Arabs and Beduins Camels, very effective when fighting in the desert atleast.
    Anyway, dont underestimate the power of mercs. I hade about 2 full armies of only mercs that Totaly crushed both the Parthians and the Armenians while my own troops took care of the Pontus and holding back all the suciadal Egyptians.


    I have a very spiffing 20+ unit army of Mercenary Sythian Horse Archers and Sarmatian Mercenaries built eagerly over the years with which I have suitably punished the foolish agression from the Sythians {I took their Eastern City and was pleased to note it produces +3 experience troops } and will eventually conquer the steppes with such Mercenaries .

    The Selucids have the greatest potential for power in the game ; they are like the Medieval Germans if they were based in the Middle East - Gothic Swiss Armoured Pike Pavise Arbalaster toting armies raised with near unlimited cashflow
    Last edited by Kekvit Irae; 09-16-2006 at 14:39.
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  17. #17
    Member Member Tritio's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    I started a short campaign recently, and finished it (one of the few that I did), here are my observations.

    Finances

    The biggest earners in the world are the Greeks, Egyptians, aaaaand... the Seleucids. Here, your cash flow is great, you'd probably start off with ~10k, and when focusing on economic development and expansion (building farms, ports, traders in your cities and nipping rebel provinces) you can probably net in ~20k profit, even with big armies composed of mercenaries. However, one thing prevents you from exploiting your wealth fully...

    Population

    With the exception of your capital, Antioch, most of your other provinces do not hit the 'safe' 6k population limit anytime soon, even with slave influx from your conquests. Why 6k? because at that point, assuming 1.5% pop growth, you will have a growth rate of 90 per turn. Just enough to keep hiring the smaller units, like your militia hoplites, but not enough for levy pikemen (120 men on large unit sizes). Yes, your growth rate is often higher than 1.5%, but precision aside, most of your provinces only have 1-2k pop. These are your 'lower level cities', and you will accumulate plenty of these as you conquer rebel cities. Firstly, they cannot be developed very far (mostly you'd have to wait some time before you can even build a port!), and you can't use your fabulous piles of gold to raise troops from them.

    The solution: development and slavery

    With your cash flow, you will be able to build structures in your cities every turn, hire units from your bigger cities, and still have leftovers. So, in the beginning, focus on farms and trading buildings! (Trading buildings, such as market, trader, give 0.5% pop growth) I remember that the first structures I constructed in my first turn were all farms, where they could be built.
    Second, slavery, keep enslaving captured enemy cities! You badly need the population, and while I couldn't bother to manage my governers (to control which cities got the slaves), it still helped me immensely.
    I remember Bostra (the western edge of Arabia) was a tiny city with under 1k pop, I left a governer there and forgot about him, and as I conquered the Egyptian cities, Bostra grew to a large town of ~5k pop! I had to handle much unrest along the way, but it was interesting to watch...

    HOWEVER...
    The way to transform your money into military might is through:

    Mercenaries!!!

    Although some players have expressed their view that they seldom use mercs, I consider them vital in my playstyle. Especially vital as the Seleucids! Firstly, because of the aforementioned pop shortage, raising native armies would grind your cities down into the sands. Mercs allow convenient conversion of cash into men, and men back into cash (not so quickly, but through upkeep reduction) as you see fit. The mercs you get are not bad too. Around the eastern mediterannean, Numidian mercs, Eastern infantry (horrible... they flee at the sight of their shadows), Libyan mercs, etc. While these may not sound great, your real merc hiring grounds are in Asia Minor! There, you can get the best of the best: Cretans, Rhodians, Merc Hoplites, and Peltasts. And they often spawn 4 at a time. Which makes control of Asia Minor vital to you... There are 2 rebel provinces there, make it a priority to get them! They are much better than those desert provinces in the wastes. Through my mad conquests (I am highly expansionist), I grew to love mercs, Often, the bulk of my army would consist of them.

    Remember, the Might of the Seleucids, their diverse and powerful units, only come in the late game.

    Egyptians

    As I was playing the short campaign, my objectives were to bust these guys out of the game. Their weaknesses:

    Provinces

    They start with 5. Although all are capable of building good units, and they have good growth, and pop to start with, Sidon and Jerusalem can easily be taken early, leaving them with their core production cities on the Nile. The trick to killing the Egyptians is to do it Early !!! The moment your Empire learns to walk, start shoving your mercs into their face!

    Then, their weakness becomes evident: They are unable to express their wealth. Why? They only have 3 cities, thus their max production is 3 units/turn. Mercs? Yes, but they only appear so often. When you reign from Asia Minor to the Wastes of Arabia (or just Bostra), your recruiting grounds would be far greater then them, and your cities will be so much further and safer from your battleground, usually between Bostra and the Nile (and the narrow strip of land there).
    Even if you are unable to raise troops and get them to the fight (it's a long walk), you, as a player, can still express your wealth better through bribery! Bribe anything that moves, and caries a yellow flag. You might consider bribing things that can't move, and flies a yellow flag too. Bribe their diplomats to ensure they can't be counterbribed. In this way, even if they hire mercs, it's no problem, mercs are cheap, and so are their troops!
    I bribed everything that bothered me as the Seleucids, rebels, rivals (to stop the Armenians/ Pontics/Parthians from attacking me), and later I bribed the 2 rebel towns in Asia Minor too! Needen't bother to go through the trouble of a fight, then.
    Cheers for bribery! I absolutely love it. Makes me feel like a rich bugger

    Other nations

    Pah, they are easily settled down with a lump of gold. Whenever you see a large army flying foreign colours, just send a diplomat there to settle them down. If there are family members, just try anyway, since your rivals (Armenians/Pontics/Parthians) are fairly small, losing a family member would set them back some. You'd be surprised at the price people ask for to settle down as farmers...

    Anyway, while you settle the Egyptians, keep your back clear with Alliances. Gift "Attack faction: Rebels" to them several times (you'd have plenty of opportunities), and they'll likely settle down. Once, myself being allied with all 3 neighbours (no, the Egyptians are not my neighbours), Parthia decided to betray me, and seiged my eastern city. Foolishly, they allied themselves to the Armenians on the same turn. They reverted back to neutral on that turn, their army lifting the seige. The next turn, my diplomat arrived, and no more army. A few turns later, they accepted an alliance again! With two way military access! What was their king smoking?!

    Anyway, just suppress their ambitions with lots of bribery. If they only have tiny armies, then they won't attack you. Simple.



    So, anyway, those are my observations, although they turned out a lot longer than I expected, I hope they were helpful!
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  18. #18
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    just an observation:
    Eastern mercs being as bad as they are, thy bring humangous numbers (120?)
    SO.....use them to absorb charges. Chariots, elephants (if you are ever to face them), heavy cavalry, etc.... Besides, they are good to pin troops for your pikes/hoplites because they are slow.

    Just my 2 cent
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  19. #19

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    I'm also loving the Seleucids, though on v.hard (battle) and hard (campaign), it's a struggle, and I'm on to my third attempt...

    But one thing I found out is that though the S. have great units, it takes ages to get your cities up to the point where they can recruit them - except scythed chariots, which only needs a blacksmith, and as they don't take many men (60, compared to 160 for pikemen etc), they don't hurt city expansion too much.

    Now they're useless in cities, and a liability in alarge battle as they'll run amok easily (especially on the higher difficulty level) and, if they get in amongst your lines, can do more damage to your own army than just about anything the enemy can throw at you.

    However... I had an army of about 6 or 7 scythed chariots, with a general to keep at the back to stop them routing, and just sent them out in to the field to mop up any small armies wandering around my lands, and nothing could stand in their way. Just send them all into the attack straight away and they'll wipe out pretty much anything. They absolutely trerrify enemy units, causing much routing, they're not very vulnerable to missile fire, and they're very quick. Also, if they rout, they tend to run amok and carry on killing the enemy (you don't have any infantry or cav units for them to hurt).

    Not so good on spearman - which is a problem in that area, but can often beat a phalanx just by scaring them, they're very spread out so tend to surround anyone they attack in a whirlwind of scythed death. Mmmm....

    And, and this is pretty obvious, but recruit every unit of cretan archers you can find in Asia Minor - they are awesome (they start with a missile attack of 10 compared ot 7 for normal archers), and I love the accent of the bloke who says 'Cereashan arshers' every time you select them...

    Oh, and a quick question - someone mentioned above that bribing the Parthians means you get to keep their cataphracts. Now, I know that you get to keep units if you can build that unit yourself, but does that apply if you can potentially build the unit but not actually build them, ie, could the Seleucids bribe cataphracts even if they haven't yet built the buildings that can make them?

  20. #20

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Fridge
    Oh, and a quick question - someone mentioned above that bribing the Parthians means you get to keep their cataphracts. Now, I know that you get to keep units if you can build that unit yourself, but does that apply if you can potentially build the unit but not actually build them, ie, could the Seleucids bribe cataphracts even if they haven't yet built the buildings that can make them?

    Absolutely yes. In both my succesful Seleucids campaings (first on M/M second on VH/VH) I bribed the starting Parthian cataphracts to join me and they joined alright. Seems that the potential is that counts, not the actual ability
    When the going gets tough, the tough shit their pants

  21. #21
    Guest Es Arkajae's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    The Seleucids are very easy (on medium difficulty anyway, 'hard' difficulty just adds stats to enemy units afterall), I reccommend making alliances with all your neighbours Greece, Pontus, Armenia, and Parthia make one with Egypt too if you like but they'll almost certainly break it a few turns later in any case.

    I'm not sure about exactly what effect an alliance has and how less likely it makes a nation to attack one but I know that I was not attacked by my other neighbours until I already had the Egyptians on the ropes which was a real benefit. Out of my other neighbours the only one that gave me any real trouble was Pontus.

    Ionia is capable of defending itself (with a general to hire mercs), you needn't even bother building too many military buildings there as long as you have money you can bribe enemy armies or hire mercenaries in the area which can give you units as varied as barbarian cavalry, Thracian mercenaries, Cretan archers, mercenary hoplites and Rhodian slingers, i.e. all you need for a good combined arms army. Cilicia is easily protected by building a fortress blocking the pass and sticking some militia there, the computer AI is seemingly loathe to attack forts and does so only rarely I've seen and if he does a diplomat will usually take care of the problem. You may want to hire some Cretan archers and then send them to Antioch to join the army you will inevitably be sending to conquer Egypt, they will come in especially useful in sieges of non-stone walled cities where they can clear the enemy out of the way of breaches by shooting over the wall.

    Chariots are indeed a pain in the arse but nothing that a good phalanx even of levy pikemen can't fix if they meet them head on and you should only have to face an Egyptian army in the field a few times at most, the rest of the time it will be in sieges where the enemy can't get behind you.

    Levy pikemen will be your main troops for the conquest of Asia, build around six or even eight of them for each army (if you can get better pikemen then great, but levy pikemen will do just remember that they're very vulnerable to missile fire), add a couple units of militia cavalry, add a couple units of Rhodian slingers or Cretan archers and at least one unit of elephants (to use as a battering ram on wooden walls/gates without having to wait to build equipment). Add also some fodder troops such as a couple of militia hoplite units or some of the otherwise useless Eastern infantry mercs for ...well ...fodder which you will occasionaly find useful.

    With these armies you will quickly conquer all of Asia.

    First step is Sidon and Jersusalem, you should take these places as soon as war is declared even if the army I mentioned above isn't ready, use militia hoplites and whatever you have at hand including mercs if neccessary, bribe any enemy you can, bribing a leaderless enemy army can strangely save you a lot of money ultimately but more importantly time.

    The idea is to blitzkrieg your way through enemy cities, when you conquer a city (especially an Egyptian one) exterminate its population, if the temple there maintains happiness better than one of yours would then leave it for now, you can tear it down and put up your own a bit later when you have a few units of militia hoplites in the city and your army is already gone on to the next city or two.

    Once you conquer a city (always assaulting on the first turn with your elephants if the walls are wooden), go to the retrain section and 'top up' as many troops as you can in one turn replacing your losses and maybe adding some better troops in one turn if the infrastructure allows for it. If your losses aren't that bad and you still have some good movement points left then then don't even wait for that, buy some local mercs to leave behind or leave behind your remaining fodder troops or one unit of your regular troops that you can probably do without to join you later to keep the city behind you pacified and then move on. Each turn you save means an extra unit that an enemy city can't produce.

    I built four armies over time in my conquest of Asia, only two of which got much use, one for Egypt, two for the north, and one for the East (which I only used to conquer Susa)


    You border provinces should be Libya and Cyrenaica (the Numidians will attack you so do it first) with your by now likely outdated Egypt army parked in a fort on the border with Tripolitania in case the Scipii who will most likely own it try anything funny, your only other land border should be with Scythia in the north where four well placed border forts with four militia units can seal it.

    The Parthians will probably still exist in Tribus Sakae which will be annoying as you will probably have to build a strong Caspian navy to get to the bastards if you can't get an access agreement with the Scythians but if you can land one of your original armies there and sack and leave the city all the more kudos to you in getting rid of a minor annoyance.

    You should own Cyprus, Rhodes and Crete so by this point you will have enough provinces so that a war against the Roman factions will take you over the fifty province requirement. So sit back and build up your navy and three or four or more Uber Armies of Doom with the better units you will now have at your disposal and when you're ready strike at the Romans (and probably the Macedonians).

    I would strongly reccommend loading your armies onto fleets and then simultaneously landing them where you want them to go overseas in the same turn, before you declare war on the Romans, this avoids the embarrassing problem of having an enemy fleet intercept yours and prevent a landing..

    In the tradition of blitzkrieg the first thing the Romans should know about war with you is when your armies all come knocking at the gates of Lepcis Magna, Tarentum, Syracuse and whatever most important city they have in Greece all in the same turn.

    Well thats enough of me probably talking out of my arse for now, hope it helps, certainly did my false sense of modesty no harm:p

  22. #22

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Es Arkajae
    The Seleucids are very easy (on medium difficulty anyway, 'hard' difficulty just adds stats to enemy units afterall), I reccommend making alliances with all your neighbours Greece, Pontus, Armenia, and Parthia make one with Egypt too if you like but they'll almost certainly break it a few turns later in any case.
    It's not the battle difficulty that's a problem, it's the campaign! I tried a v.hard/v.hard game and within the first four turns the Pontics had bribed Tarsus (despite our 'alliance'), and the Egyptians, Parthians and Armenians had all declared war - the Greek cities weren't far behind...

    Tried again on hard campaign difficulty, and I'm still fighting a war on three fronts, and just waiting for the Pontics to come after Tarsus...

  23. #23
    Guest Es Arkajae's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Fridge
    It's not the battle difficulty that's a problem, it's the campaign! I tried a v.hard/v.hard game and within the first four turns the Pontics had bribed Tarsus (despite our 'alliance'), and the Egyptians, Parthians and Armenians had all declared war - the Greek cities weren't far behind...

    Tried again on hard campaign difficulty, and I'm still fighting a war on three fronts, and just waiting for the Pontics to come after Tarsus...
    Alliances are only good for dragging other nations into your wars through sneaky actions in any case, like I said I have no idea what effect they actually have on the liklihood of ones enemies to attack but I'd wager its not much.

    But good point on the diplomats, that was something I didn't take into account when making my comment, the AI does indeed get more sneaky with agents on higher levels, something to look out for.

    The answer though is speed, no matter how smart the enemy AI is it can still only produce one unit per city, per turn.

    In fact the blitzkrieg tactics are so damned effective that I've stopped using them for some games, my enemies never even get to build their higher end units and the games end too quickly with too few battles. Takes alot of the fun out of it really. Something to take into account if you're in the game for lots of fun.
    Last edited by Es Arkajae; 11-11-2004 at 20:59.

  24. #24
    War Story Recorder Senior Member Maltz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    I only played the Selucid for 3 turns, just offering a small tip.

    I already grabbed the Egyptian town Sidon & the Parthia town (Susa?) just adjacent to the hanging garden.

    You can hold your army in Selucia for the first turn, train a diplomat there, then on the 2nd turn sending the diplomat out to bribe whatever that comes out of the Parthia town, then the town is left defenseless.

    Now is the time to send out your governer. He has some movement retinue so he can siege the Parthia town in the same turn he departs from Selucia. Great stuff! So I could take the town on turn 3.

    Egyptians will also send out captain lead armies available for bribe. Selucid is so rich, so you can probably bribe them all in no time. (I haven't really played it so I am just guessing.)

    Then with your starting army and mercenaries, perhaps you can quickly conquer a series of Egyptian towns there. After playing all the poor clans of Numida, Dacia and Spanish I found Selucid such a huge blessing.

  25. #25

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    One little tip - and I expect this applies to any of the Greeks, or indeed, anyone with access to phalanxes (phalanges? never sure) - actually, scratch that, it's not a tip, it's a cheat.

    But, if you're under siege in a town with wooden walls, and line deploy your phalanx/ges as close to the wall as you can get them (right click and drag), their spears go through the wall and actually engage the enemy troops manning the ram. You'll only kill them slowly, but the upshot is they never actually get to do any damage to your walls, and you don't take any casualties.

    You've got to watch for the phalanx shuffle, I tend to arrange mine in a rank four deep with the right hand flank just in front of the spot they're going to ram, but you might need a couple of spares to fill the gap once your first phalanx has shuffled all the way over.

    Yeah, it's a cheat. And yeah, I feel guilty, but well, y'know...

  26. #26
    Member Member T.N.T. Toulouse's Avatar
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    Question Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Do the Seleucids have the same culture as the Greeks, i.e. do the Greek cities' temples cause a culture penalty?

  27. #27
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    I think they're in the same lump. Or at least when I walked over that little Greek City in western Asia Minor (Pergamum) after it tried a Very Stupid Thing, namely sent an all-hoplite army against the pile of Cretans and Rhodesians I'd accumulated in Sardis, there wasn't the least bit of culture penalty visible.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  28. #28

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Pikemen are without a doubt the best infrantry in the game. They will help by protecting prized missile units. In this topic I will give you a full lo-down on the greek based civilisations and all who use the pikemen.


    Ok check this

    .= Archers
    -=Cavalry
    |=Infrantry

    |||| .... ||||

    ---- ----

    This is almost what the default formation looks like when you first enter the game.


    But here's one I suggest:

    || |||||| ||
    ---- .... ----

    Now that is a good formation. The cavalry are far behind to counter flanks the pikemen on the sides are facing the flank and the archers are in a safe area. There you can advance in a in a orgonised way. Here's another good one:


    ||||||
    ---- || ....|| ----
    Like that the army can pierce through the line and split them in to two!


    Campaign Moves


    Greek Cities: Conquer any rebel state near your territories. Then head up north for Macedon and elimnate them. Then go west taking over north Italy and head for Rome. In that time you can hit them before the Post Mairus starts.
    Macedon: Do the same as greeks but the opposite.
    Sellucids: This time do a double campaign, send one army east to aniahlate Parthia, send a second west for Turkey and the the other south for Egypt.
    Egypt: This one is harder your squished in a narrow gap between Numidia and Sellucid Empire. Again do double campaign to capture the west. There is a small territory. Near you which links to the main coast capture that to head for Greece for a alliance, they will help you with the Sellucid kingdom and Pontus invasion.

  29. #29

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    I’ve been playing the Seleucids for some time now, and I’m now in a knock down drag out fight with the Romans – after defeating army after army in Greece, they’ve just now retaken Athens (Only because it was late at night, and I couldn’t be bothered doing another siege so auto-resolved!). My biggest problem is transport – the Romans with their Thracian allies (damn them!) completely dominate the sea, and even big fleets of quinqueremes are mobbed as soon as they get within sight of Italia or Siclilia..

    I know if I can just get there, that they’ll have stripped Italia bare of armies, and go on conquering with my armoured elephants, silver shield legionaries and companion cavalry to my hearts content. I just can’t get there!! I can’t emphasise enough the importance of building up fleets…

    I have however, taken most of the former Carthaginian holdings from the Romans, and even taken the closest city in Sicilia. I knew that the big cities in Sicilia would continue to pump out legionaries till even I broke…

  30. #30

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    I hate the Thracians. Ive been playing SE for a while and I have all of Eygpt and Persia....as I attack Spain (which took over Carthage, i have no idea how) i get attacked by the Thracians....4 HUGE ARMIES!!!!! They took everything from me....AHHH that makes me so mad, but then again...its awesome because the AI comes up with crazy surprises LOL

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