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Thread: Carthage

  1. #61
    Member Member adg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    i am playing Carthage on VH -campaign/M-battles. i had just come off playing M:TW so a lot of my play was influenced by what worked there. i started off by getting an alliance with the greeks and the spanish and a little later i also got an alliance with the britannia before sending my diplomats around the world to get as many trade agreements as possible. once the scippii attacked the greeks i attacked them and took Mesaana. as this was only my second campaign and i hadn't discovered this board, i thought this would cripple the scippi for a while and i went on to take out the numidians leaving siwa. imagine my surprise when the bruti landed a large army at mesaana and the julii landed at caralis. i defeated the brutii army but lost caralis. as i was preparing an army at carthage to take back caralis another brutii army landed near thapsus, so i had to take them out. then the greeks on sicily decided to attack lillybyem so i had to take out syraceus. after sinking a few greek ships, they offered me a ceasefire which i took. meanwhile the scippi were landing unimpressive armies for me to demolish on sicily. during all this the spanish kept trying to bribe my general in cordoba and failing. i decided to take out the romans and landed troops in southern italy and easily took out the brutii cities and capua (amazingly the brutti had not conquered anything in greece so i ended up wiping out both factions). i took out rome, reconquered caralis and took out the numidians in the siwa. as soon as i took siwa though, massive egyptian armies appeared and chased me out of siwa. i then took the three julii provinces in northern italy and paid them a lot of denari to become a protectorate. because the julli were allied with the egyptians, as soon as they became a protectorate, i automatically got a ceasefire with the egyptians. meanwhile the britons had taken out the gauls and celtiberia was now a rebel city. after taking numantia i decided to break my alliance with the spanish and took them out easily in a few turns. i also took crete which once i build a port there is a good little money earner. during this time the egyptians broke the ceasefire and i have spent much of my time with them just battling over siwa (there is about 6 famous battlesites around siwa now) before finally pushing them back. i have just taken cyprus, thebes, memphis and alexandria but am now facing unrest in a lot of my cities. and memphis and alexandria are suffering from the plague. also i didnt know about getting rid of foreign temples in the cities i've conquered so this is probally a contributing factor in my unrest problems. plus i didnt know anything about controlling population growth. i think i shoud have exterminated the populace in the three main egyptians cities as they are all huge cites. I did find myself reling mainly on my cavalry in battles though.
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  2. #62
    Baron Member Ulfang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Sounds about right :) I'm a Vet of MTW too and still prefer that era and you could more or less trust your allies back then. In RTW unless you are a protectorate of someone or they are one of yours you can forget trusting anyone! I was allied with Spain they broke that alliance twice before i eventually wiped them off the map. The stupid thing is even then its next to impossible for them to win a war they'll still declare war on you!

    The way to stop the Romans is have enough Naval units in the Med and staying ahead in Naval technology! I've ruled the Med since the start and the romans have tried many time to land troops on my islands but have been sunk every time! I've not had a single problem with them.

    I'm the same with public order its been my worst enemy. If enemy spies are in your cities that will affect it so you need to keep one or two spies in your cities (or your biggest ones if you can't afford that). I control all of Numidia now as well as Spain and all the Med Islands. The only problem is the lack of cash. I'm making about 4-5k a turn now but rely on mercenaries in Spain so it can take a while to build things up!

    Without Cavalry Cathage struggles but with them the mobile armies are very strong. I've taken on heavy troops with my light armies and the cavalry wins the day everytime and i'm playing on h/h. Last battle i fought was against the numidians and was a small encounter with the Numidians with 800 troops to my 300. My army consisted of one Mercenary Hoplite unit, some javelinmen and the rest was Missile Cavalry, a General's bodyguard and some round shield light cav against them with about 5-6 units of spearmen, 2 units of Misslile cav, A general with bodyguard and javelinmen. Was touch and go to start with but with the cav used to great effect I eventually decimated them. I lost 100 men and they lost 700
    Last edited by Ulfang; 03-17-2005 at 16:17.
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  3. #63
    Member Member Atreides's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    @ adg

    You can (and should) destroy the temples of any other faction then the Numbian, the Numbian are similar to your culture and have YOUR gods. You can do this by:
    1. Go to the city.
    2. Right click on the temple
    3. There is a destroy button. It appears as a hammer.

    Good luck.

  4. #64
    Baron Member Ulfang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Yea i've heard that before. How do you know if the culture is the same as yours. I always slaughter the populace when taking over a city cos as far as i know there's no way to know prior to taking it over if the populace will be happy with their new owners so its too dangerous to just occupy the settlement!?
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  5. #65
    Member Member adg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    well, i just read the beginners guide at the top of the forum and it tells you. for example all the barbarians have the same culture (gaul, britannia, scythia), and all the roman factions have the same culture. but i had no idea about culture when i started the game. another thing was that in M:TW i had automanage taxes on but in R:TW, i think automanaging taxes results in too much unrest
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  6. #66
    Member Member Atreides's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfang
    Yea i've heard that before. How do you know if the culture is the same as yours. I always slaughter the populace when taking over a city cos as far as i know there's no way to know prior to taking it over if the populace will be happy with their new owners so its too dangerous to just occupy the settlement!?

    Culture according the guide on this forum (which is great! )

    Group I: Romans. SQPR, Julii, Brutii & Scpii.
    Group II: Greeks. Greek cities, Macedon, Thrace, the Selucid empire.
    Group III: Barbarians: Gauls, Germania, Britania, Dacia, Spain
    Group IV: Africans: Carthage, Numidia, Egypt(? not sure)
    Group V: Easterns: Parthia, Armania, Scythia, Pontus

    To lower cultural penalty:
    --> destroy temple (build yours) (uneless it's your culture)
    --> Destory/Overwrite buildings. I prefer overwriting, cheaper and faster. Overwriting is level 1 barracks was present --> build level 2.

    So do not always enslave. Only large cities are a real problem. Distence to capital also matters. But that is more an and game issue (rember you can move your capital).

  7. #67
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Egypt is a unique culture of its own. However, if you, whoever you are (Greeks, Romans, Carthaginians, etc.) have control of the Pyramid wonder (near Memphis) you will recieve no cultural penalty from the Egyptian buildings in any cities.

    Sometimes you may want to keep some other faction's temples standing for their bonuses which you have no access to. Though, in most cases, just burn the temples down. However, if it's a +law temple in an unruly-newly conquered city you may want it to stand there for a while until you're sure that city won't rebel without it.

    The same culture don't always mean the same temples are accessible to all factions of that culture. For example: there is no Athena's temple for the Seleucids, though you will not suffer cultural penalty if you left it standing. You won't be able to upgrade it, however.

  8. #68
    Baron Member Ulfang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by Atreides
    Culture according the guide on this forum (which is great! )

    Group I: Romans. SQPR, Julii, Brutii & Scpii.
    Group II: Greeks. Greek cities, Macedon, Thrace, the Selucid empire.
    Group III: Barbarians: Gauls, Germania, Britania, Dacia, Spain
    Group IV: Africans: Carthage, Numidia, Egypt(? not sure)
    Group V: Easterns: Parthia, Armania, Scythia, Pontus

    To lower cultural penalty:
    --> destroy temple (build yours) (uneless it's your culture)
    --> Destory/Overwrite buildings. I prefer overwriting, cheaper and faster. Overwriting is level 1 barracks was present --> build level 2.

    So do not always enslave. Only large cities are a real problem. Distence to capital also matters. But that is more an and game issue (rember you can move your capital).
    Yea read the Guide properly last night. I'd just brushed over it previously :) My problem areas have always been Spain. I checked last night and what an idiot ... I still had foreign temples! I thought i'd razed them and replaced them but obviously not. Order is still low but is now slightly higher than it was once i built my own temples.

    You've sort of answered my next question. Other buildings such as Barracks etc that are still foreign. When you say overwrite you mean that when you build to the next level they become your own cultures buildings right? Most of my buildings in Spain are Barbarians but wasn't sure if that affected anything. I mean i can understand a foreign temple causing unrest but not a foreign built Barracks!?

    On a final amusing note. The Scipii were wiped out last night when there final City revolted to the hands of barbarians ... something to do with my ships blockading them no doubt
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  9. #69
    Member Member Atreides's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I am not sure if you have an question:

    But foreign buildings DO have un cultural penalty.
    But most important is the central building (governors building) and of course the temple.

    Normally just wait till you van upgrade it (of destroy it).

  10. #70
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    A couple of things. Scythians are a barbarian culture!

    Egyptians are their own culture and have the Pyramids to keep em happy.

    Carthaginians and Numidians are the Carthaginian culture. With patch 1.2, mousing over in the town tab will have the culture displayed. For example in Sparta, it might have Awesome Temple of Nike (Greek) in that format.

    Governor's can be up to 20% and temples are 30% IIRC. Usually, enslave/exterminate populace and rebuild temples. Governor's you wait to upgrade. All other buildings have negligible culture penalty and are not worth building over.

  11. #71

    Lightbulb Re: Carthage

    carthage i didnt find that hard to play i brought all my troops out of every were but carthage,lilybaeum and palma .and i left corduba alone 2 but i took sicilia by storm and forced the romans back then i built up three armys and set a full scale attack on rome and wiped every one out other than brutti in apollinia .if u attack scippi s.p.q.r and julli,brutti at teh same time they cant help each other therefore u can take them .if u do it before they get to am they are weeker and u can take them easyer .
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  12. #72

    Default Re: Carthage

    I tried one thing, and it actually worked quite well. Quickly sacrifice Cordoba by giving it to anyone as a gift and pull all your troops out to the east, and only keep a poor force in Caralis (at best). Cordoba is basically on their own, and you can't afford to get any reinforcements by navy. I would instead grab Kydonia (that is a REALLY great place for income). Then take Sicily fast (your troops should do a lot better against the Romans if you're on the open plain, since you've got brilliant cavalry, and those elephants really stuff the Romans up).

    Consolidate for a few turns - just to quickly build up an army and transport them all to sicily. As soon as the Scipii attack you (its a lot easier to replace losses when you're on home soil), quickly push up through the Italian peninsula and take both the Brutii homelands and the Scipii homelands. (just make sure the Brutii army is actually IN greece first... you don't want too many major battles). And remember to sink any roman ships you find! Take most the peninsula, making sure you blockade the few northern passes with forts.

    Remember to liberally use the elephants in every battle, rampaging elephants are the ultimate bane against both the Romans and the Greeks, since they're very infantry based civilisations, and a quick infantry charge or a cavalry charge following the elephants spells death for any infantry. (just don't bother sending elephants against some troops. namely Spartan Hoplites and other elite troops. they'll get massacred).

  13. #73

    Default Re: Carthage

    i dont have much experience with campaigns with the carthaginians but taking out the romans before the marius reforms is quite important

  14. #74
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Shadar, I consider it defeatist attitude to let go of Cordoba.

    Personally, I use enslaving trick to pump population into Cordoba. Once it grows to large town level, you can produce diplomats to counter Spanish diplomats which are the bane of your existence as that's the only way you lose Cordoba.

    You can also bribe the Spanish troops to join you as you share nearly identical rosters. You can rapidly grab all of the Spanish penisula while you mainly focus on the east. Mining in Spain is very profitable.

  15. #75
    Member Member Atreides's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by katank
    A couple of things. Scythians are a barbarian culture!

    Egyptians are their own culture and have the Pyramids to keep em happy.

    Carthaginians and Numidians are the Carthaginian culture. With patch 1.2, mousing over in the town tab will have the culture displayed..
    .
    Your right.

    I did not see that of the Scythians but they are too obvious.

    The Egyptian got oddly an own culture.

  16. #76
    Baron Member Ulfang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by katank
    Shadar, I consider it defeatist attitude to let go of Cordoba.

    Personally, I use enslaving trick to pump population into Cordoba. Once it grows to large town level, you can produce diplomats to counter Spanish diplomats which are the bane of your existence as that's the only way you lose Cordoba.

    You can also bribe the Spanish troops to join you as you share nearly identical rosters. You can rapidly grab all of the Spanish penisula while you mainly focus on the east. Mining in Spain is very profitable.
    I agree and if you want to do a "Hannibal" you need a base in Spain. Thats how i'm playing my game now. My Main army has just arrived on the borders of the Alps :)

    Gonna try VH/VH next. The game is still to easy really the Romans should do a lot better. In my game both Julii and Scipii were pacifists so now Rome looks pretty much doomed! If you don't play a Roman Faction its should be extremely difficult to beat them!
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  17. #77
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Well, it is if you're an Eastern faction.

    They, if left alone, will overrun anything, namely Greece/Africa and began massing armies of principes and triarii to take more and more land. If left alone after that (if you're not cheating and play VH/M in an eastern faction then you probably do) until they get Marian (220 B.C) they'll begin the mass-produce something like...Urban Cohort. Full stack. Plenty of full Urban stacks.

    You know what's that supposed to mean, right?

    Why give up Spain? Get one dip/or spy to prevent Spanish bribe and you're fine. You have a decently good army there, you know. Besides, remember..there is 'A Carthage' in Spain! Called Carthago Nova. Take it for Baal's sake!

    Of course, the Carthage rush is one of the most appealing in the game. The result would be Carthage - super power within a few years.

    Numidia's no threat. They got small armies, attractively weak cities, and if you have a problem with the numidian cavalry then recruit some yourself!

    Though my personal preference here is pretty strange. I beat up Numidia out of Tingi and Cirta but simply make them protecterate in Dimmidi, and give them another, smaller desert town in the deep interior. It's nice to have a protectorate in my back that can never betray me.

    Spain? It's wealthy. It's a man-power base. It's easier to conquer than most, and it looks historically nice to own them. You don't even have to ferry reinforcements from Africa to help. Let Spanish-born Carthaginians conquer Spain for Carthage.

    Sicily/Italy needs real focus. Beat them hard and fast. Rush until they're doomed. Or...you want challenge? Take Sicily and leave Italy alone. THAT's challenge for late game!

    After that (fall of Italy) I often go for the Nile as a bloodiest conqueror of Egypt ever...and the final triumphant 'crusade' to retake Carthage's motherland: Phoenicia as a final 50th province.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
    After that (fall of Italy) I often go for the Nile as a bloodiest conqueror of Egypt ever...and the final triumphant 'crusade' to retake Carthage's motherland: Phoenicia as a final 50th province.
    Phoenicia - is that Sidon? I don't have the map with me but I am reffering this from memory of a book about the Phoenicians and the beginning of Naval Trade...

  19. #79
    Member Member Atreides's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Carthage (M/M)

    It’s great game but from the start your utterly ANATOMY. You will be at war probably with:
    - All Roman fractions (4)
    - Numbia
    - Spain
    - Gaul

    So that will be seven fractions! But if your survive the initial Roman blow. You run the day.

    Once Siccily the Romans will attack the Greeks and you afterwards. So sell an alliance to the Greece and attack! Let the Greek fight first (and lose) to the Romans in your combined attack! In this way you can keep them as a powerless ally on your Island. Then take the Roman settlement. They will return on the Siccily over and over again (which bleed them dry).

    Keep also your province on Sardine. The juli will attack you but killing is easy. Use it as an training ground for your generals.


    Regarding further expansion. Build a good city and defence in Spain. Wait with the expansion. In Africa try to take some rebel towns. But your main aim is Italy. Try to take the last settlement of the Scipii. When you take those settlement the Brutti keep attacking you. So take also their towns. Than take out the senate julli and the (former) Gallic towns.

    When conquered real italy you got 12 very rich provinces and some more. Taking Spain and Africa is now easy achievable. What other eara you take is yours. I also took France, the entire Greece area and Egypt. (Yeah 50 provincens is quite a lote).

    General tactics:
    - The romans are your main foe. They are extremely strong with their infantry. So counterattack that with your very descent Calvary.
    - Elephants. Their great. They will be alble to nock down all gates (except with stone walls of course), kills calvery by the dozen and disrupting, intimidating infantry. Best use is an elephant charge directly followed by an calvery attack.
    - Don’t loose your initial elephant. Cause you will not be able to train new one for quite a while.
    - Play ALL your battles. DO NOT auto resolve.

    Well, Carhagens are the most tough campaign you can play with any civilized faction (all Greeks, Romans and Egypt). You don’t need to abbondon any citie, just don’t concentrate since you will NEED to fight the romans.

    Ps1: For more detail I recommend the strategy of ‘red harvest’ which is almost identical to mine.
    Ps2: Your final units (sacred band infantry, sacred band calvery, War Elephants, Armoured Elephants, Poeni Infantry) are very good.
    Ps3: Forget navy. Keep them in your ports for transport duty only.
    Last edited by Kekvit Irae; 09-16-2006 at 14:47.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by Atreides
    Ps3: Forget navy. Keep them in your ports for transport duty only.
    This is extremely bad advice. With the proper use of navy, you can defend Sicily without ever fighting a land battle.

    The only way the Scipii can get to Sicily, once you take their city, is by boat. They will continually load up their armies on a single ship. Sink that ship, and their army goes down with it. This is a much better approach than constantly fighting land battles.

    Bh

  21. #81
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Also fighting all 7 faction at once is extremely suicidal....

    The numidians will not come after you any time soon, espically if you only stay in ur original african provinces (if u expand into rebel provinces the chances increase)

    The Gauls will be in deep trouble sooner than you and Spain is their least important front so they will not likely come to attack you either.

    Spain will come eventrually, but they are dirt poor as long as you have a decent defense in corduba it shouldn't be a huge problem.

    If you do Katank's blitz strat the Scipiies and Bruttis will be gone in a few years

  22. #82
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by Craterus
    Phoenicia - is that Sidon? I don't have the map with me but I am reffering this from memory of a book about the Phoenicians and the beginning of Naval Trade...
    Yes, Phoenicia is Sidon in the game. The Carthaginians were descendants of the Phoenicians, after all. As ruler of half the known world you should at least rule your own homeland, right?

    As for "forget your navy." I disagree. The power of Carthage *relies* on the sea. You NEED to rule the sea to protect your long shorelines. Again, for Carthage, there is no better naval defense than completely rule the sea. With your very long shoreline you need to sink the Roman fleet or else meet continuous Roman landings. Besides, as Carthage surely have many interests overseas, you should have a strong navy that ensures that your transporting routes between the continents/islands are always open. And when somebody else with a navy piss you off after the Romans are finished? Sink them! Burn them! And block every single one of their ports. It is effective for me in intimidating the AI, as well, since they tend to ceasefire after a continuous total noval victory on my side and prolonged blockade. And with no ships they can do much less in disturbing you later on.

  23. #83
    Member Member Atreides's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhruic
    This is extremely bad advice. With the proper use of navy, you can defend Sicily without ever fighting a land battle.

    The only way the Scipii can get to Sicily, once you take their city, is by boat. They will continually load up their armies on a single ship. Sink that ship, and their army goes down with it. This is a much better approach than constantly fighting land battles.

    Bh
    Worth trying BUT. The Spanish, Nubians, 4 Roman factions and the Gaul also will assault your navel.

    I do not influence those battles. While i do with normal combat (which make a huge difference).

    Your exactly not taking that long to defend Sicily. So why bother with boats?

    Anyway. Thanks for the supplemental. In Holland we have a saying: there are more roads that lead to Rome. I think that this is always true especially here

  24. #84

    Default Re: Carthage

    With the 1.2 patch, very few of those factions make ships. I had no trouble at all maintaining naval superiority. I had 3 main fleets, with a couple transport fleets. No one landed anywhere I didn't want them to.

    And your "enemies" list is a little misleading. The Numidians can easily be brought on board, as long as you give them another enemy to fight (the Spanish work well). And if you get the Spanish fighting the Numidians, you can make peace with them as well. The SPQR isn't a threat. The Brutii won't come your direction unless you attack them directly. The Julii focus most of their army northward. So the only factions you really fight are the Gaul and Scipii. The Gauls are pathetically easy to fight off, so nothing to worry about there. And if you take the Scipii city on Sicily, they are down to one city, and aren't much of a threat.

    Bh

  25. #85

    Default Re: Carthage

    thats a good plan, don't let the Scipii expand.. they wont head north or west and if you sink their ships they can't go south..

  26. #86
    Member Member Atreides's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhruic
    With the 1.2 patch, very few of those factions make ships. I had no trouble at all maintaining naval superiority. I had 3 main fleets, with a couple transport fleets. No one landed anywhere I didn't want them to.

    And your "enemies" list is a little misleading. The Numidians can easily be brought on board, as long as you give them another enemy to fight (the Spanish work well). And if you get the Spanish fighting the Numidians, you can make peace with them as well. The SPQR isn't a threat. The Brutii won't come your direction unless you attack them directly. The Julii focus most of their army northward. So the only factions you really fight are the Gaul and Scipii. The Gauls are pathetically easy to fight off, so nothing to worry about there. And if you take the Scipii city on Sicily, they are down to one city, and aren't much of a threat.

    Bh
    Interesting. I played this campagain manly with patch 1.1. But the fleet issue is IMO a flavour/style you like/dislike.

    How did you let the Numidians fight against the Spanish???

    Regading the roman Factions:
    The Brutti did assault me on Sicily....
    The Julli did nothing but attack me on Sardine (the not even attack the [damned] Guals)
    SPQR assault me with vessels. And they also Bribed Cordoba away (when my army marched to an Spanish town).

    But I agree with you that you it is not SURE you have to fight all of them.
    Last edited by frogbeastegg; 03-30-2005 at 10:12. Reason: swearing

  27. #87

    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by Atreides
    The Julli did nothing but attack me on Sardine (the not even attack the [damned] Guals)
    The AI Julii never seem to attack the Gaul. They go immediately to Spain. Or wait around in Northern Italy.

  28. #88

    Lightbulb Re: Carthage

    i found carthage quite easy i abandoned 2 towns .i waited about 10 -15 turns buliding armys and better men.then went with 4 full armys on rome i attacked all four factions in rome beacuse if u attack them all at differnt times they help eachother if u attack all four at once they find it hard to help eachother i took the hole of rome then conentrate.on greece and numdia beacuse they are good but nothing comparing to rome.maek sure u catch rome before they get into am or u will get beat quite easily
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  29. #89

    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by littlegannon
    maek sure u catch rome before they get into am or u will get beat quite easily
    I have to disagree here.. I'm facing the Romans well into AM, they must have had the reforms a while because they've got armies full of Legionary Cohort, but I've yet to be beaten by them yet.

    As the game says, (when you are outnumbered 1480 to 20)
    "Defeat is almost certain. Only a military genius could win this battle."
    Enter military genius - me.

  30. #90

    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by Craterus
    I have to disagree here.. I'm facing the Romans well into AM, they must have had the reforms a while because they've got armies full of Legionary Cohort, but I've yet to be beaten by them yet.

    As the game says, (when you are outnumbered 1480 to 20)
    "Defeat is almost certain. Only a military genius could win this battle."
    Enter military genius - me.
    no creatus u are mistaken u are not a miltiary genuis i am
    "Do you have blacks, too?" —to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001
    "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
    —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
    "I want you to know. Karyn is with us. A West Texas girl, just like me."
    —Nashville, Tenn., May 27, 2004

    how stupid george bush is !

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