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Thread: The Greek Cities

  1. #61
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Good to see you Ilia! Start soon! I've already started--from the ultimate in mobility to the ultimate in static warfare! What a change :-D It's going to take me some time to get used to not having any more HA to play around with. And hoplite-hoplite battles are just plain tiring. *yawn*

    I've gone on Turn 1, and already Messana has a Greek army on its doorstep, while Corinth has been besieged. I'm not attacking the Scipii, because I'm waiting for them to attack. Hoplite defensive square works wonders at this point in time in the game :-D Meanwhile I'm building up every city except Sparta with basic hoplite facilities, Pergamum will launch attacks on the rebels once it gets its first standard hoplite unit...

    Anyone know what to do with Rhodes' army? I'm currently envisioning its army (when built up) heading for Kydonia-Cyrene-Leptis Magna-Thapsus-Carthage, with my Rhodes navy... but I keep getting this nagging feeling it's supposed to be used for more than that.

    Was even thinking of a surprise attack on Egypt, but that's just me being insane--Hoplites? against archers and archers? Heh.
    Last edited by pezhetairoi; 05-12-2005 at 00:57.


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  2. #62

    Default Too Darned Weird To Comprehend

    Umm...this is way too weird and I was wondering if anyone has ever seen it before. I'm playing my third campaign with the 1.2 patch, this time as the Greek Cities. I press "End Turn" in the winter of 248 BC and the Brutii settlement of Segestica -- which they had left ungarrisoned -- automatically gets transferred to my faction, as if the Greek inhabitants have thrown a rebellion without any encouragement from myself. No bribing or anything -- in fact, I haven't even sent a boat, a diplomat or a spy to that region of the map.

    Not only do I inherit this free settlement, but it also comes stock with its own small army -- specifically six full militia hoplite platoons and six full peasant platoons, all with an Experience of 3, Gold Shield Armor Upgrades, and Silver weapons upgrades; I'm not even able to provide these same upgrades to new units at my other settlements at this point in the game.

    I have gone back a few turns to make sure I didn't inadvertantly accept a proferred territory in exchange for trade rights or something ridiculous like that, and nothing like that has apparently happened. Yet it consistently gives me Segestica on the same year.

    Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but this is simply too weird. Does anyone know what's going on here?

  3. #63
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too Darned Weird To Comprehend

    I think I may. It seems that each settlement has a 'founder' line in the descr_strat file. It might have something to do with that, though it's only a hunch. Perhaps you want to see if Segestica's founder is the Greek Cities. If it is, then it probably means there's a time trigger built in somewhere into the game where an ungarrisoned settlement owned by someone else will revert to the founder at a certain date. Sort of like Macedonia founding Cyrene. If it has nothing to do with that, then I can't help you. Meanwhile, enjoy your new units, with their nice upgrades they will be very useful for you.


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  4. #64
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    [QUOTE=pezhetairoi]"Anyone know what to do with Rhodes' army? I'm currently envisioning its army (when built up) heading for Kydonia-Cyrene-Leptis Magna-Thapsus-Carthage, with my Rhodes navy... but I keep getting this nagging feeling it's supposed to be used for more than that. "
    Maybe to use it against Pontus and Selucid Empire?
    Think I will join you tommorow.By the way what are your campaign settings ( difficulty and unit scale)?

  5. #65
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    I'm playing hard huge, as is my usual practice... just to get the hang of it... are you on vh?

    I came to your conclusion this morning in the middle of a history lecture, so i'm shifting Rhodes' army to join the one in Pergamum once I reinforce it with another unit or two of militia hoplites. I'm going to capture all the rebels in Asia, then cross to Byzantium.


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  6. #66

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    How about you conquer half of Asia Minor and then send your Pergamum army up to Getae, take that and then meet up with an Aegean army at Tylis, the Aegean army will have just taken Byzantium. And you should own all of Aegean lands. That would be my plan, don't know if it would work well.

    I'm starting this campaign tonight or tomorrow night.

  7. #67
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Hey, Craterus what will be your settings for this campaign:
    difficulty/unit scale.

  8. #68

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    M/M Large probably

    Maybe h/m

  9. #69
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    I'm planning on my usual war on all fronts, the Sparta army destroys Macedonia while my Asia Minor army remains in or near Asia Minor... for me I wouldn't send the AM army so far north, leaving Pergamum etc open for Pontus (I don't expect the Seleucids to be attacking yet). I'll take Byzantium, and retreat back to Asia Minor, leaving it as bait for Thrace to retake so that my Aegean army can defeat their armies in the field. Then their settlements will be easy. I want to lure them out of the towns where my hoplites aren't quite so good.

    Took Corinth and Messana yesterday in Turn 3, the Scipii are already defanged since they lost half their family members and half their cities but Carthage seems to have some designs on Syracuse so once I turn Sicily white and red (the colours of my Singapore flag! ^_^) I'll turn on the Brutii, so they won't do anything to my Aegean posessions.

    Asia Minor army is now merging en route to Nicomedia. The last time I tried to take it with just 2 MH and my pergamum general their 1 MH and 1 Thracian mercs completely took them apart in the confusion of battle, so I shall go at them with many many more MH this time. And 1 hoplite unit, too. AND merc hops.

    I'm developing Sparta into an AHop factory, and Thermon will have facilities for building basic hoplites before I turn it into an archer factory. Larissa has stables, I know, so I'll turn it into a Greek Cavalry production city. And there! A triumvirate of soldier cities. I have decided that Rhodes will just gear up to invade Kydonia later, with 2 hoplites and 3 biremes. Hopefully I can get a MOTH there.

    I've been learning a lot with Greece, it's a very different experience from the German phalanxes, because they are currently weaker. I was fighting a sally battle at Messana, with the two late aforementioned Scipii family members, and they just broke through my four-ranks-deep hoplites and routed them with a charge. Alright, one of them was the faction heir, fine, but my German phalanxes, when I had played them, were capable of withstanding two general units on one without breaking, without my general behind them.

    Also, some observations on the general. Greek bodyguards seem crappier than the Roman ones... any truth in that? I tried a one-on-one with the Roman bodyguard, faction heir to faction heir, and mine lost even though we were both charging straight at one another. Was totally disgusted and reloaded the battle.

    Also, my Spartan hoplites, after assaulting the walls of Corinth (mein gott, not a single casualty in engaging the enemy hoplites! Freaky!) and coming down to the ground floor, did not seem to want to go back into phalanx, and also did not want to change their formation from loose back to 'tight' formation. The buttons were just blanked out. Why?
    Last edited by pezhetairoi; 05-13-2005 at 01:18.


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  10. #70
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Greetings!
    I have finally started Greek Cities campaign on VH/M , huge unit scale.
    1 turn: I attack and defeat Scipii near Messana ( killing their both family members), some enemies managed to retreat;
    I besiege Corinth and Larrissa and Messana;
    In the several next turns I took those cities bribed nearby carphaginians and kill several Scipii and Brutii armies landed on Sicily;
    When I came to Appolonia I found out that it is still rebel (Brutii instead of taking it it sent their troops to Sicily!)
    Also I had besieged Athens.
    Now when Selucids are at war with Egypt I plan to take Halicarnassus(don't remember the right spelling of this name) and their province in Asia Minor;
    Also I besieged Tarentium with my family leader spartans 1 unit of hoplite and 1 unit of cretan archers.

  11. #71
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Hi friends,

    I see you could not wait any longer. All right, I try to join you asap.

    I have one suggestion:
    1. Should we open a new thread. I fear we are spamming this one!
    2. Why not play with the same setup. I like hard/hard/large best.
    3. Maybe everybody can explain his innitial plan?

  12. #72
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Hi friend.
    1. About new thread - maybe we can do one in colluseum?(or the Entrance Hall);
    2. I prefer VH/M , because I don't like enemy's soldiers be stronger than mine just because of difficulty level, huge unit scale is just interesting in strategic option;
    3. I have already smashed macedonians and Brutii other romans and selucids are to follow them.

  13. #73
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by pezhetairoi
    Also, some observations on the general. Greek bodyguards seem crappier than the Roman ones... any truth in that? I tried a one-on-one with the Roman bodyguard, faction heir to faction heir, and mine lost even though we were both charging straight at one another. Was totally disgusted and reloaded the battle.
    your impression isn't wrong. I daresay Greek (Macedonian, Thracian etc.) general bodyguards are the weakest in the game because of their stats: unimproved ones have 12 attack and 9 charge (just as Romans), but only 10 defence compared to the Romans' 14. Barbarian ones go at 13-9-13, I think. This is quite annoying since decent general's cavalry would be particularly useful to the Greeks with respecct to their otherwise crappy cavalry --- family members still are the best, but they tend to be unreliable. I once lost a general in a flank charge into a decimated unit of principes involved in a heavy fight with two hoplite units.... just use them way more careful than you would other gens.

    a complete stat list of all units (also improved and unimproved gens) is accessible: http://www.totalwar.co.kr/rome/
    Last edited by Deus ret.; 05-13-2005 at 19:40.
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  14. #74

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    JUst to let you all know, I haven't started a Greek campaign because I thought I'd play on my strengths a bit. Cavalry. Instead of a phalanx/crap cav faction (Greeks), I've gone for a phalanx-good cav faction. Yes, that's right. MACEDON!!!

    It was a hard choice between Spartans and Companions, but I concluded to go for the decent cavalry option, balance it out a bit. Royal Pikemen are almost as good as Spartans anyways.

  15. #75
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Well some things about my plan:
    1. Leave Thrace to be in Campus Getae as my protectorate ( to protect me from Skythia;
    2. Conquer Italy and Asia Minor ( now I am struggling there against Pontic armies);
    3. To achive total dominance on Balkans.

  16. #76

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Greeks won't do very well against Scythian HA's at all.I'd try to leave a good bit of space between you and them.

    But then again, I've never battled against Scythian AI.

  17. #77
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Abut Skythia I have one idea:
    I think you remember city with amazons which is situated North from Skythia I wish to conquer it , because it have temple of Aphrodite , and maybe it would be possible to train them there while playing for Greeks.

  18. #78

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Train what there? I found the Amazon area to be very buggy, but I conquered it. While I was assaulting the city, a grey cloud kept covering the screen. I lost a good amount of men because of that.

  19. #79
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Train amazons.

  20. #80
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    How do you train Amazons?

    Have just conquered Themiskyra in my Scythian campaign, and chariots would be a cool break off from those HAs.
    Runes for good luck:

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  21. #81
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Heh, it just my assumption that you can train amazons the rebel town which is guarded by them , if you are playing the greeks ( because there is temple of Aphrodite , so maybe there is a special case like with spartans).

  22. #82

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    That would be cool. So you can train Spartans up there too?? It's a shame it's so out of the way.

  23. #83
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Oh s#%t NO - you can't train spartans there , I just meant that they can also trained only in some SPECIAL place/city , I just wondered if there is possible to train amazons.

  24. #84
    Lesbian Rebel Member Mikeus Caesar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Nah, not possible to train amazons. Pain in the arse to fight against though. Once i had finished conquering the steppes, i got all my leftover mercenaries and a few hoplites, and made a 'discovery channel team', to go exploring. it took 15 god damn years to get there!! and along the way we got ambushed by some chariots, and they were such a pain in the butt in the open field. They just kept running away from my peltast cavalry. Fortunately, i finally got them, but not without losses.

    And as for training Spartans, i think it's only possible to train them in Sparta and Syracuse.
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  25. #85
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    A-a-aaaaaa I KNOW WHERE IS POSSIBLE TO TRAIN SPARTANS!!!!!
    It was just my own guess about amazons , maybe if there is Pantheon of Aphrodite present in that city it would allow to train amazons ?
    I mentioned spartans just because they can be trained in two places only , I thougth amazons are the same case.

  26. #86

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    It has really slow growth, so it may take a while to get yourself to Pantheon (sp?) level.

  27. #87
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Well somethings about my campaign:
    1. Romans are gone , followed by Pontus;
    2. I except soon to be at war with whole Asia , and I am already at war with Dacians , Thrace , Gauls , Selucids.

  28. #88
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    I'm into Turn 14 now, lots of stuff happened and I'm now in control of all Sicily, Most of Greece, and all western Asia Minor. 17 provinces and one more in the bag next turn, how's that eh? Okay, a synopsis of what's happened so far. Bear with me, I hope I don't sound too longwinded... :-D

    Turn 1, I put my army into the Scipii red zone hoping to lure out both garrison and field army to attack me so my hoplites can fight defensive (their strongest). Greek army moves for Corinth, Thermon army makes its way to reinforce with its Cretan archers. Both Rhodes and Pergamum army build up.

    Turn 2, the Scipii attack, but only with 3 hastati, and they put their 2 factioners in another army meant for Lilybaeum, out of the battle. Very disappointed, but easily won. I besiege Messana. Rhodes army crosses to Halicarnassus en route north, Pergamum builds up some more. Asia Minor diplomat becomes busy looking for trade.

    Turn 3, the Scipii Lilybaeum army comes back to hit me with the Scipii garrison. Just what I wanted, even though they had archers and 2 velites. I just took their arrows until velites, hastati and household members all routed smashing against my spear circle, then my cavalry hunted down their archers. Messana taken, the Scipii erased from Sicily. At this time Carthage moves into Messana territory so I have to quickly retrain all my troops and wait. Meanwhile, Thermon army has joined Spartan army and Corinth is stormed. Reinforcements arriving on the Macedonian side are also slaughtered. Did you know how amazingly effective four units of hoplites stacked in the same area, with one of them being Spartans, can be? It was a solid meatgrinder--2 units of levy pikemen charged right into them, and it was like a machinegun. They died so fast they didn't even have time to rout.

    Turn 4, this is the greatest battle I've ever fought, possibly the greatest victory too. But I'm sure in terms of casualties you'll say I suck. Carthage besieges Messana as expected, with their grand army, and I sally. It was close, because I lured them to the gates and left my hoplites all bunched up at the gates to defend it against attacks from all sides. It was a battle of attrition, but I eventually won. I'll let the stats speak for themselves..

    Dionysios of Sparta--Deployed 1271, Killed 855, Left 287
    Hanno--Deployed 1117, Killed 1105, Left 11

    I hate elephants. :-(

    Turn 5, The Scipii land one pathetic hastati unit to retake Messana, I simply trash them, but because my cavalry were late in reinforcement I couldn't chase them down and they return to the ship. Athens is assaulted by my combined army in Greece, but carelessly I left Antigonos to die. Thankfully, though, at this time I have a new factioner in Sparta, and I bring him up to Athens to join the army. Asia Minor army has also been busy, and now it assaults Nicomedia, winning a rather (duh) sort of one-sided victory.

    Turn 6: No battles, thankfully, but my bribing of Macedonian armies begins, beginning with 2 light lancers for 185 d. A new faction member that I choose to deploy in Messana, to join my faction heir's army.

    Turn 7, Lilybaeum and Larissa are besieged. A Thracian army lands near Nicomedia with their faction leader, so I move my Asian army into their red zone and wait for them to attack.

    Turn 8, They DON'T attack. So I attack them, and completely destroy them. Thrace has been very seriously set back by this defeat. *is very proud of self* I have buily up a small army now to attack Kydonia in Rhodes, and now I send this to attack it via ship. Larissa is stormed. Light Lancers are not exactly the weapon to use against Spartan hoplites. Oh well. Diplomat in Asia minor is very busy bribing rebel armies, who are all Greek in origin, so I'm getting 5 and 6 units of hoplites/cretans/rhodians every turn or so for about the cost of two units. Turn 8 was a very busy turn, Lilybaeum was also stormed, and since its garrison was only one faction member and one skirmisher, I just used my general's cavalries and smashed them.

    Turn 9: More bribing, Greece also has a rebel army bribed and sent to join the Spartan army. The pathetic 33 hastati unit is landed on Sicily again, and it is ignored. Meanwhile, a Sicilian navy has been built up and it makes sure the Scipii have no place to return to. I spot another one-ship transport fleet carrying the remaining Scipii family members and a 7 unit army nearby that is heading to Carthage.

    Turn 10: That irritating Scipii unit is deleted from the map by one hoplite unit in search of experience. The 3-bireme starter fleet I had at the start, that was sent west towards Sicily, is caught in a storm but only some men were lost, easily retrained. Asia Minor army becomes the first full stack after it combines with all the rebel bribed armies, and it besieges Sardis. The Sicilian fleet drives the big Scipii army fleet further away from Sicily, just in case.

    Turn 11: Spartan army at this time has been moving towards Apollonia, which has been seen to be Brutii, and which has also been seen to have the bulk of the Brutii military strength in it. Marching towards it through the mountains, the Brutii summon a whole bunch of armies to block the Spartans' path at the same time as my army runs out of turns. New factioner is deployed to Larissa and quickly gallops off to join Spartan army. The rebel army at Halicarnassus (another 6-7 units' worth) is bribed for 1255d, and the units left over from the forming of the full stack at Sardis move south to reinforce. The Kydonia army is too strong for my 3 Militia Hoplites to beat (especially since it comprises 2 Cretan archers) so it is bribed instead. Kydonia is assaulted with just the Cretan archers, and they win without losing a single man. Go Cretans! Sicilian army prepares to cross to Capua to destroy the Scipii faction, while Sardis is stormed. The general's cavalry caused some trouble to my militia hoplites, but not -too- much trouble, especially after my hoplites made it through the breach in the wall to take them in the rear.

    Turn 12: Another idiotic, suicidal Scipii family member lands ALONE at Messana (what is WRONG with the AI?), and it is crushed by my generals (3 by now). After this, the Sicilian army crosses to Capua, arriving off the coast just in time to run out of turns. Gah. Halicarnassus is stormed, Cyrene is besieged by the Kydonia army, which has crossed the Mediterranean, but to my horror and eternal shame I forgot to pack along the diplomat to bribe and establish diplomatic ties in Africa, so the fleet goes back to fetch him. Spartan army hits all the armies, but because of its position, they all retreat -into- Apollonia. Damn. Now they have 13 units behind those walls. At least, I manage to catch one family member who retreated away from the city, and he is, needless to say, squished. I mean, that's the only fate that can happen to a 40-horse unit that charges into a Spartan hoplite unit at full strength. Apollonia's gates have been opened (miracle!) by my spy who has been waiting in there for some time. So I storm it anyway, stacking all my hoplite units into one fearsome spear forest one on top of them other, and sending them through the gate. Another battle of attrition like the one against the Carthaginians at Messana, but this time losses are much less (600 to 1600) and the Brutii are crushed. After this defeat they have only 2 family members and 8 units left in their remaining 2 provinces (they didn't take Salona.) Sadly, though, I lost another factioner in the fight. Sigh. I am too careless with my general's cavalry, and they are too crappy.

    Turn 13, the BIG Scipii army I was telling you about? DAMN! They somehow evaded my fleets and landed at Messana. I hate Roman guts. Anyway, they foolishly don't besiege Messana, so I ignore them. After all, my Sicilian army has just besieged Capua and next turn they will be dead since Capua only has 2 units in it, and there is only one family member outside the city as reinforcements. Cyrene is stormed. Two Armoured Hoplites from Sparta start moving west to Italy to reinforce the Sicilian army, and another is started in Syracuse.

    Turn 14: I haven't done anything so far but to commission units and buildings, so hooray. More to come.


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  29. #89

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Just one point, do you really have to stack units on top of each other? It's really annoying (on MP) and I'm sure you can win without doing that. People talk about lack of historical accuracy, well 4+ phalanxes stacked on top of each other (phalanxes were already tightly packed, you couldn't have fit any more men in there if you tried).

  30. #90
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Yes, otherwise the enemy cav often crashes through. Multistacking with 2 lines thick allows for optimal frontage/combat power as all spears are lowered. Even militia hops are good when packed like that.

    Historical accuracy is out the door. This is just effective as a bit of an exploit like corner camping.

    As for amazons, only trainable by rebels with a blacksmith. You can easily modify all factions to be able to build them there though as there is already an amazon resource coded in.

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