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  1. #31

    Default Re: Armenia

    Oh, ok. I assumed you meant "abandon" in the give away/revolt sense. That's pretty much what I do as well. Well, I "abandon" my cities in every game, as the AI won't make early attacks, and rebel armies won't attack cities.

    Yes, Parthia will attack Armenia, I tend to assume people will take out Parthia early, as I usually do. I like having my back to a wall, and the edge of the map is the best "wall" I can find.

    Bh

  2. #32
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    True. Even if it could be somewhat more golden instead of just dusty. If you wait too long to take them out (and they will get a nice boost if you practically surrender your starting cities which they will attack sooner or later), they will get considerably more nasty later on. HA's are annoying, but Persian cav and catas together will give you a hard time.
    An advantage may be that the Eggy will have somewhat more decent opposition to deal with before attacking you, though.
    Does anyone know how to counter these ****ing chariots of the SC's or Pontus?? They really wipe the floor with my cav.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    For chariot fighting, make sure your cav don't contact them. The heavily armoured stuff will melt like hot butter also due to the AP attack of the chariots.

    Pepper them with HAs from afar. Also be sure to try to get some skirmishers/slingers to attack them. The former get a nice attack bonus against em while the latter is very accurate and has a low angle of fire, optimal for picking off chariots. Flaming ammo for archers are also good for making em run amok.

    One or two chariots don't consist a significant threat. If there are more, focus fire of the center ones. This makes them run amok. It's amazing what amok chariots do to other chariots. This makes for chain rout many times as their dealy chariots turn against each other.

  4. #34
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    I faced chariots once when Sardis garrison sallied against me on the last turn. They had 7 units of pikemen and 6 units of scythed chariots, but it was no fun at all because they kept charging out of one gate, and you can imagine what 13 units, half of then SCYTHED chariots, and 2 generals' cavalry can do jammed in one chokepoint, while my onagers have taken out the machinegun towers and my 6 units of HA and 3 units of noble archers have formed a neat semicircle from the wall on the left of the gate to the wall on the right, shooting at that traffic jam from all sides. In short, absolutely no fun before. I would relish the chance to meet scythed chariots in open battle as Scythia or Armenia, but too bad, SC are down to Hatra and they are no longer any threat. So.


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  5. #35
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Thumbs down Re: Armenia

    Quote Originally Posted by pezhetairoi
    I would relish the chance to meet scythed chariots in open battle as Scythia or Armenia
    well, play as Armenia then. have a force of some horse archers and some heavier cav (generals, catas, sarmatians) with which you easily beat armies 4 times as numerous as you. watch them all be ground into the dust even if you attack those %$§&#-chariots from the flanks or rear.
    then rethink. gather as much of your crappy infantry as you have (that is, before heavy spearmen -- they totally change the situation) and place them in front of some unmounted ranged attackers...in short, abandon the primary strength of your faction and watch the SCs grind your infantry into the dust as they turn and run amok under the fire. who cares, EI is easily replaced (and somehow I can't help feeling a certain pleasure in watching them die...even if they're my own ).
    then fight on gaily until you encounter the eggy's family chariots which have 5 hp each... honestly, fighting chariots is not really funny with a cav army. even just two of them can pose a threat to a stronger army because they outrun your melee cav and succumb to horse archer fire painfully slow.
    Last edited by Deus ret.; 06-17-2005 at 13:51.
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  6. #36
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    But still, I'd make a bad general if I shied away from such conflicts :-D I'm pretty sure the HA can do nasty things. And I do fight with some infantry support, so... yum. It will be fun.


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  7. #37

    Default Re: Armenia

    so far i own 11 provinces by 238 i am beating egypt and have surrounded T.S.E pontus have decided to attack me at kotais but i dont ahve an army near by i want to attack them so i have some cataphract arhcers ready to weaken them before i get my main army in.parthia have just campus sakae and they have a navy that is annoying me i have attacked them and they are sunk now.i will write again wen i have more info on this campaign!!
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  8. #38

    Default Re: Armenia

    So he returns... I haven't seen you around the Guides for a while, Littlegannon.

    Please use SpellCheck, your posts are difficult to read.

    Good Luck with your Armenian campaign, nonetheless!

  9. #39
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Yeap, they say Armenia is the most difficult campaign... I can believe that. Welcome back, though, lil'gannon! Y'know, talking about family chariots, when we bribe generals we ought to get their bodyguard units too. E.g. if I bribe a Briton while my family members are cavalry his should be chariotry, etc. No reason why he'd suddenly give up his chariots to ride on unfamiliar horses just because he's now under a new banner.


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  10. #40
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Quote Originally Posted by pezhetairoi
    Yeap, they say Armenia is the most difficult campaign... I can believe that.
    But Armenia got those dreadfull cataphract archers, in my opinion the best unit in the game. Also legions and phalanxes.

    So what`s so difficult? Haven`t tried `em out yet.
    Runes for good luck:

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  11. #41
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Difficult usually means gamestart... No campaign in RTW is really difficult once you establish yourself. :-D Especially for Armenia, what with their late game troop array which are *wow*. I love CAs.


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  12. #42

    Default Re: Armenia

    CA's are almost as good as Cataphracts (melee) and they can fire missiles. They're an ultimate unit. And at least they're historically accurate, I think.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    That's what the melee stats seem to indicate. However, note that they don't have an armour piercing attack. This means that they will get destroyed by real lancer cataphracts in melee.

    However, they are great for picking off medium and light cav chasing them though.

  14. #44
    Deranged Rock Ape Member Zakor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Rusher
    One thing I have to say about Armenia is ALWAYS ATTACK PONTUS FIRST. You aren't strong enough to take anyone else on yet. Try to maintain a steady peace with Parthia.

    If you need guidance into what units to train, go here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=640574
    I have had good luck with going down and immediately attacking HATRA. It seems that consistently, right after that, the Selucids offer peace...

  15. #45
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    you will have won little with that. Maybe you expanded your territory slightly but your strategic position is at least as bad as before. I strongly suggest taking out the Southern Parthians ASAP, even if their provinces are rather poor and will be next to useless in the later stages of the game. At the beginning, though, they have the unbeatable advantage of being very secure strategically, so that you can concentrate your scarce army resources further West --- you will need them against the other factions.
    Only taking Hatra leaves you with three even more extended flanks. If you like a challenge, use the opportunity, but you might find yourself unable to defend all fronts at once. In my experience, neither of your neighbours (except maybe for the Scythians, at least if you block the passes) will leave you alone for a long time, and it's better to have fewer if one attacks.
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  16. #46
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Heading east to sneak attack Arsakia is ideal. This will cripple them.

    Use small stacks and forts to block movement for the large parthian army.

    Once you take Susa also, Parthia is pretty much dead.

    Bribe the cataphracts as soon as they are in a captain led stack.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Armenia

    compare to Numidia, Armenia is a piece of cake. really because Egypt attacks Siwa like at the 2nd turn and Carthage is right next to the capital and all those crappy african provinces produce nothing but sand and squalors...talk about poverty.

  18. #48
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Abandoning Siwa and pulling your forces west will give you a boost vs. your enemies there. With Carthage's African provinces, taking on the Romans is much more easy. So leave those crappy desert provinces alone and go for the bigger stuff, using plenty of your remarkable cav.
    Gradually conquer Spain from Tingi and net some nice rich provinces.
    Capturing Lilybaeum before the Romans will cripple the Scipii nicely. Trash 'em out of Sicily and earn even more money.

    Admittedly, it's hard but so is Armenia. Forget your infantry; CAs only come after the toughest battle (against Parthia) is over; and they as well as your HAs are far from being invincible in the region. A good late-game line-up won't help you in the struggle for its prerequisitions. Until you conquer either Antioch or a good portion of Asia Minor (of which I'm not a fan) your position is quite precarious, troop-wise as well as economically. CAs are superb but also expensive.
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  19. #49
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Numidia is better off sneak attacking Thebes, works every time.

    As for Armenia, they are quite a bit easier than Numidia as you don't go into the red immediately.

    Position is certainly less secure than the Romans etc. but is really not bad.

    Just watch for Parthia's 2 beastly cataphracts and you'll be fine.

  20. #50
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    ...you don't go into the red immediately, but close to that. I've tried out the opening 10 turns with Armenia and found it rather challenging, until you annihilate Pontus. For one, Armenia is easier than Numidia, which starts out with those worthless javelinmen that can't fight in melee for nuts and can't run away from enemies, and who run out of javelins all too fast.

    Armenia doesn't start out with cataphractoi, does it?


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  21. #51
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    yes, they do. just one, though, compared to the Parthians' two. Which makes an early war against them (of which I am an advocate) really tough if you don't wait until they split their army....or they simply don't do it.

    An elimination of Pontus towards the mid-game will still see them fielding tons of their crappy 1st and 2nd level infantry, maybe with some Pontic heavy cav and chariots at the worst, whereas the Parthians will still have their initial annoying HAs and later come up with Persian cav and the like if you don't contain (or better: crush) them early on. Their area also has the advantage of being strategically very secure.
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  22. #52
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Not particularly; Arsakia is weak to unannounced attacks from Hatra, which is a good city to take for Armenia (and it has done so in my Brutii campaign), and Susa is also vulnerable since Parthia has the habit of drawing off lots of their troops to attack Dumatha or Palmyra. But yes, Pontus has the annoying EI habit. I'm going to change them to comfortable caesar to make them do better than that.


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  23. #53
    Legendary Member Taurus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Hi all,
    As my Armenian campaign rages on (very well I might add) I just thought I would post some tips/hints for anybody wishing to start a campaign as them.

    *Note: that this is just my strategy and although it worked for me it doesn't mean it will work for everybody. Thanks.

    I started off as Armenia because I though that their troop selection was very interesting and I had yet to play a campaign with proper cavalry archers.
    Anyway, I began the campaign and immidietly took out Pontus within about 4 turns, (I used the starting army and took all available troops out of Artaxarta and Kotais to form two seperate invading forces.)

    Following the successful conquest of Pontus which ended in there complete extinction as a faction I moved on to take Pergamum (spelling?) from the Greeks. I had also allied with Egypt by this time and Thrace as well. The Seleucids disagreed to my proposal so I readied my armies for the iminent invasion.

    I sent a diplomat over to the Greek mainland to see that Macedon had pushed the Greeks from their homeland and were now conquering my ally, Thrace. I decided to leave my friend stranded and took Rhodes instead which eliminated the Greeks from the equation. I also took Halicarnassuss from the rebels in quick succession.

    The Seleucids by this time decided to make the first move and invaded Mazaka and Ancrya and were also heading for Pergamum. I mustered all my northern armies and repelled the invasion and following this took the weakened city of Tarsus. I belived that Antioch was up for grabs also so I took that. After stabilising all of modern Turkey I turned my attention south towards Egypt and was making good progress. I mustered my amphibous invasion forces for the attack on the Nile Delta cities and this is as far as my campaign has got so far.

    Hope this helps,
    Thanks,
    - Vip3r Warrior

  24. #54
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Maybe I should try the Pontic route, sounds interesting.

    However, neutralizing Parthia early would kill a dangerous rival and then you can do a clockwise sweep of Seleucids and Egyptians who are best destined to die ASAP.

    Pontus doesn't seem much of a problem. A lone fort will suffice to seal off the passes and that's provided you don't like getting cheap heroic victories with HAs vs. a EI horde.

  25. #55
    Senior member Senior Member Dutch_guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    well the pontic route is easier than the Parthian route ( due to their lack of tanks ) , however I find it unpractical since you know you're going to get backstabbed by the Parthians , sometimes as early as turn 2.
    And losing your 2 major citys while campaigning in Pontus isn't a good thing, and that is not helped by the fact that you will -definitely in the early game - not be able to field multible army's, at least in my experience

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  26. #56
    Legendary Member Taurus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Thanks for the feedback guys, but what you say about Parthia stabbing me in the back still hasn't happened yet and I am quite a way through my campaign. I must be lucky.

    Thanks,
    - Vip3r Warrior

  27. #57
    Senior member Senior Member Dutch_guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    In my games they usually go right for me, never accepting aliances , teaming up agaisnt me even with the SE and stuff like that.

    Well it's good to hear they haven't done that in your campaign ( yet ) - always beware the tretcherous Partians though
    However since you're far in your camp. you should think about getting rid of them yourself, you know ; the best defence is attacking ( or something like that ;) )

    good luck in your campaign

    I'm an athiest. I get offended everytime I see a cold, empty room. - MRD


  28. #58
    Legendary Member Taurus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Thanks Dutch guy
    Once I have finished dealing with Egypt I will definatly set myself on destroying Parthia.

    you know ; the best defence is attacking ( or something like that ;) )
    The best defence is a good offence,

    Once again, thanks

  29. #59
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Vip3r,
    I had this one with pez already. He did it the way you did, with a quick annihilation of Pontus and a move into the more profitable regions of Asia Minor, essentially taking over their role. The approach is not bad, although it has some downsides.

    First, Pontus fields an EI-heavy army even in the mid-game. This makes them much more easy to beat than the Parthians whose cavalry is not really inferior to yours; in addition, your home provinces remain defensible during your war with the Parthians. Which will be tough but you'll be better off afterwards. Just keep a general and a few HAs back to counter Pontus. Remember, your goal is not a quick victory, it is annihilation of the enemy, even if it takes a couple of battles against the same army.
    To defend against HAs properly (let alone the two Parthian menaces, the catas) you need -- either more HAs, decent cav or foot archers. None of which are at your disposal in the beginning.

    Secondly, the strike against Pontus only works if Egypt occupies the SE and thus keeps your back free. Admittedly they do most of the time, although in my game the SE were the Eggy's protectorate. Waging war against Pontus at such a point would leave you unprotected on all sides, with your only hope being either the provinces you capture or the AI's retardedness.

    Thirdly, since the Egyptians have to be annihilated asap to secure your existence on the long run, an elimination of Southern Parthia will put you in an excellent stategic position to reach them sooner. The Parthians' catas, if you manage to bribe them, will also be of great help. If you rely on the SE as a buffer instead of taking them out on the way to Egypt, they will be absorbed by the Eggies rather sooner than later who'll be even richer and mightier when you face them. I know some people like a challenge but slaughtering your way through overpowered Eggy stacks is not really fun. Especially if they mass produce their 4th level units, in which case it's likely that you will get slaughtered. In my game, I was happy since they fielded their first two Pharaonic bowmen only when I attacked their final city, Thebes.

    Taking out Pontus later is a cakewalk. You have the land, you have the money.
    Last edited by Deus ret.; 07-10-2005 at 21:30.
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  30. #60
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Here's pez, issuing a call to all RTW players... Who wants to do an Armenia live campaign discussion on this thread like happened on the Scythia thread so long ago? I'm planning to start on Armenia in a week or two after I finish my 50 provinces of Macedon, and I figure a live play commentary would be very useful as an addition to this guide... Franc? Ilia?


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