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Thread: Armenia

  1. #91
    Elephant Master Member Conqueror's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Hey Craterus, I'm playing a MM Armenian campaign too

    I'm on to 175 BC already and my great Armenian empire runs from Greece almost to India. I own Asia Minor, most land from the Caspian to the Persian Gulf and the eastern med islands and most of Greece. Maccies are camped in Corinth and I'm trying to get them to accept protectorateship, but the bastards won't give up even if I offer all of Greece, their islands, most of my treasury (I got ~200,000, was over 300,000 at best) and 20,000+ tribute per turn for 50 turns! I literally saved them from being annihilated by the Brutii, but they won't play nice and be a good little buffer state for me

    The start of the game was easy, taking rebel cities in the first few turns isn't too hard when you buy some mercenaries and beat the rebels when they sally out. Pontus is a real pushover since they just love to mass Eastern Infantry. Taking Asia Minor put me in war with Greeks (annihilated by other factions very soon) and Ptolemies (major PITA. They attacked me and kept sending more and more units untill I took all of their Asia Minor provinces + Cyprus). Sarmatians were hanging around near my homelands looking like they were up to something stupid, but I kept enough troops near border that they never dared to attack me.

    The biggest conflict in MM is with Seleucids. They start huge and with lots of resources. Not to mention that they made alliance with Ptolemies and it's lasted up to this day. They still have the Middle East from Antioch to Seleukia (because I let them have it), and two provinces in the far east that are surrounded from all sides now. It's been extremely slow progress conquering all their eastern lands. This is because distance to capital penalties get HUGE (and I'm not moving my capital) and because I play with self-imposed honor rules to not recruit units other than peasants untill a settlement is properly converted to my faction.

    I made alliance with Parthians and they haven't backstabbed me yet. They haven't attacked Seleucids at all, even after their eastern provinces became isolated. They've been at wars with Sarmatians. Speaking of whom, are now pushed back by the immensely powerful Brutii. Those greenie romans have like a million man army.

    As I mentioned earlier, I stepped in to save the Maccies from Brutes. That put me in war with Ptolemies, Seleucids, all of the Romans at once. The Romans are also at war with Seleucids and Ptolemies. And all these factions are hugely powerful (well, not the Seleucids anymore). It's a real clash of Titans! Basically the only neighbouring faction that isn't out to kill me yet is Parthia. The Brutii keep sending full stacks to strike my homelands, they march through Sarmatian lands unopposed. But I have stacks with Heavy Spearmen and archers and onagers at the bridges stopping them. Many roman full stacks have been completely annihilated (the bug where they rout to my side of bridge and so get absolutely destroyed trying to run through my phalanx) but more just keep coming. They also attack the greek cities I'm holding but I beat them easily in sally battles. Ptolemies sometimes attack me in southern Persian coast but I can keep them in check.

    I am now just clearing the far east from Seleucid pockets of resistance. Once I'm done there, I will take the Middle East except Antioch. Then we'll see whether the Maccies or Seleucids will accept protectorateship first. The one that accepts gets Middle East and Greece, the other one gets wiped out. If I manage to get a protectorate then I'll focus on getting India and other eastern provinces, maybe kick the Parthians if they decide to challenge me. Then I'll give those Ptolemies a beating they will remember.

    One thing that's annoying me in this campaign is that most of my cities won't grow up to Large size unless I lower taxes to minimum and they won't Reach Huge size unless I move in peasants and disband them. Armenia really could use a health/population boost temple. It doesn't help that most of my governors get the sucky "geomancer" retinue that decreases population growth

    RTW, 167 BC: Rome expels Greek philosophers after the Lex Fannia law is passed. This bans the effete and nasty Greek practice of 'philosophy' in favour of more manly, properly Roman pursuits that don't involve quite so much thinking.

  2. #92
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant
    Hmm, I think that would be hard when they have phalanges or other spearmen guarding it. It seems incredibly hard to bait foot archers, especially when you are the attacker. All the AI has to do is wait the battle out and watch you lose.

    Any advice on diversing enemy troops as Armenia? And how will I deal with Seleucid and Egyptian chariots??
    I read your first post again and....of course you need more than just one unit. Attacking an army containing archers etc. with just one CA is tough. It takes another cav to distract them...if you fight anyway, I found it helpful to charge into the flank of a guarding infantry unit (quite often those fools won't turn) which provides a cover against the archers if you manage it right. Fight on until the other guarding units join the fight, then pull out and get those archers.
    Of course the applicability of such a move is heavily influenced by terrain, fatigue etc. I'd opt for using an additional unit in the attack.

    As for those chariots: Yes, they are nasty. If you go up this thread a little you will find my own cry for support....anyway, keep your cav away from them at all costs. They will get mown down no matter if the chariots fight, move or rout. Instead, steer clear and pepper them with whatever missiles you have. Peltasts get a bonus vs., archers can use flaming arrows to make them run amok and slingers are reasonably accurate vs. chariots.
    When I found myself in the situation I even humbled myself by recruiting Eastern inf or mercs as cannon fodder resp. chariot-binders....as soon as you have heavy spearmen, things will get better. Simply let them get charged by the chariots - they will rout subsequently if there are not too many of them.
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  3. #93

    Default Re: Armenia

    Quote Originally Posted by Deus ret.
    I read your first post again and....of course you need more than just one unit. Attacking an army containing archers etc. with just one CA is tough. It takes another cav to distract them...if you fight anyway, I found it helpful to charge into the flank of a guarding infantry unit (quite often those fools won't turn) which provides a cover against the archers if you manage it right. Fight on until the other guarding units join the fight, then pull out and get those archers.
    Of course the applicability of such a move is heavily influenced by terrain, fatigue etc. I'd opt for using an additional unit in the attack.

    As for those chariots: Yes, they are nasty. If you go up this thread a little you will find my own cry for support....anyway, keep your cav away from them at all costs. They will get mown down no matter if the chariots fight, move or rout. Instead, steer clear and pepper them with whatever missiles you have. Peltasts get a bonus vs., archers can use flaming arrows to make them run amok and slingers are reasonably accurate vs. chariots.
    When I found myself in the situation I even humbled myself by recruiting Eastern inf or mercs as cannon fodder resp. chariot-binders....as soon as you have heavy spearmen, things will get better. Simply let them get charged by the chariots - they will rout subsequently if there are not too many of them.
    Thank you for your advice. That Armour Piercing attack of chariots is just despicable for all cavalry armies...

    Looks like I will have to throw in some infantry units, despite getting slowed down on the campaign map... *sigh*. Hope those heavy spearmen are worth the trouble, I am just beginning to build those Militia Barracks!

  4. #94
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    At 7/6/17 (Att/Ch/Def) they definitely are. Plus some armour/exp upgrade you might be able to apply....as long as the enemy has chariots, they will serve you very well. As soon as Pontics, Seleucids and Eggies are wiped out, again nothing will be able to withstand your all-cav armies....
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  5. #95
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    On chariots: if they are only about 1-2 units in each army (as they usually are) and there are few others, detail three HA units to each chariot unit and make them chase you around and around. When they are tired, very tired or exhausted, they will run amok, upon which you can easily shoot them to bits. While you're at it making them chase you around, shoot them to bits anyway. In desperate situations when you've been chased to the border, don't hesitate to charge them. You don't have any other choice. All 3 units at once should mercifully shorten the slaughter. Surely, you'll be left with at most 50-60 per unit more often less, but better than not having any charge bonus. For Eggy generals and any chariot archers, just chase them. They have skirmish mode, so they'll run -away- from you, meaning you can concentrate superior weight of fire on them while they just keep running away from you and refraining from armour-piercing contact. Only standard Scythed and Heavy chariotry should worry you.


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  6. #96

    Default Re: Armenia

    Quote Originally Posted by pezhetairoi
    On chariots: if they are only about 1-2 units in each army (as they usually are) and there are few others, detail three HA units to each chariot unit and make them chase you around and around. When they are tired, very tired or exhausted, they will run amok, upon which you can easily shoot them to bits. While you're at it making them chase you around, shoot them to bits anyway. In desperate situations when you've been chased to the border, don't hesitate to charge them. You don't have any other choice. All 3 units at once should mercifully shorten the slaughter. Surely, you'll be left with at most 50-60 per unit more often less, but better than not having any charge bonus. For Eggy generals and any chariot archers, just chase them. They have skirmish mode, so they'll run -away- from you, meaning you can concentrate superior weight of fire on them while they just keep running away from you and refraining from armour-piercing contact. Only standard Scythed and Heavy chariotry should worry you.
    Aha! Thanks to your insights, now I know how to use the rest of my outdated Horse Archers that I have been replacing with Cat. Archers.

    But, wouldn't retreating fast targets behind Heavy Spearmen work better? Unless, Scythed and Heavy chariots can go through a phalanx...

  7. #97

    Default Re: Armenia

    I'm about to start Armenia in 5.41 . Any ideas which directions I should go first ? East , west or south ? North is not an option I believe (even during vanilla days).

    Seleucid is ally at the start but I don't believe in pre-starting allies in RTR. had that experience as macedon where I have been besiege by my 'allies' in the first turn . (Greeks & Epirus)

    FYI I'm playing RTR 5.41 + TCB mini mod

    Cheers !!
    Say: O unbelievers, I serve not what you serve, nor do you serve what I serve, nor shall I serve what you are serving, nor shall you be serving what I serve.
    To you your religion, and to me my religion.

  8. #98
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    No idea about TCB, but concerning the faction you've made a tough choice. At least in RTR....

    The Seleucids are not likely to attack you soon. Their armies are elsewhere and well occupied. Thus, get trade rights from them and leave them alone for now.

    Pontus is more important, and richer than you are. These nasty little notgoodformuches will go after you rather sooner than later, mainly with crappy infantry though. At least in my experience. Consequently, wipe them off the map and establish yourself as the aspirant for domination of Asia minor in their place. Conquering the rest of today's Turkey will be your main task then; it's also the first step towards weakening the Ptolemaics. If possible, become the #1 black sea naval power and establish footholds around it. Sea trade will benefit greatly.

    (Pez, I know well that you will rejoice now that I've recommended your expansion route..for RTR, I indeed found it to be much more worthwhile than my own approach because the map's border is way further to the east, eliminating the strategic advantage which an early elimination of Parthia provided...cheers nonetheless!)

    Okay, now for the Parthians. Their army is very much like yours, except for their crappier infantry. This, as well as their proximity, means that they soon will be a threat to you. Fight them off as well as you can and don't worry if you lose one or two cities. As soon as Asia Minor is conquered, you are in an excellent position to push them back and eliminate them if the situation allows.

    If not, or if they don't attack, it is high time to take care of the Ptolemaics. They'll likely have brought the Seleucids into considerable trouble by now. So, make your way towards the Ptols and take whatever Seleucid territory is in your way. I guess the best and most profitable route to take is down the levante (Antioch etc), thereby minimizing your borders. Alternatively, seek an alliance with the SE w/ military access, but they're not very prone to grant it.
    In any case, as soon as you have yellow stacks in front of you attack and don't relent until you've reached the Nile valley. You can also relieve your levante armies by the notorious amphibious assault on the Nile delta.
    Bringing the Ptols to their knees may well take a while, considering the level of development they should have reached by now. Don't despond, at least your armies and generals will be of the finest quality thereafter.

    Of course, don't neglect your other fronts during the operation but you should be capable of sustaining several decently-sized armies by now. Once Egypt is yours, consolidate, re-arrange your borders and take on whomever you want...few factions will be able to stand in your way now that you own one of the richest areas on the map.

    The initial decision is basically one of going East or West. Turning southward isn't worthwhile since it will stretch your borders further than necessary, leaving your flanks even more open for an attack from Pontus or the Parthians. Turning eastward is not the best option, too, because the Parthian's lands are poor, and in contrast to vanilla RTW taking them won't improve your strategic position at all. Thus, head westwards and go for Pontus! Taking care of them early in the game also prevents them from building chariots en masse which are a real threat to your cavalry-heavy armies.

    Hope this is of some help.
    Last edited by Deus ret.; 08-18-2005 at 16:36.
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  9. #99

    Default Re: Armenia

    Quote Originally Posted by Conqueror
    Hey Craterus, I'm playing a MM Armenian campaign too

    I'm on to 175 BC already and my great Armenian empire runs from Greece almost to India. I own Asia Minor, most land from the Caspian to the Persian Gulf and the eastern med islands and most of Greece. Maccies are camped in Corinth and I'm trying to get them to accept protectorateship, but the bastards won't give up even if I offer all of Greece, their islands, most of my treasury (I got ~200,000, was over 300,000 at best) and 20,000+ tribute per turn for 50 turns! I literally saved them from being annihilated by the Brutii, but they won't play nice and be a good little buffer state for me

    The start of the game was easy, taking rebel cities in the first few turns isn't too hard when you buy some mercenaries and beat the rebels when they sally out. Pontus is a real pushover since they just love to mass Eastern Infantry. Taking Asia Minor put me in war with Greeks (annihilated by other factions very soon) and Ptolemies (major PITA. They attacked me and kept sending more and more units untill I took all of their Asia Minor provinces + Cyprus). Sarmatians were hanging around near my homelands looking like they were up to something stupid, but I kept enough troops near border that they never dared to attack me.

    The biggest conflict in MM is with Seleucids. They start huge and with lots of resources. Not to mention that they made alliance with Ptolemies and it's lasted up to this day. They still have the Middle East from Antioch to Seleukia (because I let them have it), and two provinces in the far east that are surrounded from all sides now. It's been extremely slow progress conquering all their eastern lands. This is because distance to capital penalties get HUGE (and I'm not moving my capital) and because I play with self-imposed honor rules to not recruit units other than peasants untill a settlement is properly converted to my faction.

    I made alliance with Parthians and they haven't backstabbed me yet. They haven't attacked Seleucids at all, even after their eastern provinces became isolated. They've been at wars with Sarmatians. Speaking of whom, are now pushed back by the immensely powerful Brutii. Those greenie romans have like a million man army.

    As I mentioned earlier, I stepped in to save the Maccies from Brutes. That put me in war with Ptolemies, Seleucids, all of the Romans at once. The Romans are also at war with Seleucids and Ptolemies. And all these factions are hugely powerful (well, not the Seleucids anymore). It's a real clash of Titans! Basically the only neighbouring faction that isn't out to kill me yet is Parthia. The Brutii keep sending full stacks to strike my homelands, they march through Sarmatian lands unopposed. But I have stacks with Heavy Spearmen and archers and onagers at the bridges stopping them. Many roman full stacks have been completely annihilated (the bug where they rout to my side of bridge and so get absolutely destroyed trying to run through my phalanx) but more just keep coming. They also attack the greek cities I'm holding but I beat them easily in sally battles. Ptolemies sometimes attack me in southern Persian coast but I can keep them in check.

    I am now just clearing the far east from Seleucid pockets of resistance. Once I'm done there, I will take the Middle East except Antioch. Then we'll see whether the Maccies or Seleucids will accept protectorateship first. The one that accepts gets Middle East and Greece, the other one gets wiped out. If I manage to get a protectorate then I'll focus on getting India and other eastern provinces, maybe kick the Parthians if they decide to challenge me. Then I'll give those Ptolemies a beating they will remember.

    One thing that's annoying me in this campaign is that most of my cities won't grow up to Large size unless I lower taxes to minimum and they won't Reach Huge size unless I move in peasants and disband them. Armenia really could use a health/population boost temple. It doesn't help that most of my governors get the sucky "geomancer" retinue that decreases population growth
    You are a lot further into your game than I am. I'm about to knock out Pontus, and then I'm going to have to beat back the Seleucids. I'm up to about 250 BC at the latest, but I'm pretty sure it's earlier than that.

    Well, I got back from holiday yesterday night and haven't played on RTW since I got back. I have a lot to do tomorrow too, so no RTW play for a while. You will finish this campaign before I do.

  10. #100

    Red face Re: Armenia

    TCB 2.0 Time Comander minimod I think. Nothing changes much except that can only built ships on provinces that got log/wood resources. One more thing Cretan archer buildable in sparta , athens ect.

    To late for the advice because Seleucid attack me even though they're besieged by small Pontus and mighty Ptolemaic all over. It's 10 years into the campaign now , I only add 2 provinces to my original 4 on Seleucid expence with my original starting army. Haven't been able to retrain because only now can balance the check book.

    I survive mainly because of my travelling salesman (in RTR the most I can get for a map is 1000 , no more 10000 like in vanilla).

    Anyway back to the strategy, I guess the the only course now is Seleucid, their large fragile empire is waiting to be exploit and their phalanx are easy target practise for my HA.
    Say: O unbelievers, I serve not what you serve, nor do you serve what I serve, nor shall I serve what you are serving, nor shall you be serving what I serve.
    To you your religion, and to me my religion.

  11. #101
    Member Member Skott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Yeah, I find it very hard to get more than 1000 denari for map info as well. It can be done but its not easy nor often. 1000 is pretty much the best you can do except in certain cases. I did get 500 denari for 9 turns offer once which I promptly accepted but it was with an ally. I think it was just blind luck on my part to get that deal.

    You could use the add_money cheat but that is cheating and many dont like using it. In 5.4.1 I think the most is 40,000 you can get at one time using the money cheat.

  12. #102

    Lightbulb Re: Armenia

    Had to restart armenian campaign. I definately cannot go south. Still need the trade with Seleucid and Ptolemaic. While my army is having a good time in picking on cities in the south , Pontus decided they don't need my alliance anymore and attack my 3 cities in the north. None are defended , only had a governor in each of the city.

    Too bad.

    Now I restarted the campaign and in the second turn sacked the nearest Pontus town (as a revenge from past life).

    After todays working day I'm gonna have a big (probably decisive) battle with a full stack Pontus army led by faction leader and heir with my half stack mainly HA.

    We'll see.

    Cheers !!!

    (This eventually kick back my Germania campaign to later date)
    Say: O unbelievers, I serve not what you serve, nor do you serve what I serve, nor shall I serve what you are serving, nor shall you be serving what I serve.
    To you your religion, and to me my religion.

  13. #103

    Default Re: Armenia

    Since your final goal is Rome, I think the wisest thing to do is go west. And take the rich area of Asia Minor. I am getting 9k a turn and I own the northern half of Asia Minor (playing MM, so there are more cities/provinces).

    Unfortunately, Seleucids are looking to break the alliance as they keep heading for my home provinces. I've sorted out some forts to put them off, but the forts are easy to walk around. I cancelled my alliance with them so as not to get a bad reputation in case they attack me. I also have all my cat archers and heavy spearmen near the original provinces because that's the only place I can build them.

    In the west, my next target is Pergamum, but Egypt look to be going for this too, as well as Ancyra which is heavily defended by barbarian (Gallic units) because the Celts settled in Asia Minor and that is their stronghold. I think Egypt will take Ancyra, then head for Pergamum and my other provinces because their main target is to get the entirity of Asia Minor. For some reason, they haven't gone for Seleucid provinces, even though most are poorly defended. With Mundus Magnus, Seleucids don't have enough men to defend their empire.

  14. #104
    Legendary Member Taurus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    I havn't had much time for my campaigns since I became addicted to mulitplayer but I recently started another Armenian campaign. I havn't made much headway because of mp but I have made an Alliance with Pontus and am currently waging war against the Seleucids. After this I plan on taking Egypt or Parthia.
    I have also grown a lot closer to horse archers which I use very often to wittle down the Seleucid pikemen. However, all looks to be going well as I plan to move south but I may even try and go north first attacking Scythia to see how the campaign fares.

    Thanks

  15. #105

    Default Re: Armenia

    Playing MM, Seleucids are a little too large to take on but my war with them is inevitable. I haven't played my game for a long time, but hopefully I'll get to play some tomorrow. I just knocked out Pontus and own the Northern half of Asia Minor. Seleucids are coming for me and my main field army is at Pergamum.

    I think I will take a few generals from that army and send them up to the original provinces and defend from Seleucids. So far, I've only used one army, and basically sweeped across Asia Minor. Recruiting Eastern mercenaries and Peasants for garrisons, but this is a great campaign so far.

  16. #106
    Legendary Member Taurus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Yeah cool. I realised the Seleucids are quite difficult to fight straight from the word go so that's why I thought I'd ally with Pontus in the hope that they would wear down or at least distract the Seleucids which at the minute they seem to be doing. This means that I can forget about their Western forces and conquer their Eastern provinces, or so I hope.

    But we will see how it progesses.

    btw, playing Battle Difficulty - Medium, Campaign Difficulty - Hard.

  17. #107
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    I was thinking, as long as you bankrupted yourself queuing HA at the very start of the campaign, you would have enough troops to push all the way to Seleucia and east. Expansion to the Caucasus is good, but Pontus is still by far the best. Armenia seems to be economically screwed. I.E. You will run up monstrous debt, but there seems to be very little choice otherwise.

    My alternative strategy (only a bad commander has only one plan) is to strike Seleukeia. They have 3 armoured elephants in Antioch so don't go that way until you're absolutely sure that they have vacated the city. Usually the elephants disappear by turn 40 on some campaign or another so Antioch (and its commerce, etc) will be open to you. The east in Seleukeia is really worth taking, because despite its low population, it is open and numerous. It is harder for Seleukid armies to catch you there, and their garrisons are pathetic. (On the lines of 2 militia hoplites, or one). So you could abandon Armenia completely and transfer operations south, preferably taking out Parthia on the way. Sorta cutting a swath of destruction. But make sure your scout precedes you to scout out cities with 2000 population or more so you can build stables there and retrain (not that you'd have any money to do so, but.)

    Okay I'm not making any sense. That's all I'll say till I go past turn 20 on my Armenia MM (shelved) campaign.


    EB DEVOTEE SINCE 2004

  18. #108
    Member Member Kickius Buttius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    Quick story to share:

    I started an H/H game as Armenia, with the intention of relocating the entire faction to a different part of the map for a little extra challenge. I built a port and then a fleet right away, while moving all of my family and army units to the coast. I built peasants in numbers sufficient to prevent rebellion in each town.

    The plan was to board the ships, sail to Kydonia and take that city. I would then make Kydonia my capitol and take Cyrene (spelling?) and Lepcis Magna. Immediately after taking Kydonia, I would destroy all buildings in the original two Armenia cities and disband the peasants- allowing them to revolt. I would then play from the new location.

    Worked like a charm, except for the fact that my fleet, which contained every family member and army unit that I had, was sunk by pirates the turn after setting sail. Game over.

    Oops.
    "Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" -John Wayne

  19. #109
    Member Member Tenaka_Khan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    I had a couple of tries at VH/VH in RTW 1.3.

    Armenia starts in a difficult position in that you are isolated and your 2 settlements are small with little $. I found the best way to start was to first block the southern valley (make sure you build on Armenian land) with a fort to stop Pontics coming from your Sth/Wst and I built a fort in the North just in case Scythia came calling. While 500 denarii is expensive it gave me valuable time in the begining.

    I then sent 2 diplomats ASAP to Pontics and seluciads for trade/alliance. In previous VH/VH games they had being too powerful in the begining hitting me early with large stacks that I couldn't deal with.

    Economy wise everything was at very high as these starting towns are too slow in growing to worry about increasing population.

    Then I started building Horse Archers, like all the other posts above they are the backbone of the Armenian army in the early stages. As soon as I had 3-4 I took them and my leader and cataphracts and headed east taking the Rebel city very early, it still had no walls. At the same time I had sent a couple of spies to the Parthian city on the eastern border of the map. My Army then continued on, boosted by some more horse archers and hit the parthian town sacking it and pumping out more HA. Then I headed south, already at this time Pontics and Seluciads are walking around with several full stack armies (in my game no one was fighting early on, the seluciads and Egyptians never went to war, likewise the Pontics and the Seluciads). I did ally with the Greeks and Thracians in a attempt to squeeze Pontic but it never happended.

    As I was heading South both the Seluciads and Pontics betrayed and jumped me. While Pontus was besieging my fort I had a second stack been produced in my original capital, my first stack headed south to Selucia steamrolloing anything in its path. Using a spy again I sacked Selucia, you need this money to keep pumping out HA and some armour upgrades. Use Selucia as Southern protection against both Parthia and Seluciads (plus increase farm income). If your spy doesn't open the gates make sure you hire a couple of Eastern inf or whatever to man the rams. If you can have a assassin trying to kill the generals it helps in battles where VH setting.

    The reason this plan can work is that the HA take little/no casualties in battle. They will basically avoid other troops on skirmish, you just have to make sure you target troops that can hurt them at the start of the battle. I always went after militia calvary, peltasts, slingers etc, you may have to micro manage as the HA often let these guys get into range. You will also rely heavily on your generals/cataphrats to save the day where a fast pursuer is chasing them. This early in the game there is not that many archers/chariots so they're not so much of an issue.

    I used selucia as a base hitting any lurking stacks then retreating back to castle to retrain. I agree with earlier posts that Armenians must live to fight another day in many battles, especially as your arrows run out. I don't see this as cheating the AI but rather accuratley reflecting what a HA would do e.g. turn tail once the arrows are gone. This is the strategy you use for defending your cities. Wait to be besieged then sally, kill militia calvary slingers etc then soldiers. Once arrows gone retreat into castle till battle ends (make sure start game settings have battle time limit on). Then if the attack next turn you sally forth again. Armenia have to whittle away at the enemy, this was difficult for me as in the past I have favoured the greek factions which I based the standard hoplites, archers, calvary support where only cowards did a runner. Armenia is HA and HA hit and run!

    Eventually my Southern army was strong enough to attack the next Seluciads town sacking it. I then took Parthia town so I now had 4 cities in the mountains and 3 in the North of the desert. HA were coming thick and fast and even had money to hire desert/camal cav in south and samrtian/barbarian cav in north.

    I kept Pontus from my Northern border with an army in the North and then rampaged in the south taking all the selcuiads and then into Egypt and Asia Minor fighting on 2 fronts. Money is now pouring in especially with spice roads in cities. Focus building trade buildings with only a stable for HA in cities to build/retrain.

    HA are still the basis of my army, I am fighting the greeks and HA are making mincemeat out of the hoplites, HA are all now gold chevron with gold weapons and silver armour (Make sure you get antioch with its temple intact for silver upgrades and then Rhodes for the archer gold upgrade). I'm not to keen on cataphract archers as they use their arrows up too quickly. My basic army is still HA, Generals and some decent cataphracts thrown in (now that I can afford them).

    To deal with archers/archer chariots I use the cantabrian circle and set HA to loose formation, these are my "whirling circles of death" and are quite effective with armies with several archer units (just be careful of obstacles or calvary/chariot charges), target their archers, if you can hit their archers with your heavy cav/general all the better (just get him out before there infantry/cav attack). If a unit chases a HA send a couple to pursue that unit from behind, in no time they will be fleeing due to the casualties (most of the time... I have lost some of my veteran HA to quick moving chariots as my support as too slow in arriving).

    Flanking with archers is also very effective. I send 3 units around the flanks, as the HA can shoot and move even if the enemy sends out chasers they just skirmish and shred the pursuers. If there are cahriots I also target these. Same technique is to kill all those units that can hurt, shoot rest and then withdraw and kill again. That is why it is always good to have some movement left if enemies are about. Stand and fight then withdraw when arrows gone, if the army chases and catches you again you have reloaded and can finish them off. That is how 200 HA can kill 800 stack armies. When defending make the enemy come to you and even chase you, the enemy really drop like flies when your troops are fresh and they are exhausted. I've had generals kill hundreds of exhausted troops running them down.

    I'm now starting to run into the Brutii in the North and the Scipii in the South, already having problems besieging towns with my all calvary armies and have sarted introducing spearmen, legions and archers for the sieges (note: towers in stone walls really hammer horse archers). Cav have no problem if you want to wait the enemy out but hard if you want to assault the castle (unfortunately horses cannot climb ladders).

    One thing I noticed was that the early generals were slow to reproduce and often married women several years their senior. I focused on law/war temples but it may be wise to focus on several fertility/happiness temples.

    Overall a good faction to play and very different then any other I have played (greek, briton and roman). While it is only a matter of time to victory I am looking forward to seeing how the HA stand up to Roman armies.

  20. #110

    Default Re: Armenia

    Well after playing Julii, Carthage, Scipii, Brutii, Macedon, and Seleucids (in that order), I felt it was time I tried out a HA faction. Armenia seemed to be the only one with any decent infantry but I absolutely hated their starting position. You lose money from the start (very unlike the other 5 factions) and your only real option economically is to take over Pontic territory. I missed Greece very much. So much in fact, that I took all my family members and about 8 or so HA, loaded them on a boat, and sailed towards Greece. I dropped them off on a quick raiding pitstop next to Byzantium and good thing too since my fleet got attacked the moment they got off. A diplomat secured an alliance with Thrace and I proceded towards my next checkpoint: Macedonia. Surprisingly with just a family member (all I could spare at the moment) Byzantium remained relatively loyal. Thessalona however didn't and revolted back to Macedonian control. Meh, free money (I'm still 8000 denari in debt). Things are looking good though, I'm actually making a profit now every turn. I then took Corinth, Sparta, Athens, Thermon, Kydona, and Apollonia (Brutii forced me into this one, stupid Romans) in that order. I'm currently 20000 denari in the positive and pumping HA like there's no tomorrow. Horse archers definitely thrive against phalanx/infantry heavy warfare. You can't hammer something not pinned against your anvil.

  21. #111
    Back in style Member Lentonius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    dunno why but i always had armenia as one of my faves...
    Hey, Im back

  22. #112
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    I never had a problem with the Selucids. I allied with Egypt against the Selucids. After Selucia was mostly mine I turned my attention to the on and off Parthia war I was fighting. That was solved by an alliance with Sycthia and we both quickly turned Parthia into rubble. At this point, Pontus had crumbled under the power of the Greeks and Egyptians, but they were constantly revolting, so me being the power grab afficionado (I am pretty sure that isn't english, I think its Italian or Spanish but I heard a friend of mine throw that word around and thought I'd try it) I took the rebel cities that were vacated while the rebels were fighting other factions. Then, while Egypt was fighting on Multiple fronts (Scippii, Greek Cities, Numidia and I believe the Brutii) I marched into their core areas with a large army of Armenian Legions (quite a good rip off) Cataphracts, Cataphract Archers, and the Armenian Phalanx pikemen. I besieged three of those core cities (I think Alexandria and two more, cannot remember their names) and slaughtered all their family members. Egypt fell soon. I am currently in a war against the Greeks, but it isn't looking good for them. I have an alliance with Sycthia (remaining loyal for they are not a threat), Rome (that is all going to change soon), the Gauls (going to coordinate attack with them against Rome), and Thrace (they are helping me against Greece). I beleive that Armenia apart from being the best because I am biased, allows the most flexibility of any faction. You have your Armenian Legions and phalanx pikemen, but on the other hand, you have calvary archers, cataphracts, cataphract archers et all. Haik rules the ancient world!

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

  23. #113
    Member Member Roy1991's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    This is quite a strange campaign...

    https://img505.imageshack.us/img505/8559/armeniawy9.jpg

    I've never before seen the Romans start a civil war when I was playing a non-Roman faction... It started around 225BC, and the Julii captured the last Brutii town about 5 turns ago.

    Somehow the Germanians managed to kick the Britons back to their island

    Spain captured Numantia and Corduba within 10 turns, but in 251BC their last family member apparently died, while they were still holding the entire Iberian peninsula.
    The Julii then quickly captured all the Iberian rebel provinces, but now the Carthaginians are driving them back slowly.

    So far the Julii haven't attempted yet to invade Carthage, and Carthage doesn't seem to be interested in Sicily & Italy.


    I captured Asia Minor pretty fast, but it took quite long to defeat the Egyptians.
    I then recruited a full stack consisting of 2 Generals, 8 Heavy Spearman and 10 Catatank archers ( ), and invaded Europe.
    It took me more than 35 turns to capture Greece - the ammount of Armoured Hoplites they produce is just rediculous -, but now they've only Rhodes left, which is under siege.

    I'm only fighting defensively against the Julii, to give the Carthaginians some time to conquer Iberia, so I have something other than just endless stacks of praetorians to look forward too

    The Catatank Generals are really great, they beat Roman Armoured bodyguards twice their size while losing only 2 or 3 men.
    Last edited by Roy1991; 11-04-2006 at 22:03.

  24. #114

    Default Re: Armenia

    Well, a short break and a Scipii campaign later, I'm back to the Armenians. Last time I played was back in v1.2 and I remembered abandoning my old provinces, sacking Byzantium, and restablishing myself in Sparta/Corinth/Athens.

    This time, I went straight for Anatolia, wiping out Pontus in 6 turns as well as capturing Nicomedia, Ancyra, Halicanarssus, Sardis in the next 20 turns. I left the Parthians alone and they didn't bother me one bit. With all of Turkey under my control, I was swimming in denarii. The great thing about Armenia and HA factions in general is that while they generally are pretty poor, their armies are also really cheap. My standard army consists of 6 HA and a general. Any more than 6 and I find the map getting too crowded as well as friendly fire becoming an issue.

    After Turkey, focus on Egypt, swinging around North Africa, taking Crete, Rhodes, Pergamum (if you haven't already), and work up the Greek/Macedonian cities from Sparta. The trick is to attack first if possible. Even at 1:10 odds, if the army has no range, you can wittle down the army by 200 men without losing any. If attacked, don't withdraw since if you get attacked again in the same turn, you can't withdraw on the battlefield.

    Something I didn't know until now, ALT + right-click for Cataphracts = Charge with lance and melee with AP maces.
    Last edited by rs2k2; 03-23-2007 at 19:13.

  25. #115
    The Bad Doctor Senior Member Chaotix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenia

    I had been playing a short campaign with Armenia, recently. Sorry if I'm not as detailed as some of the writers before me, but I just don't write huge, 3000 word essays on campaigns. Here's my spin on the campaign:

    Essentially, I made Alliances with Egypt, Scythia, and the Greeks, I crippled Parthia and Pontus early in the game, and then set to work fighting the Seleucids.

    The first city I took was Hatra to the south. It was owned by the not-so-mighty Seleucid Empire, and I expected a long war, but instead their diplomat offered an early ceasefire. (Mind you, I was only playing a Normal campaign- that might not happen in Hard or VH). After this, I took the rebel town of Phraaspa and Arsakia, the Capital of Parthia. By now, I had Alliances with the Greeks and the Scythians. I moved south through the mountains and grabbed Susa in a crippling battle for the Parthians. After a ceasefire with the Parthians, I set my sights on Pontus. I quickly grabbed Mazaka and Sinope (In that order) in easy battles. Since the early Pontic infantry is horrible, my horse archers had no problem cutting them down. Typically, Pontus, Parthia, and the Seleucids had allied by now, and only now did Egypt accept my Alliance offer.

    Finally, I decided to backstab the Seleucid Empire. I built up an army of mostly horse archers and a few eastern infantries and exterminated Seleucia. The outraged Seleucids now sent out a few full stack armies of levy spearmen and militia hoplites toward Hatra and Mazaka. This is a big discovery that I made: about 5 units of horse archers can single handedly cut down a whole army of levies and militia hops when used correctly. After they run out of arrows, they can even risk a charge against the remaining demoralized units if they have a general to help them out. After eliminating those armies, I moved out towards Tarsus and grabbed it.

    And that's where the story ends, for now. Heh.. maybe I did write a bit more than I expected. Anyway, bottom line is- armies completely comprised of horse archers are war-winners against early Seleucid armies. Watch out for the trained Phalanx Pikemen, though- they don't get cut down as easily as the militias
    Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer: The Gameroom

  26. #116

    Default Re: Armenia

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotix27
    Essentially, I made Alliances with Egypt, Scythia, and the Greeks, I crippled Parthia and Pontus early in the game, and then set to work fighting the Seleucids.

    The first city I took was Hatra to the south. It was owned by the not-so-mighty Seleucid Empire, and I expected a long war, but instead their diplomat offered an early ceasefire. (Mind you, I was only playing a Normal campaign- that might not happen in Hard or VH).
    I can guarantie about it will not happen in VH instead scythians attacked me in 7-8 th turn( i closed the brıdge but they came from other two and surrounded my cıtıes ) although the aliance....... while fighting with partians pontus came to my border and i stopped them with a big army so they did not attack but i coldnt use my armıy for 5 turns either . although ı took partıan capıtal they defeated seleucıds and took hatra and sended a bıg army and when ı was about the relax after a hard battle( ı retreated but kılled a lot of them) egypt came and surrounded armenıa wıth a 800 man about when ı had almost no army and another scythian army surrounded other seems ımpossıble but happened .
    at VH seleucıds are always defeated ın very short tıme ın fırst 10 turn they enter a war agaınst egypt parthia pontus and armenıa and sometımes even wıth greeks so attackıng seleucıds must be your fırst optıon after takıng the rebel town move to south a you can attack the seleucids with the parthians so make alliance with pathians after takıng at least one of these towns make a ceasefıre wıth seleucıds (they wıll make sınce they wıll be at war wıth all of theır neighbours)
    then turn your face and beat the parthıans vey quıckly create the ınvadıng army at seleucıd tows hatra and seleucıdıa because ıf you dont atack fırst they wıll do before you use mercanerıes everywhere you fınd

    when theır armıes abroad take the settlements quıckly dont thınk about pontus leave a bıg army to deal wıth both pontus and scythia ıf you get rıd of parthia wıth hıghfarmıng ıncome from wonder you wıll no need to thınk about pontus or egypt meet them wıth armıes full of HA and CA theey wıll be easy preys ıf you manage the economy and traın CA ıt wıll be a easy game for next 50-100 turns tıll you face to romans they wıll be defeated greeks and macedons so be very agressıve about rhodes and meybe even for some easy pıckıngs from southeast europe (greece and macedonıa)

  27. #117

    Cool Re: Armenia

    i just started my armenian campaign today and so far its going pretty good i have alliance with selucid and parthia and pontus is down to 1 province im on turn 11 i believe, this campagian reminds me of my pontus campagain knida lol. after pontus i plan on killing scythia then parthia then egypt then if they still exist selucid then cross N. Africa then charge italy into N. Europe until julii, scipii, and SPQR r dead then kill Brutii and if they remain macedon/GCS then wok on the barbarians of N. Europe hopefully it works im playing on M/M


  28. #118

    Default Re: Armenia

    I just finished an Armenian campaign today, and when I say finished, I mean finished.

    I find that the first, absolutely vital step is to take down Parthia straight off the bat. Start off by taking all of your troops that are in range, and annihilate the rebel town to your east. Take one turn to retrain all of your troops/train one unit of peasents for garrison, and then immediately siege the nearest Parthian city. Yes, they do have two cataphracts. However, with very vareful micromanagement it's a very winnable battle, and you end up completely neutering Parthia's strength in the region. The remainder of the next fer turns is a mop-up operation; take out Parthia's southern presence, and don't even bother with the northernmost province until very late in the game (i.e. after egypt is toast).

    If you want to take the Hanging Gardens that's fine, but otherwise leave Seleucia alone. They're an excellent buffer state that will help you avoid warring with the egyptians (I didn't take my own advice this last game and ended up fighting many fullstacks per turn with only eastern infantry and standard horse archers. Tough, but it does give your horse archers lotsa experience.)

    Another bonus with regards to holding off from invading seleucia is that they cannot hope to match your armies in the open. Even a half-stack of horse archers can keep your southern borders secure while you take on richer areas to the west with your conquering armies.

    If you're playing 1.2, then after a while there's no reason not to train Cataphract Archers only (best unit in the game, imho). In 1.5, however, instead of doing more ranged damage they have a longer range but far fewer arrows (30 volleys as opposed to 40). Therefore mix it up a little with standard HAs on a 1:1 basis. Also keep in mind that your missile cavalry will gain veterancy much faster than your melee infantry/cavalry, so by mid game you may very well have cataphract archers that are better in melee than normal cataphracts.


    Here's my end game. I conquered everywhere. The following army is entirely green, and is what I can train out of a huge city + the benefit of a Macedonian temple somewhere.



    I admit that maybe this army was slightly overkill.



    Fun fact: Those breastplates should be lopsided. Students of history shuld know what I mean.



    Another thing to note about Armenia is that they have the ability to build an excellent economy. Their law/happiness temple cuts down on corruption dramatically, and if you combine that with execution square bonuses etc, then you're laughing. Their troop training temple isn't bad either: It gives a +1 to experience at the first level temple, and is capable of giving armour upgrades - great in Eastern warfare.

    Armenia is pretty much the uberfaction in RTW. It's got Horse Archers AND good infantry, and Cataphract Archers are second to none. I will say one thing though; Hillmen and pretty much everything that can be trained from a range is pretty useless, and I finished my game without ever training one of either. A central line of Phalanxes, some light and heavy horse archers, and some Armenian Legionnaires for storming city walls, and you're set.

  29. #119
    Corrupter of Souls Member John_Longarrow's Avatar
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    Default RTW Gold assistance

    Armenia is a fantastic faction to play if you enjoy having a great diversity of army types you wish to run. It is also a fantastic faction if you want to have the best horse archers in the game backed up by legionaries, phalanx troops, powerful heavy cavalry, archers and javelin pitchers. The problem is getting to a point where you can actually build any of this. This guide is to help you survive long enough to actually make some headway.

    The first twenty or so turns will be pure survival and infrastructure turns. For some people this is the most fun part of the game; for others, the worst. My recommendation is to build up your largest city (your capitol) to a population of 6000 as quickly and economically as possible.
    On turn one, move the two Peltasts and one Archer in Kotais to Artaxarta and disband them. Also disband the two units of Peltasts in Artaxarta. That will increase your population by 400. You will also want to put your taxes to low to encourage growth. While you are doing this, move your general Aramu and his three Horse Archers (HAs) east of Artaxarta. Have the HAs from Artaxarta join up with them. You will use these five HAs and your general to siege Phraaspa, which is east and a little south of Artaxarta.

    My recommendation is to keep Phraaspa under siege until they sally out. If you go in and attack them you will take higher casualties than if you let them come out at you where your HAs can shoot at them.

    While you are doing this, you can work your diplomat around to Pontis and your other neighbors and work on getting trade rights. Until Artaxarta hits a population of 6000, I’d build up the port and other trade buildings. Artaxarta starts with the first level of stables, so as soon as you can upgrade the city building the second level is your main priority. Your goal in the first 20 turns is to avoid losing any cities and to build at least 4 Cataphract Archers (CAs). If you upgrade your farm in Artaxarta starting on turn one that will speed up how quickly you can produce CAs.

    About the time you can start building up your army you should have 5 generals. Your faction leader will probably have died already, but three of the four sons should have reached maturity. At this point you can decide which route you would rather follow; Attack Pontis, Attack the Seleucid Empire, or go after Parthia. Normally I attack Parthia first and take Arsakia. I use mercenary infantry to back a general and HAs and a CA or two. Once Arsakia is out of Parthain hands, they normally don’t attack as they get busy trying to expand south. I do get attacked by both the Seleucid Empire and Pontis shortly afterwards, so I keep an army of four to six CAs near Artaxarta to intercept and destroy each attacking stack. Six CAs and a couple generals can normally crush most incoming armies, so long as you don’t let a couple stacks gang up on you. This will also give your CAs a LOT of experience early, something that will make taking out one of the other factions much easier.

    For expansion, I normally don’t concentrate on one enemy, rather I slowly expand by taking which ever city looks best situated to help me out. I don’t want to spread my forces too thinly, but my next targets are; Sinope, Mazaka, Tarsus, Antioch, Hatra, Seleucia, and Susa in which ever order seems supportable based on what the Pontic, Seleucid empire, Parthia, and Egypt are up to. Often I will leave Antioch for last as taking that city tends to cause Egypt to attack me as soon as I’ve taken it.

    Once you are this far along, you should be running a serious surplus of Denarii and you can decide what troops you like best of the Armenian lineup. For myself, one of my goals is to have a stack of 10-12 CAs with a general and 9-7 legionaries. This gives me a solid infantry line backed up with dual purpose heavy cavalry that really wrecks most enemy armies. I also like having a group of 5 heavy spears around for bridge work. Few fights are as lopsided as heavy spears holding a bridge while CAs shoot the enemy army to pieces.

  30. #120

    Default Re: Armenia

    Erm...can somebody please help me on how to edit the game files to let me play as armenia? I move it into the playable section in the descr_strat but every time I click on it on the faction selection thing for the imperial campaign then it just crashes. Do I need to change another file?

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