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Thread: Thrace

  1. #121
    Senior Member Senior Member Quintus.JC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrace

    The use of 'Worst' is a bit harsh and personal. but the thing is they truly suck. and of course the bedtime Pajamas. really funny!

  2. #122

    Default Re: Thrace

    They truly suck on higher difficulty levels

  3. #123
    Deranged rock ape Member Quirinus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrace

    I do think that 'worst' describes the Thracians pretty well. As previously mentioned, their starting position is similar to the Seleucids, but unlike the Seleucids, there isn't any reward for putting up with early-game difficulty-- they don't get cool late-game units like the Seleucids do. In fact, the power of units on their troop roster decreases with time. Their late-game units simply cannot compete with theier late-game counterparts from other factions.
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  4. #124

    Default Re: Thrace

    Iirc, pretty awful would describe Thrace pretty well IMO.

    Mercs are a must.

  5. #125
    The Red Tezcatlipoca Member Xipe Totec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrace

    Thrace is hard at the start largely because you can't build anything better than peltasts and militia cavalry for a while and are surrounded by potentially hostile factions. In such a situation an early blitz is essential to improve your economy before you are swamped, but the problem here is with what? I threw the militia cavalry from Tylis north to join the Getae force for an early attack on Scythia, whilst the army near Tylis went straight for Byzantium. Both assaulted on the first turn after the rams were built and won with low-ish casualties.

    My aim when assaulting towns is always to minimise my casualties by goading enemy units away from the town square with missiles into a trap where they can be attacked from 2 or more sides so that they rout and get slaughtered or surrender when the last unit. Fighting at the town square means more dead men on my side as even peasants fight to the last man. The hoplites in Byzantium are potentially dangerous but isolated and rear attacked by falxman when they are going after another unit means they rout quickly. Making sure that routing units have to pass through your units to get back to the town centre makes for rapid annihilation of the enemy and keeps your casualties down.

    Campus Scythia luckily only had an archer and a general as garrison when I beseiged so I was a little annoyed on my next turn to find that his son had come of age and miraculously appeared with a fresh unit of bodyguards inside the settlement. It was a tough fight but militia cavalry are great at drawing generals away from the centre into a trap. I found Scythia was too weak and poor without Campus Scythia to either expand north to Vicus or Domus or to renew the struggle with me and we have had peace ever since. I think this is a key strategy for Thrace as later you want to head south without the distraction of a war against stacks of horse archers.

    I was planning a sneak attack against Porrolissum which is too close to Tylis for comfort but then my allies Macedonia suddenly launched an attack for Byzantium and my one decent army had to head south instead. I wonder if taking Byzantium triggers Macedonia into action as they seem to want it real bad. Fortunately one of my generals had hopped over to Phrygia to pick up some Cretan Archers and Rhodian Slingers already so the Macedo's were in for a shock. At this early stage the Macedonians did not have the multitudes of pikemen and hordes of lancers I have often met before playing as Scythia or Dacia and could not take being shot up and then falxed. Quick storming of big stack garrisons followed using my favourite cheap exploit: bashing holes in the wooden wall where a road runs directly away from the gap, and then putting Rhodian slingers behind the hole to massacre the hapless enemy as they run away up the road. If you get it right one slinger can kill 400 - 500 enemy easily including generals. It helps that they take so long to run out of ammo. I went on a conquering spree as far as Athens before a stack of Scipii popped up by Corinth and the Brutii attacked Thessalonica on the turn that the dreaded plague struck. And the Greek CS demanded money with menaces backed up by a stack of Armoured Hoplites. My second string army of falxmen just whacked the Brutii out of Apollonia whilst the main army finished off the Macs and kicked out the Scipii. The Greeks have gone to invade Crete so I think its time to have a bash at Sparta before they come back.

    So far I have found Thrace to be loads of fun played in a fairly blitzy way for me. Actually unlike the recent posters I think the Black and Cyan colours of this faction look rather cool. Reminds me of Mario Kempes in '78 (for the real veterans out there!). And I like the serpent logo too which will one day fly over Rome, Carthage and Antioch (bloody are already in there).
    Once Greece is all mine I need to do some turtling though and then we'll see how good the top tier Thrace units are. One day I'll have to see if it's feasible without the mercenaries to be fair, as Cretans, Rhodians and Balearics seem to make any army unstoppable if you can keep them relatively unscathed as they pick up experience.
    'I go forth about to destroy ... I am seen in the golden water; I shall appear unto mortals; I shall strengthen them for the words of war!'

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  6. #126
    Deranged rock ape Member Quirinus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrace

    Definitely a bad idea to turtle. As I said a few posts back, Thrace doesn't have particularly good late-game units. Bastarnae are pretty good, but don't really cut it with post-Marian Romans or armoured hoplites.
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  7. #127
    The Red Tezcatlipoca Member Xipe Totec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrace

    Turtling is not really what happened. I was forced to attack the Greeks all out because they put 2 stacks on small fleets and left Sparta with just a general, Spartans and an armoured hop. Too good an opportunity to miss! Both stacks went to the bottom of the sea and Sparta fell to the Cretun Arshes and Rrrhodian Slingers. GCS had already lost Asia Minor to Pontus so I was able to quickly finish them off in Crete and Rhodes.

    Controlling Greece has allowed me to start building and growing in earnest for the first time though and creating a good trading economy to support offensive armies including Thrace's best bread and butter unit the Phalanx Pikemen. These guys can usually beat Roman Republic units with the right support both in field battles and assaults. Turtling never seems to be possible for me once I get into an all out war with the Romans because they are so aggressive towards neighbouring provinces that in the end you have to conquer them or they won't leave you alone. Plus the diplomacy system means that once you are at war with any Roman faction there is no way to end the war until all (but one maybe) are wiped out.

    In the end I have found that I still haven't been able to build the top tier barracks needed to build Bastarnae in any of my settlements yet (239 bc) but having just captured Capua I can now build them there with the benefits of an awesome temple of Vulcan. This suggests that blitzing the Romans may indeed be a faster way to get highly developed settlements than turtling. Thrace's other weakness is of course poor temples, which can only be overcome by conquering and keeping those of your enemies.

    Falxmen are a useful unit for early blitzing but you have to be prepared for high casualties. They seem especially vulnerable to missiles including Roman pila and javelins from peltasts or velites. They do seem to kill cavalry quickly though and can be effective general killers. They are okay if you are attacking a large settlement which can be put to the sword to provide the cash and still have enough people left to rebuild them afterwards.

    It is certainly my intention now to focus on conquering the Romans before they hit Marius as my Northern border is quiet now the Dacians have been pushed back to Lovosice and I am quite happy to let Pontus keep the in check as they are sending everything east and seem happy to keep our profitable Aegean trade flowing.
    'I go forth about to destroy ... I am seen in the golden water; I shall appear unto mortals; I shall strengthen them for the words of war!'

    Hymn of the High Priest of Xipe Totec.

  8. #128
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrace

    So I started a campaign as Thrace, but it tanked quickly, I think I will restart it. Obviously Byzantium should be the first target, but do I ignore Dacia or attack them? It makes sense to go after Macedon quickly, but they very quickly started bringing up an unlimited number of large armies. I can defeat them, but I don't have the finances to retrain, so that is why I tanked. Should I attack Thessalonica quickly as well? Also, Scythia. They attacked me with heavy archer forces, but falxmen do nicely in melee combat against the Scythian Horse Archers. Thracian Mercs come in handy as well, but are rather expensive (800), Falxmen are certainly cheaper, but still a bit spendy (500).

    It seems important to at least get to Falxmen. Since Macedon will have lots of phalanx, probably want more missile troops as well. Since Thrace's cav is awful anyway (unrealistically so), a Stables does not seem like a high priority. Then again, maybe it is better to get Militia Cav then Peltasts, so I should perhaps focus on that instead of an Archery Range.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  9. #129
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrace

    I don't play Thrace very often (being a cavalryman Thracian cavalry really sucks), but IIRC, I take out Campus Scythii first. The next Scythian town is a looong way away and are all too small to generate troops for quite some time. With your rear secured, Byzantium should be next which will immediately draw the ire of the Macedonians.

    Early in the game, it's the Light Lancers that create problems and the AI likes to spam scads of them. Unfortunately, you can't spam Militia Cavalry to counter as the Lancers are faster and can easily run them down. Lots of hoplites will do nicely, though

    but I don't have the finances to retrain
    That's why I like to go for port cities like Scythii and Byzantium early...every bit helps. Create no navy what-so-ever at the beginning, waste of money and you cannot compete with Macedonia in that respect....yet

    do I ignore Dacia or attack them
    Depends on what they do. In my few Thracian campaigns, sometimes they come after me, in which case you have no choice but to take them out (Porrolissum is just too close on your flank to ignore). If they head west and leave you alone, you can wait and deal with them later. On rare occasions, they get into it with Macedon which is the ideal situation as that allows you to build up your forces and strike where you please, but I do mean rare

    Should I attack Thessalonica quickly as well
    That might be a stretch in the beginning. Stone walls, best general, and those two units of Macedonian Cavalry (Macedon's finest!). I would take care of Campus Scythii in my rear, wait to see what the Dacians do, and secure Byzantium before Macedon gets there.
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  10. #130
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrace

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    I don't play Thrace very often (being a cavalryman Thracian cavalry really sucks), but IIRC, I take out Campus Scythii first. The next Scythian town is a looong way away and are all too small to generate troops for quite some time. With your rear secured, Byzantium should be next which will immediately draw the ire of the Macedonians.

    That's why I like to go for port cities like Scythii and Byzantium early...every bit helps. Create no navy what-so-ever at the beginning, waste of money and you cannot compete with Macedonia in that respect....yet
    Being an infantryman, Thrace does not really excite me either. The Bastarnae are OK, but not great, though I guess the Phalanx Pikemen are OK. I use them as the basis of my Macedonian and Seleucid armies. The only problem is, I have no elite troops to supplement them. Historically, they should have given the Bastarnae to Scythia, as Dio said that the Bastarnae are properly classed as Scythians. But maybe Thrace gets them for balancing purposes. But Thrace also should have been given good cav, perhaps as good as Macedonian Cavalry. Thrace did have a proud cavalry tradition. I guess that's what the mods are for.

    Perhaps Byzantium should focus on military after building port, and the rest focus on financial. But Tylis gets attacked a lot too. It seems if I can get to Falxmen I can hold, but they are expensive. I would not bother, but Macedon can counter my Militia Hoplites with their own, better phalanx.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

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