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Thread: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

  1. #31

    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by CyanCentaur
    Thanks for the guide, Quietus. I'd like to add: POPULATION DRIVES YOUR ECONOMY.

    Most people know that taxation is proportional to population. But so are trade and farming. When a city doubles in size, it also doubles trade and farm income. If you want more money, get more people. This explains turn-to-turn trade variations, since population tends to increment upward.

    Huge bloated cities can rake massive cash despite few economic improvements. It's not obvious, because the city is allocated a large amount of public debt based on headcount. And big cities are often inefficient moneymakers per capita, so they appear not to be pulling their weight. But the city as a whole IS pulling its weight and more.

    A 20% trade bonus applies only to trade income. A 20% farm bonus applies only to farming income. But a 20% population increase applies to tax income, AND trade, AND farm income. Thus population growth should have priority over trade/farm upgrades.... (handily enough, trade and farm upgrades DO increase growth)! Sewers are ideal because they accelerate growth while countering the inevitable unhappiness growth will bring.
    Hey Cyan,

    Yes, population is the cog of the economy. Indirectly anyway. Tech Levels are the direct function of the population. For example, building ports etc. Is that what you meant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus
    i) Occupation –The city will be occupied as is and no buildings will be damaged (recommended).
    Pros:

    * Faster upgrade possibilities (city level upgrades are tied to population).
    Hence, it is fairly circular, because, you can't upgrade without population anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garvanko
    Big cities always make a loss. The best money-making populations are between 1000 and 6000. Anything above that and you'll be losing money every turn.
    Garvanko, oh no. Cities don't really lose money. Read the first part of the economics section (about wages and upkeep).

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus
    Yes, population is the cog of the economy. Indirectly anyway. Tech Levels are the direct function of the population. For example, building ports etc. Is that what you meant?
    Good observation but not what I meant. No, for example, without building new improvements whatsoever, income will increase as population increases. Obviously this is true for taxes. I believe it's also true for farms, and especially trade. Thus building a port early in the game brings little benefits, but after the population is bigger that same port will dramatically increase trade.

    If I'm right it would explain the creeping trade income you mentioned in your guide.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by CyanCentaur
    Good observation but not what I meant. No, for example, without building new improvements whatsoever, income will increase as population increases. Obviously this is true for taxes. I believe it's also true for farms, and especially trade. Thus building a port early in the game brings little benefits, but after the population is bigger that same port will dramatically increase trade.

    If I'm right it would explain the creeping trade income you mentioned in your guide.
    Oh is see. So you're saying that population is a separate modifier to trade itself and not just a factor . It does sound very feasible in explaining the trade fluctuations.

    However, since the fluctuations itself is smaller compared to the % increase of upgrade, then the modifier value must be smaller too I would say.

    From the tests I've mentioned in Ludus Magna, if you queue peasants there is a rationale change in the trade values making population a factor in the trades income.

    Queue one peasant you lose a percentage.
    Queue two peasants and you lose twice the percentage.
    But the actual equation is not linear just by doing the math by theoretically queueing all the population.

    And it is a separate function from the trade fluctuation bit. Thanks for the fresh take on the population effect on trade, Cyan.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    You're quite welcome.

    Looking closer at farm output I now believe I was wrong to correlate it with population. However, I'm still convinced trade is scaled by population. I suspect city size is the extra variable. Eg
    trade = base_trade x population x city_class


    I don't always trust the city displays. More than once I've seen reported happiness improve simply for initiating a governor's building upgrade! I cancelled the upgrade and the happiness improvement stayed. Woo hoo.

  5. #35
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    AI screwed up. The bonus should go away if you cancelled the building. Also, in 1.2 I discovered that the bonus doesn't come if you initiate the building, it only comes after you complete the building. I.e. you can't take advantage of your bonus flaw, and you have to guess which building it is the population wants.


    EB DEVOTEE SINCE 2004

  6. #36
    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    I don't know if this has been said (and i cannot use the search option... why? I don't know) but a real sweet tactic that i found during the defense of conquested towns is to leave just to units of cavalry (shocking calvary not auxilia) this way you can abuse of the lack of AI of enemy troops. I used them firstly on rebels. You deploy them in the last line then begin the battle and send them to the border of the area. Let the ememies come to you (THIS ONLY WORKS IF YOU ARE INFERIOR IN NUMBER... there are some execeptions but i'm not sure what is the rule on this so..) then when they are close enough (be careful of other light cavalry and archers) turn around to another corner of the area and walk (NOT RUN) to that point, if they stop following you just stop and wait for them to get closer then when they are charging against you run then walk again, this way you can make the infantry troops get exhausted and wipe them out with little loses. The real problem are the other cavalry units, but if it's a general just keep running (the inicial distance is very important) then turn one of your units to one side and make sure that the enemy general follows the other and flank them. You can do the same to any other cavalry (of course don't try it against elephants). The trick is keep distance beacuse the cavalry will not tire up before you, but don't worry, if the enemy is superior in numbers they will attack always and haste to destroy you, this means overconfidence, and they will generally send you just one unit of cavalry at time, the infantry is as one sentence in the game says "poor beggars".
    Born On The Flames

  7. #37
    Pious Augustus Member Krauser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    A small correction to make. I put it in bold so it's easy to see :)

    Attack Twice – Attack the enemy the second time whenever it retreats. It cannot fall back the again and will be forced to fight.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Well the 'box' only appears if you install patch 1.2 rite ?
    Say: O unbelievers, I serve not what you serve, nor do you serve what I serve, nor shall I serve what you are serving, nor shall you be serving what I serve.
    To you your religion, and to me my religion.

  9. #39
    Dragonslayer Emeritus Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quietus: how do you make those fancy tables in your guide?
    Status Emeritus

  10. #40

    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Okay well I found a problem with your income.... at least with the new patch. (Not sure if this guide was done with new patch or not)

    Farming is only affected by population in the sense that larger towns get better upgrades, and it accutally affects farming directly when you upgrade in size.

    Heres the Formula that I have found works :
    Farming Output = % gained from base farming x 200 + Number gained from farms. (For Instance, Land Clerance is 1, Communal Farming is 2, ect.)
    Level of Town = Town is 1, Large Town is 2, Minor City is 3, Large City is 4, Huge City is 5.
    Farming Income = (72 + 4 x Level of Town) x Farming Output

    I tested that formula on 5 towns and passed 10 turns, the farming income was the same.

    I'm not sure if Population does anything directly other than tax income, working on trading right now.

    Other than that, Great Guide, I wouldnt have the patience to write all of that.

  11. #41

    Question Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    (Cant edit my posts yet ) Where are you guys getting all the trade info from, I havent found that anywhere in-game, and I think the patch reworked tons of the income stuff, because nothing you guys are saying makes much sense. =/


    Okay gaassp! I did have a bad harvest for one turn while playing through the starting levels of the game. Perhaps it happens more often with lower level farms and such?
    Last edited by Zukarakox; 08-03-2005 at 06:25.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by CyanCentaur
    You're quite welcome.

    Looking closer at farm output I now believe I was wrong to correlate it with population. However, I'm still convinced trade is scaled by population. I suspect city size is the extra variable. Eg
    trade = base_trade x population x city_class


    I don't always trust the city displays. More than once I've seen reported happiness improve simply for initiating a governor's building upgrade! I cancelled the upgrade and the happiness improvement stayed. Woo hoo.

    Okay, well I think there is a + sign somewhere in that equation for the following reason : If there was all Multiplication signs, then when you built a structure, it would ALWAYS go up by a certain %, I will be researching this over the next few days.

  13. #43
    Member Member mmk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Thank you very much for this very ingormative guide!

  14. #44

    Post Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Hi Quietus,
    I really enjoyed reading your guide
    Very Helpful!!!
    I have heard that it is possible to change te territory that factions start out with in RTW. Is that true? How do you do that? and Could you walk me through it? Please?

    Xenophon

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus
    iii) Exterminate – Two thirds of the population will be killed. A player receives the most denari loot value in this option.

    Pros:
    Instantly manageable cities with little or no garrison.
    I'm not sure but I think exterminate is three quarters. Sorry if I'm wrong.

    Another PRO for extermination would be losing much if not all culture penalties, and reducing squalor, and removing unrest in a settlement. Another nice thing would be the traits a general can get for extermination.
    Student by day, bacon-eating narwhal by night (specifically midnight)

  16. #46
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    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophon the youngest
    Hi Quietus,
    I really enjoyed reading your guide
    Very Helpful!!!
    I have heard that it is possible to change te territory that factions start out with in RTW. Is that true? How do you do that? and Could you walk me through it? Please?

    Xenophon
    Xenophon, I'm not very good at modding but I think that you first have to open the RTW file. I think this would be somewhere around C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome: Total War\Data\world\campaign\imperial campaign\descr_strat.txt

    Open this notebook file, which contains all the information about the starting provinces of the factions, and change them as you wish.

    Of course, if you installed RTW into another drive, such as D, it would start with D:\, and E:\ for E drive and so on.
    Student by day, bacon-eating narwhal by night (specifically midnight)

  17. #47
    Member Member Avicenna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus
    Special Formations –
    Wedge – Unit turns into a wedge-shape. While this is a good formation chasing down troops, it is not at all helpful in actually melee. Unlike STW and MTW, wedge isn’t ideal for flanking, since they do not penetrate through units ( and thus have very little impact if any).
    Cantabrian Circle –
    Warcry –
    Phalanx Formation –
    Testudo Formation –
    Wedge- would also be useful for breaking up the formation of the enemy troops, or splitting the enemy army up. (like how Nelson did in the battle of Trafalgar) It isn't actually that good for chasing down units, as it wastes time to get into formation.
    Cantabrian Circle- Missile cav unit. It makes the unit run in circles while shooting, so that there is always an arrow shot (each soldier shoots one and does a circle and so on) at the enemy, and it also serves to lengthen your soldiers' lives, as running targets are harder to hit with missiles or slash with swords. However, the horses would be tired out after using this formation for a long time.
    Warcry- barbarian special ability. It makes their infantry jeer at the opposition, increasing their own morale while the enemy loses morale. However, be careful when using this, as you might get charged while doing a warcry. Whatever morale you gained from it and more would be lost from the impact of the charge.
    Phalanx- incredibly powerful if used correctly, the phalanx formation was the dominant formation in ancient Greece for hundreds of years. The soldiers would all hold their spears straight in front and their shield in the other hand. It is deadly against cavalry and infantry, but is too slow to attack missile troops. Defence is increased from front-on: it is almost invincible front-on, but leaves the unit vulnerable to enemy charges on the flanks and the rears. The phalanx is ideal for holding positions such as gates and bridges, but apart from that is usually used defensively, and is hopeless in the offense when it chases one unit and leaves its flank exposed to another. The key to defeating the phalanx is breaking the formation.
    Tetsudo- 'tortoise' formation. A post-Marian Roman formation. The legionaries hold their shields to the front and above their heads, making them pretty much invulnerable to arrows. However, the front and back are exposed, and the low speed of the unit often makes it easy for missile troops to simply walk to a side and shoot.
    Student by day, bacon-eating narwhal by night (specifically midnight)

  18. #48

    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophon the youngest
    Hi Quietus,
    I really enjoyed reading your guide
    Very Helpful!!!
    I have heard that it is possible to change te territory that factions start out with in RTW. Is that true? How do you do that? and Could you walk me through it? Please?

    Xenophon
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberius
    I'm not sure but I think exterminate is three quarters. Sorry if I'm wrong.

    Another PRO for extermination would be losing much if not all culture penalties, and reducing squalor, and removing unrest in a settlement. Another nice thing would be the traits a general can get for extermination.
    Xenophon, I'm not very good at modding but I think that you first have to open the RTW file. I think this would be somewhere around C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome: Total War\Data\world\campaign\imperial campaign\descr_strat.txt

    Open this notebook file, which contains all the information about the starting provinces of the factions, and change them as you wish.

    Of course, if you installed RTW into another drive, such as D, it would start with D:\, and E:\ for E drive and so on.
    @ mmk: Thanks.

    @Xenophon, sorry I don't mod. You have take up Tiberius' suggestion or post in the (mod section ) https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=73 (If you can't start a thread, PM me or pm a Mod so a thread can be started).

    @Tiberius, Have you compared the three quarters or two thirds?

    Also, that's what I meant by instantly manageable cities, the settlement is almost a clean slate and can be controlled with little or no garrison.

    Lastly, thank you very much for your contributions.

    Quietus: how do you make those fancy tables in your guide?
    I've already answered this via PM (having received the PM question first).

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus on 2005-07-16 19:01 via PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
    Hi Quietus,

    I noticed that you are using some fancy tables in your Guide to Rome:TW thread. I have tried to find ways of displaying data in table like forms on this board without any luck. Maybe it is easy and I am just not able to see its simplicity. I have tried copying tables from MS Word directly into the editor without any luck. I have also tried copying your tables into new posts without any luck. I noticed that your tables behave like the MS word tables as they are editable when I 'quote' your posts containing the tables.
    Would you depart with such a secret?

    Regards,
    Sigurd
    Hey Sigurd,

    I refer you to this thread by TosaInu (and Mouzaf): Table Tags That's my source of this knowledge.

    It's self-explanatory so enjoy.

  19. #49
    Member Member Avicenna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by LestaT
    Well the 'box' only appears if you install patch 1.2 rite ?
    i'm not entirely sure about what i have but i think i have 1.1 and there's the box
    Student by day, bacon-eating narwhal by night (specifically midnight)

  20. #50

    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    I read parts of the guide and I spotted some things missing. I'm sorry if I repeat something that has allready been said because I didn't read everything yet.


    1. In the part about short range missile infantry you said that when you enable fire at will they fire their ammo and charge. They don't charge if you enable Guard mode.
    2. Here's a way to detect spies: If during another faction's turn 1 of your cities is selected, that faction has a spy there.
    3. There's a bug when you load a game: many cities have a lowered income and public order, because some factors are not included in the calculations. These can be seen in the settlement details scroll as etheral (usually shows factors that will take effect when all the buildings in the construction queue are completed, but when you load a game it shows those factors and some factors that should be taking effect but aren't, due to the bug). This can be fixed by changing the taxes and changing them back again. I still haven't found out if the bug is corrected when you end your turn.

  21. #51
    Member Member LuckyDog Trojan's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quietus': This is my first post as a new member of the 'Guild'. Just want you to know that I have found your very thorough RTW guide to be of some useful help in several areas of the game. Many thanks!

  22. #52
    Ossie The 1st Member Ossie The Great's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    hi does anyone know how to take screenshots

  23. #53
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Such questions are better asked in the Entrance Hall or Colosseum, but I'll answer it for now. R:TW has an inbuilt screenshot function (using the F2 button, I think), but many people, including yours truly, only got blank pictures using that. I therefor recommend a screenshot program like Howie's Quick Screen Capture or Fraps.
    Looking for a good read? Visit the Library!

  24. #54
    Ossie The 1st Member Ossie The Great's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens
    Such questions are better asked in the Entrance Hall or Colosseum, but I'll answer it for now. R:TW has an inbuilt screenshot function (using the F2 button, I think), but many people, including yours truly, only got blank pictures using that. I therefor recommend a screenshot program like Howie's Quick Screen Capture or Fraps.
    thankyou for your help

  25. #55

    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Thanks a bunch Quietus!
    i really needed that guide. Your detail is what really helps.
    thanks.

  26. #56

    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by CyanCentaur
    POPULATION DRIVES YOUR ECONOMY.
    Rome Formulae

    cities = population = tax = buildings = more population + more tax = lots of troops = more cities

    ok, here's my experience, simply, without formulae.

    The more cities you have the faster your population grows. The more people you have the more money you can tax them for the land, the trade exports and imports. So all that tax is spent on building better farms, ports, ect, ect... Which makes more people, which makes more money, which makes more buildings, and on and on. So you've now got lots of people and lots of money, what to do with all those people living in squaller... make an army to take another city and capture it. Now for those of you struggling with population happiness. This army from your overcrowded city doesn't need to be hostile, make em all peasants. Once youve reached a city which needs more people, disband them. now back to work happy citizens you've done your time in the army.

    And for my next trick.... an imperial palace in 20 turns! Wow did those romans realy have legionares at 260 bc?

  27. #57
    Member Member Corbulo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    Hi everyone...I just joined...Have been digesting Quietus' masterwork (fantastic), and got stuck on the max resolution fix. I am using a CRT monitor, which does have a max res of 1280x1024. But does the fix apply to CRT displays or just TFTs.

    My auto_optimize_options.txt file does not look like the nice table in Quietus' post. There various figures in columns but none "looking right horizontally". So before getting into all that, will i notice a difference?

    Corbulo

  28. #58

    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    A lot of testing has gone into this, have a

  29. #59

    Default Re: A Comprehensive Rome: Total War Guide

    hi first off great guide Quietus, a new RTW player, i found it very helpful. i am having one problem tho that i really hope someone here can help. when i first installed and played RTW, the strategy map was in 800x600, which is what i prefer and looks best for my comp. however, once playing BI and hitting the auto detect best settings in the video menu, i no longer have the option of 800x600 for the strategy map for neither Rome or BI! now it is set to 1024x768 which is far too far away and looks horrible. following your resolution fix in the guide (below), i found my numbers to be 1.1, 1, 3, 1 (Shader 1.1, 1.4 GHz, 512 MB RAM, Radeon 9000 64 MB). i open descr_auto_optimise_options.txt and find my listing. i changed the default setting (1024x768) to 800x600 across the board, save, and start up RTW. now when i enter video options and hit auto detect, the battlemap options has 800x600 but the strategy map section is blank! and when i start up a campaign, it remains in 1024x768! i have tried reinstalling with no luck. please any info is much appreciated as the game is almost unplayable now and im already addicted! thanks in advance!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus View Post
    This is extremely important to your RTW experience. Go to RTW>data>descr_auto_optimise_options.txt. Open the file.
    The autodetect gives you a designated/assigned code or numbers according to your machine.

    Using my system as an example: Vertex Shader 1.1, 2.2 ghz, 640 MB RAM, GeForce4 4200 Go 64 MB video card, I get “1.1, 3, 4, 1 “ as assigned values.

    Once you’ve obtained you assigned numbers, look for your designation in the text file horizontally (the first four rows of values)(diagram 1.1).

    Diagram 1.1 Quietus' old resolution setting:
    Diagram 1.2 Quietus' new resolution setting

    Moving to the right of your assigned values, you’ll see the two sets of resolution. The first is for the Strategic Map, the second the Battle Map. Using, “1.1, 3, 4, 1”, I see mine as 1028x768 & 1028x768. I changed them both to 1280x800 (diagram 1.2), my max resolution, and SAVED the txt file. I load up RTW and the settings are now available in the video options. (I’ve finally figured how to do this after a long while and the results are amazing. Wow -Q).[/indent]

  30. #60

    Default Re: Quietus' Rome: Total War Guide

    any help at all?!

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