Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678
Results 211 to 227 of 227

Thread: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

  1. #211
    Confiscator of Swords Member dopp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    702

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    So they are making a distinction between German and Italian Advanced Plate (Italian supposedly being significantly better)?

  2. #212
    blaaaaaaaaaarg! Senior Member Lusted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,773

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    No they're making a difference between gothic and the very late game renaissance type of armour.

  3. #213

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    I'm very happy to finally see this problem discussed in depth. All have done a great work and I think that the results so far are encouraging. This issue had greatly reduced my enjoyment of the game, and knowing now that armor upgrades probably work as they should or nearly, has restored its appeal for me. I'm sure others felt this way because of shield bug or 2H bug, even to the point of stop playing the game. Armor upgrades was my personal stumbling stone.


  4. #214
    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Leading the formation!
    Posts
    7,918

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    Same here, did'nt play since 12/2006.
    If you remember me from M:TW days add me on Steam, do mention your org name.

    http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/__shak

  5. #215

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    I am confused. Can someone in the know tell me- do armour upgrades work properly or not?

  6. #216
    Masticator of Oreos Member Foz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    968

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    Quote Originally Posted by Furious Mental
    I am confused. Can someone in the know tell me- do armour upgrades work properly or not?
    Probably. There is this persistent notion that something is slightly off from working correctly, but I myself haven't seen evidence of it. At the very least, things are very close to what they should be - the first upgrade to padded/leather gives +4, the next +1 (5 total), and so on. So basically yes they work in the amounts they're purported to, not the +1s that are always shown on the stat sheets.


    See my Sig+ below! (Don't see it? Get info here)

  7. #217
    Slaying Pagans near you! Member TeutonicKnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    151

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    So the leather worker upgrade is definitely worth it for every settlement now at the very least. +4 armor to unarmored militia is huge.

    >> starts running around altering his build queues... <<

  8. #218
    She pushed me ... Member Arkatreides's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    937

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    Does anyone know whether this has been fixed/changed in the latest patch?


    We can clone a sheep but we cannot clone a single photon.

  9. #219
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    This topic keeps popping up...guess I might just throw another question in then:

    If you modify the base armour value a unit has and then upgrade it to the next armour level, do you effectively reduce its armour or will it just add the correct value onto your modified value.
    i.e.: Peasants have 0 base armour value and can be upgraded once for 4 armour effectively. What if you set Peasants to 10 base armour by only changing the armour value and then upgrade them? 4 armour or 14 armour?
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  10. #220
    Masticator of Oreos Member Foz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    968

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkatreides
    Does anyone know whether this has been fixed/changed in the latest patch?
    It does not appear that it has been touched at all. Not surprising really, IIRC we came upon the bulk of the discussion much closer to the patch release date than most things that did make it in.

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir
    This topic keeps popping up...guess I might just throw another question in then:

    If you modify the base armour value a unit has and then upgrade it to the next armour level, do you effectively reduce its armour or will it just add the correct value onto your modified value.
    i.e.: Peasants have 0 base armour value and can be upgraded once for 4 armour effectively. What if you set Peasants to 10 base armour by only changing the armour value and then upgrade them? 4 armour or 14 armour?
    I don't think anyone honestly knows. My guess would be the system is additive rather than using replacement. If you really want to know, setup a test case. Fight unmodified town militia (or some such unit) against a given enemy (maybe spear militia), giving the town militia 3 armor upgrades. Observe. Then mod your EDU so TM have 20 base armor, and fight the same battle, with them getting 3 armor upgrades again. Observe whether they fight better, worse, or the same. That should prove pretty conclusive.


    See my Sig+ below! (Don't see it? Get info here)

  11. #221
    Guest Gaius Terentius Varro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Spamming Thunder Braves
    Posts
    349

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    All the units that start with armor level 5 (full plate) have 9 as their armor value not 10

  12. #222

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    I'm sure I'll get flamed, but...

    It still can't be 100% determined that armor works or not, but even if it does, the stats are still incorrect in 1.2. I find this quite disconcerting. One would think this would be a relatively simple item to fix, but then again I am no programmer. Alright, 1.2 is just a "test" patch right now, but it's unlikely it will be addressed in the full patch. I found several improvements in 1.2 but when I came across the fact that that armor STILL does not APPEAR to work, I quit in disgust.

    ...alright, so I'm going to go back and load up in a minute, I just had to get my temper tantrum out of the way, lol.

  13. #223
    Guest Gaius Terentius Varro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Spamming Thunder Braves
    Posts
    349

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    Full plate is full plate no matter what stats say.

  14. #224
    Masticator of Oreos Member Foz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    968

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalthius
    I'm sure I'll get flamed, but...

    It still can't be 100% determined that armor works or not, but even if it does, the stats are still incorrect in 1.2. I find this quite disconcerting. One would think this would be a relatively simple item to fix, but then again I am no programmer. Alright, 1.2 is just a "test" patch right now, but it's unlikely it will be addressed in the full patch. I found several improvements in 1.2 but when I came across the fact that that armor STILL does not APPEAR to work, I quit in disgust.

    ...alright, so I'm going to go back and load up in a minute, I just had to get my temper tantrum out of the way, lol.
    That's exactly why it probably isn't fixed yet: because, even though it may occasionally upset you, in the end you realize it is entirely trivial. I have every confidence that all the time the devs have spent fixing things for 1.2 has been on things that are more noticeable, more important, and more broken than the stats display, so while it would be a nice thing to have fixed, I'd actually cry foul if they had done so, as it would mean something that actually might matter a little had been sacrificed in order to get it done. When we get to the point where things like shield bug, 2h bug, router chasing, passive AI, and ctd bugs are no longer appearing on the patch lists, then it may be time to think about stuff in this category, and not a moment before.


    See my Sig+ below! (Don't see it? Get info here)

  15. #225

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    @ Foz:

    I agree wholeheartedly, I just needed to complain about it to make myself feel better.

  16. #226

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    Sorry for the necro post, but I can't seem to find an accurate answer anywhere.

    There's a few threads that explain the actual values of each armour upgrade, however the main thing I can't determine is this.

    Is the first value of "armour_ug_levels" used for anything other than a reference point?

    So we know the armour values are:
    1 = +4
    2 = +6
    3 = +7
    4 = +8
    5 = +10
    6 = +11


    So if a unit had

    armour_ug_levels 0,1,2,3

    It would get +4 on the first upgrade.
    Followed by +6(+2) and +7(+1)

    However if a unit had
    armour_ug_levels 5,6

    Would it get +10 to its base instantly?
    Or would this just determine that it's first upgrade would be +11?

    Essentially, in the case the first value is NOT 0, is it's underlying value actually applied?
    It seems somewhat illogical to be yes, as this is an entirely 'hidden' (and extremely significant) armour buff.
    If no, then is there any logic to the vanilla EDU having single values for this field?
    There are some units with "armour_ug_levels 6". If there is no second value to determine the value of the 'bronze' armour upgrade, what value does the first number provide?

    Thanks for your help, and sorry again for the necro.
    I'm working on a large mod, and it is an important mechanic to understand for balancing.

  17. #227

    Default Re: Armor Upgrades Work Properly

    @XViper
    Sorry to necro, but to both answer your question, and provide further confirmation of how this works...

    The armor levels simply replace the armor levels, they DON'T add to the base levels. I.e. a unit that starts with Padded Armor (base 4 armor, like Italian Spear Militia) and then gets an armor upgrade to Light Mail (base 6 armor) will now have 6 armor, NOT 4.

    Try taking units starting with padded armor, upgraded to Light Mail, and units starting unarmored, upgraded to Heavy Mail, and you'll see the ones with 3 upgrades be more resistant to arrows, and win melee with units which are otherwise identical: which wouldn't hold true if the base 4 units got +6 to armor instead of it overwriting the 4 with 6.

    I.e. Italian Militia with 3 upgrades (Heavy Mail, starts unarmored) beat Italian Spear Militia with 1 upgrade (Light Mail, starts with Padded) more often in melee (as armor levels only differ by 1, and Spear Militia have longer spears but identical attack/mental stats, the contest is very close and a bit random...)

    If the bonuses were additive, you would expect the Italian Spear Militia in Light Mail to win by a mile (10 armor vs. 7) instead of barely losing (6 vs. 7).

    Similarly, Italian Spear Militia with 1 armor upgrade (6 Armor) are pretty even with un-upgraded Armored Sergeants (Light Mail, should probably 6 Armor though the unit card states 5 Armor), they don't wipe the floor with them like they would if it were 10 armor vs. 5 or 6.

    TLDR: Armor upgrades simply REPLACE base armor rating for sure.
    Last edited by Northstar1989; 02-17-2021 at 02:07.

Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO