Just an off-topic thread for WTW

[alexader]

I wanna creat this thread because for some time there wasn't no post so if anyone want to say something (or even just a ''OHHHGG'',like stupid questions just to make bwian angry)it's free to post,c'mon.just to keep the place alive.. ok,i will make the begging.Bwian i don't think that your mod will survive,i think it's doomed(i'm just kiding,ok.don't take it personally)doooooooooooommmeeeddddddddd............ .Everyone go ahead to throw ''OHHHGG'' to keep it alive,c'monnnnnnn..........................................

[Decker]

If the Warhammer world tangled with Warcraft(not the MMO) and LoTR, who do you think would come on top.

[Eufarius]

Sorry Bwian, but Lotr would come on top.

[alexader]

Yes i think that warhammer mod sucks(and the other games)but it will be the last,if we rank it

[Eufarius]

what?^

[ole-warhammer]

This mod rocks, can't say other things than that :P

[Bwian]

Keep it clean and sensible ( or at least funny! ) please gentlemen!

As far as progress goes, don;t be too quick to say nothing has happened! I am working with KE to fix some issues with making new skeletons for the mounts ( which currently do not work ) so I can put the Steg's in game and make CHARIOTS ... and that takes time! I also had a week of holiday.

Currently, I am working on a bunch of new Chaos units and have been putting together the unit texts which were done a while back, and producing the low detail LOD's for the dwarven units. All takes time!

[Decker]

LoTR???? Are you kidding? Common Souron got whupped by a softy(except for Sam). And he almost worked over Rohan and that place where the humans lived(forgot the name). The Dwarves already took a beating(a bad one at that). Seriously man, your killin me smalls.

[Taranaich]

Warhammer's world is richer and more full than Warcraft's, and while LOTR has a huge variety of cultures and elements, it doesn't have the variety and vibrance of Warhammer IMO. Warhammer has their equivalents of Mongols, Scots, Vikings, Medieval Kingdoms, Mayans etc. LOTR is basically just Anglo-Saxon/Celtic mythology with a few bits of Africa and China on the sidelines.

If we're talking crossover battlegrounds, then that depends on the era. If it's Warhammer vs LOTR vs Warcraft, Warhammer wins easily based on the prominence of magic and giant beasties, but all three would be smashed by Silmarillion. A Silmarillion mod would be really awesome, though it would probably take as much work as Warhammer :P

[alexader]

c'mon i am just joking to pass the time,of cource and it rocks(it just a thread for ''OHHHGG'')i don't mean whatever i am telling here(i don't know for the others).bwian it is good news that keep it up.OOOOHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Eufarius]

LoTR???? Are you kidding? Common Souron got whupped by a softy(except for Sam). And he almost worked over Rohan and that place where the humans lived(forgot the name). The Dwarves already took a beating(a bad one at that). Seriously man, your killin me smalls.

Oi I said that because its, it think the one that has most meaning.


plus I agree with Taranaich

[Decker]

BTW, what's Silmarillion?

plus I agree with Taranaich

Me too.

[Bwian]

Tales from Middle Earth in the ages before the LOTR story.

[alexader]

its explains something about the begining of midlle earth

[Taranaich]

The Silmarillion was basically the history of Middle Earth in the First and Second ages, plus a bit of the Third Age, compiled from JRRT's notes by his son Christopher. It focuses on the creation of Arda, the rise of the first dark lord Morgoth and the battles between the Elves and the forces of Darkness, and later on the fascinating intrigue between Sauron and Numenor. You had insane battles that eclipse anything in LOTR, where hundreds of balrogs and thousands of dragons battled elves, dwarves and men, in a kind of mythic grandeur like the Titanomachy of Greek Mythology.

It was really neat in the extended edition of FotR where you see Legolas looking scared witless when Gandalf says the word Balrog, considering the history of his folk with those beasties.

[Dogman55]

For The Old Ones! The Scale armoured Lizardmen shall conquer all!

[Spankfurt]

If we're talking more exciting, better reading etc. i'd have to say warhammer, thought its a little dark at times
If we're the strength of the different peoples, gods, heros i think warhammer or warcraft win. The titans on warcraft are kinda beastly.

[Decker]

The Silmarillion was basically the history of Middle Earth in the First and Second ages, plus a bit of the Third Age, compiled from JRRT's notes by his son Christopher. It focuses on the creation of Arda, the rise of the first dark lord Morgoth and the battles between the Elves and the forces of Darkness, and later on the fascinating intrigue between Sauron and Numenor. You had insane battles that eclipse anything in LOTR, where hundreds of balrogs and thousands of dragons battled elves, dwarves and men, in a kind of mythic grandeur like the Titanomachy of Greek Mythology.

It was really neat in the extended edition of FotR where you see Legolas looking scared witless when Gandalf says the word Balrog, considering the history of his folk with those beasties.

Now that is something worth reading other than WWII books that I have been reading a lot lately. I think I'll keep an eye out for these. I do think I've heard that rumored in the movie at some point too, don't quite remember tho. Hey, do they also talk about how the Dwarves were defeated?

To Spankfurt
Also, for the Warhammer books. Are you talking about the 40K books that I see in stores or Warhammer books?

[Bwian]

IT does indeed tell of the creation of the Dwarves, their involvement in the great battels of the First age, and of the fall of their great cities. It says how they were scattered, and oftheir move into Ered Luin. It also tells of the second age and the fall of Moria after the Elves taught Sauron the art of Ringmaking.

It's a bit heavier going than the LOTR books, but it is essential reading for any hard-core Tolkien fan

[Jubal_Barca]

Of course then there's other tales set in that age, the Children of Hurin (AWESOME book), Unfinished tales, etc.

Silmarillion is abosolutely awesome.

LOTR pwns Warhammer totally for story. Depth, originality, the lot. GW are a commercial company, not an english professor. The GW universe is far far far less vibrant and detailed than LOTR. LOTR did 90% of GW before GW did. Tolkein practically invented Elves as we know them, Dwarves as we know them, the idea of Orcs (even if not he GW ones), and created our modern idea of a fantasy universe. We have so much to thank him for. And everyone else has so much to balme him for.

Warhammer is a game though, so is more fun in mods and suchlike as it's made for combat and battlefield pwnage, not a story like LOTR.

GO WARHAMMER AND LOTR w00t!

OK, rant ovah...

[alexader]

jubal_barca .i think you've mayde a terrible mistake ,those creatures have been existed from the medieval times and from ancient tales so it's not a modern creation,also tolkein hadn't made any photo or picture of them in his book,peter jackshon has made a wonderfull work with this creatures,but of course tolkien hadn't invest those creature.orcs are better in warhammer and those are what people had thought that had existed in medieval times(and goblins of course.warhammer is not about making a story.it takes everything creature from tales or anything else and putting them in a game(personally i love LOTR but we have to saperate some thing)

[Jubal_Barca]

jubal_barca .i think you've mayde a terrible mistake ,those creatures have been existed from the medieval times and from ancient tales so it's not a modern creation,also tolkein hadn't made any photo or picture of them in his book,peter jackshon has made a wonderfull work with this creatures,but of course tolkien hadn't invest those creature.orcs are better in warhammer and those are what people had thought that had existed in medieval times(and goblins of course.warhammer is not about making a story.it takes everything creature from tales or anything else and putting them in a game(personally i love LOTR but we have to saperate some thing)

Dwarves have, true, but they were only really known as good smiths, nothing abot slowness, heavy armour, or a love of axes prior to Tolkein. Mediaeval Elves were pixies, tiny little things, not the human sized 'Elder Race' with all the nobility and whatnot. And Medieval Orcs were OGRES, giant human eating doodahs. And Tolekin was a good author because he didn't need pictures (he did actually draw a vast collection of artowrk but that's beside the point), he described it all in amazing detail, tha's why LOTR is sooo good.

And if you say Jackson invented the iconic imagery of LOTR I will personally kill you.

[alexader]

ok ,whatever you say(i can't chance your mind)but i don't belive in that but it's your opinion and i respect it(so every game should have the tolkien copyright below,right?)(but for the love of god it not just one man that invented all this,what have bwian to tell about this?i would like to see his opinion to(i'm not fighting you Jubal_Barca,it's just an argument,so be cool).

[Krazysigmarite]

It's basically common knowledge that all fantasy games are inspired by one another. But there is a difference between Inspiration and Plagiarism.

INSPIRATION: LOTR inspires Warhammer
PLAGIARISM: Warhammer is plagiarised by Warcraft (and it's gothic sci-fi counterpart 40k into starcraft )

Not really going to delve into why I personally believe this, but every solid fact points to the above conclusion, after one does research.

LOTR will always hold a place in the hearts of fantasy fans, but it has the disadvantage of being a universe stuck in limbo, that will never change, because the creator is dead.

Warhammer has one of the most detailed and rich universes ever created, and the historical references in it are amazingly deep and intelligent. It isn't politically correct, or dumbed-down for mass consumption. There is no pure good, or pure evil, in the Warhammer universe. It is not darkness against light. It is an insane world, and because of this, it is entirely believable - it is essentially our world, with magic and monsters representing the best and worst aspects of the human psyche and culture.

[Decker]

It's basically common knowledge that all fantasy games are inspired by one another. But there is a difference between Inspiration and Plagiarism.

INSPIRATION: LOTR inspires Warhammer
PLAGIARISM: Warhammer is plagiarised by Warcraft (and it's gothic sci-fi counterpart 40k into starcraft )

Not really going to delve into why I personally believe this, but every solid fact points to the above conclusion, after one does research.

LOTR will always hold a place in the hearts of fantasy fans, but it has the disadvantage of being a universe stuck in limbo, that will never change, because the creator is dead.

Warhammer has one of the most detailed and rich universes ever created, and the historical references in it are amazingly deep and intelligent. It isn't politically correct, or dumbed-down for mass consumption. There is no pure good, or pure evil, in the Warhammer universe. It is not darkness against light. It is an insane world, and because of this, it is entirely believable - it is essentially our world, with magic and monsters representing the best and worst aspects of the human psyche and culture.

INSPIRATION: LOTR inspires Warhammer
PLAGIARISM: Warhammer is plagiarised by Warcraft (and it's gothic sci-fi counterpart 40k into starcraft )

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.
It's easy as pie to at least get some idea:
Zerg= Tyranids
Terrans=Space Marines
Protoss=Eldar

LOTR will always hold a place in the hearts of fantasy fans, but it has the disadvantage of being a universe stuck in limbo, that will never change, because the creator is dead.

Warhammer has one of the most detailed and rich universes ever created, and the historical references in it are amazingly deep and intelligent. It isn't politically correct, or dumbed-down for mass consumption. There is no pure good, or pure evil, in the Warhammer universe. It is not darkness against light. It is an insane world, and because of this, it is entirely believable - it is essentially our world, with magic and monsters representing the best and worst aspects of the human psyche and culture.

That's the best discription of Warhammer I've seen in a long time and the answer I was looking for in my first post on this thread.

[Jubal_Barca]

The fact is that Tolkein is where the modern concepts of the major fantasy races first appeared. If you can find references of
- Human size 'elder race' Elves
- Heavily Armoured slow moving Dwarves with Axes
- Orcs as wild rampaging hordes of man sized man killers

Before or at the same time as Tolkein, I'll be happy to take your point.

(I love a good debate lol)

[Bwian]

Hmm Tolkien..lets see..

Read the Hobbit when I was 7, Lord of the Rings when I was 12 ....then read the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales 1 & 2 and ALL the extra books Christopher Tolkien released with the sketches, notes and fragments of story that he found amongst his fathers papers. The man was a masterful story teller.

Also, he virtually invented the modern take on fantasy novels. How many books have 'Comparable to Tolien at his best' on the back cover...though this often just means someone tried to make up a language and slapped a map on the fron of the book....

He took elements of Anglo Saxon myth and dark ages superstition and created a world around it. He created it in such depth that he had a creation myth, gods, history, language, writing, and a complete history ...before he wrote a book!

He didn't need to create artwork to make his characters live, and hte whole point of such work was that the imagination of th ereader decided how things would look. There were basic descriptions, but for orcs...these were largely behaviour, habits and nature. We knew roughly how big they were, how strong they were, and we knew that Morgoth had corrupted Elves to make them, since he could create no new life of his own...only Manwe could do that ( as he did for the Dwarves )

Warhammer, however, is all about WAR. The history doesn't matter to me, and the fan fiction written about th eraces is pretty weak in comparison. I wouldn't try to make a LOTR mod for M2TW, purely because I have a personal idea of what things were like ( NOT what Mr Jackson put in his film.... ) and it's a very difficult world to model. Warhammer, however, has definite images, and no need to worry about backstory when you are making a campaign map. To me...Sauron always loses the War of the Ring, the Battle of the Pelennor Fields always happens, Saruman always gets overthrown at Isenguard....and the ring always ends up going into Mount Doom to bring an end to the Third Age ( and Gollum ) at the Cracks of Doom. MAke a mod based on LOTR and these things don't happen. Not right!

[alexader]

Jubal_Barca,ok i can't find something right now to"attack"you lol,so you won a battle ,but not the WAR,lol,MUHAHAHAHAHHAAAA ,If anyone else has an opinion,please tell it,also jubal_barca if you want to insult me just send me A pm,ok,i am open,LOL,LOL,LOL.

[Taranaich]

The fact is that Tolkein is where the modern concepts of the major fantasy races first appeared. If you can find references of
- Human size 'elder race' Elves
- Heavily Armoured slow moving Dwarves with Axes
- Orcs as wild rampaging hordes of man sized man killers

Tolkien didn't invent the modern vision of elves. He based his elves on the Alfar of Norse mythology, who were beautiful and powerful humanoid beings, with a great deal of intermarriage with humans and a lot of battle.

The modern pointy-eared, forest-dwelling, androngynous elves are a creation of Dungeons & Dragons, which was unfortunately perpetuated by the Lord of the Rings movies, and are a rather sad shadow of the mighty, virile beings he had in mind, who had no problems wielding big axes or living in caves. The D&D Elves seem to bear a closer resemblance to Dunsany's elves in The King of Elfland's Daughter than Tolkien's.

Likewise, Tolkien's orcs are rather different from modern fantasy orcs: his are usually much shorter than humans, with swarthy skin, fangs and surprising intelligence. Compare this to the frequently green-skinned, porcine-faced orcs who are usually bigger and much more stupid than humans.

Tolkien did, however, give us the modern Dwarf (even if he envisaged them more as Jewish than Norse, bizarrely enough), and a lot of work was still highly influential.

I personally think Warhammer owes more to Michael Moorcock than Tolkien: the central war between Law and Chaos (and, more subtly, Man vs Himself) is central to Moorcock's stories, and just as important to the Warhammer setting. By extension, Warhammer also takes a lot of Moorcock's own influences H.P Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard (the chaos gods, lizardmen etc). Warhammer's more a melting pot of fantasy than having any one inspiration, as well as taking real history for their races and history.

[Wilhelm The Mediocre]

[QUOTE=Bwian]we knew that Morgoth had corrupted Elves to make them, since he could create no new life of his own...only Manwe could do that ( as he did for the Dwarves )QUOTE]

At risk of upsetting the glorious chieftain of the WTW mod project with my unnecessary pointing-out-of-the-error, I merely desire to say that it was Aulë who created the Dwarves, for he desired learners, that he could pass on his craft to others.