Additional Faction Ideas for MTW2

**Sun of Chersonesos** · 10-19-2006, 17:45

I believe it would be wise for modders to include the following factions while modding:-

Irish

The Coastal Empire of Cilicia (which is basically that coastal corner where in RTW tarsus and antioch is, on that coast)

Saudi Arabia

Niger

Croatia

Bulgaria

The Cumans

**DukeofSerbia** · 10-19-2006, 18:01

Originally Posted by Sun of Chersonesos

I believe it would be wise for modders to include the following factions while modding:-

Irish

No. They were never unfied as far as I know.

The Coastal Empire of Cilicia (which is basically that coastal corner where in RTW tarsus and antioch is, on that coast)

Never heard.

Saudi Arabia

Modern state in medieval time...

Niger

...

Croatia

Hungarian province...

Bulgaria

In later mods, maybe. Check on twcenter.net. Bulgarians have some plans about it.

Kiev

Every medieval mod has Rus faction.

**Sun of Chersonesos** · 10-19-2006, 22:10

Croatia is more to the south west of hungary...

Niger since there is quite a gap between the Moors and Egypt upon starting the campaign

and BTW about saudi arabia maybe we can have a name of a tribe that existed there so there is a faction that holds RTW : Dumatha

**Antagonist** · 10-20-2006, 12:54

Obviously we'll have to wait and see if the engine supports more factions, but if it does I'm all for projects to add more. Good luck.

First of all, in the various polls on this topic several nations you don't mention seem to be the most requested additions, in particular:

- Aragon (in Eastern Iberia)
- Bohemia (in Eastern Central Europe)
- Lithuania (in North-Eastern Europe)

Kiev (in Russia) Bulgaria and the Scandinavian nations also seem to be popular.

Irish

Ireland is another popular request. AFAIK it is now thought that Ireland was theoretically unified around 1000, but was somewhat fractious, being based around a complex and unique quasi-feudal system which made a single unified authority somewhat difficult. I think they also used an electoral-like system instead of primogeniture, which made establishing a dynasty difficult.

The case for Ireland as a faction is made in some detail in a similar project at TWC here.

Cilicia

This one could be very good, interesting idea.

Niger

Could possibly be very interesting, but would mean extending the map quite a bit southwards I think. If you're interested in Africa, Ethiopia might be worth a look as well.

The Cumans

Cumans/Kipchaks are another popular addition. I don't know very much about them but there do seem to be some knowledgable people around, I'd ask about it.

A project like this would likely be a fairly demanding enterprise though, I'd suggest maybe looking to cooperate with other mods interested in expanding the number of factions. Whatever you decide to do, good luck with it.

Antagonist

**Riadach** · 10-20-2006, 20:41

some of that piece on ireland is very good, others just plain rubbish. byzantine military planners? french generals? i'd love to see the evidence for that. plus the irish names for soldiery is pure bunkum as well as a basic misconception of the meaning of the word ruire. but anyway, i'd still vote for ireland.

**Sun of Chersonesos** · 10-20-2006, 20:43

thats not very nice of you to say that my ideas are rubbish :(

**Antagonist** · 10-20-2006, 21:06

He isn't talking about you, he's talking about the thread I linked to there. I just mentioned it as I'd read it recently and it goes into great detail, I can't vouch for it's accuracy as I'm not a historian.

Also the talk about Ireland reminded me that Wales is also a possibility in that part of the world, and has been asked for a few times.

Antagonist

**Anthony** · 10-20-2006, 22:44

Dáibhí O Cróinín's 'Early Medieval Ireland: 400 - 1200', which has most of the names mentioned, and the definitions of the varying ranks of kingship (and how they were understood in most of the period, but their actual definitions changed a lot; like 'flath' came to mean a prince, from having originally been a vague term implying anyone of noble rank; it came to be equated to the most common low noble rank of Fuiri (one who took submission from Boairi), Ruiri changed several times, starting as the intermediary rank between Fuiri and Riruirech (Coiced Ruire), a king of a province (Coiced Ruire was dropped due to split of the fifths, specifically Connacht into Connacht and Breifne, each often with a seperate Riruirech, but also often simply splitting the kingdom between themselves, but counted it as one kingdom), was split between Riruire and lower Ruire in the early middle ages, and reunited again as a single title sometime around the 1080s; incidentally, the rank is likely irrelevant, most commanders would be at the rank of Fuiri, or Riruirech) and explores the political systems in place up to (and shortly after) the Norman invasion. The part of Byzantines I got from some one who works on the Byzantines, I can't cite overmuch about it, except the Irish were warm with them, and had been for a long time (mostly religious writings point that out as it was largely church contact, as the Irish church, nominally loyal to Rome, was still relatively independent for a time running up to the first crusade, and was still sympathetic to the Orthodox after it). Several French names show up in court rolls, and there is the mention I think in the Annals of Tigernach of accepting French commanders in Munster (though I can't remember if that's the right one; it initially coincided (but isn't related) with Toirdellbach recieving five Jewish merchants from Normandy in 1079, which I KNOW is in those Annals, but can't remember if the French were mentioned in the same one; it also coincided with arms from France arriving in Leinster and Munster, but those were for seeking to subvert the Dubliners again, for not offering submission payments).

**Riadach** · 10-20-2006, 23:57

court rolls? what court rolls? you are right about the jewish leaders (annála inis fheithleann though), but he did turn them down. can u name the byzantine book? i did hear they were aware of irish events, but nothing about military planning. as well, the trícha cét was not an idea introduced in the 12th or 11th century, it was long in place since perhaps the 5th or 6th century even. i would presume it was ruire coiced if anything though.

**Anthony** · 10-21-2006, 00:03

Originally Posted by Riadach

court rolls? what court rolls? you are right about the jewish leaders (annála inis fheithleann though), but he did turn them down. can u name the byzantine book? i did hear they were aware of irish events, but nothing about military planning. as well, the trícha cét was not an idea introduced in the 12th or 11th century, it was long in place since perhaps the 5th or 6th century even. i would presume it was ruire coiced if anything though.

I'm aware of the use of trecha cet earlier as a division of the number of soldiers, but Daibhi seems to point to it as a land division being a later development. And I don't know the Byzantine book, I know the individual, who obsesses over the Byzantines. The division is similar to themes (but that doesn't necessarily mean it was taken from themes). I'll try and find the record for you, I think it was another piece by Daibhi talking bout them, but not his book on 400 - 1200 (though it would be within that period).