Will You Buy a SecuRomed Empire?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

UPDATE: It has been announced here will be no SecuROM in Empire: Total War - it will use the Steam system. Good job by Creative Assembly, and I will now in all probability purchase the game.

Simple question. If Empire: Total War comes with SecuRom, or similar copy protection, under the presumption it is never released with a removal tool and is similar to SecuRom or StarForce.

Will you still buy it?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The purpose of this poll is both for my own interest and to show CA and Sega our opinions.

Note that CA has not yet confirmed if SecuROM will be included in Empire, but they have stated that SecuROM or alternate copy protection will be.

[Bijo]

Didn't such a thread exist already in this forum?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I think so, but it wasn't a poll.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Polls make everything cool.

Except AIDS. Not cool at all.

[Bijo]

I think so, but it wasn't a poll.

Actually, it was a poll showing opinions.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Hmm, I didn't think it was. Well, maybe now that it's been thoroughly discussed in the M2TW forums some opinions will have changed.

[woad&fangs]

no

[Matt_Lane]

I've gotta say I'm stoked about ETW and I can't wait for it to hit the shelves. However the one big, big, big fly in my ointment is SecuRom. I was constantly on the Total War web page during the build up to Kingdoms but the SecuRom fiasco has so far put me off from buying a copy. I reckon like a true TW junkie I'll eventually give in and pick up a copy but so far I've been holding out until I see it cheaper enough to justify infecting my machine. I really don't want this stuff in my system but I suppose once I'm hooked I might not be so bothered by the copy protection on ETW so the honest answer is that yes I'll probably still buy it and then bitch about it later on these very pages.

[MStumm]

Simple question. If Empire: Total War comes with SecuRom, or similar copy protection, under the presumption it is never released with a removal tool and is similar to SecuRom or StarForce.

The particular version of SecuRom in Kingdoms does not bother me, so the answer would be yes.

But if it is StarForce, or similar then no.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
No, never, definitely not! And I'll do my best for other people not to buy it either, wherever my word counts.

When all these three conditions are met, I'll consider buying it depending on its quality:

1. It will come clean, without any invasive or malicious software;
2. Customers of Kingdoms will be offered the option to get rid of the malicious Securom, or at least a clean Kingdoms version will be released;
3. Kingdoms and MiNO will be properly patched.

.

[IrishArmenian]

I am very uncomfortable with nothing but a hard copy, so I'll just buy Empire the normal, safer way.

[Ramses II CP]

My baseline assumption is no. I'm considering purchasing Kingdoms because CA has agreed to release a patch and because I feel comfortable going through with the known, unofficial procedure to fully remove the version of SecuRom it contains, but there is no way to predict what version will come with Empire or what new violations it will contain.

Let me be clear that I wouldn't steal it either. Refusing malware doesn't mean being a pirate.

[Barbarian]

It will be a hard decision. Undecided yet.

However, those, who have Kingdoms, already have the SecuRom on their machines. So, will buying empires change anything at all?

[Bijo]

I wouldn't even buy it if it did NOT have copy protection, let alone if it WILL have. I would STEAL it..... from the store of course :P

[FactionHeir]

For those who haven't been following the SecuROM thread at the Citadel, these posts summarize it well in a nutshell:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=232

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=383

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=253

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=249

[Bravedude]

For those who haven't been following the SecuROM thread at the Citadel, these posts summarize it well in a nutshell:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=232

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=383

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=253

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=249

I was wondering why no one had posted links yet.

[Spartan198]

No,plain and simple.

[Callahan9119]

i wont buy it at all /shrug

[ArtistofWarfare]

I bought M2TW Gold (haven't installed it yet/waiting for new PC still) which as we all know, has securom.

I'll buy Empires as well. The fact remains: I plan on buying a lot of PC games in the next few years. Securom is going to either wind up on my hard drive now, or some time in the future. Might as well just bite the bullet, accept it, and continue playing the games that I want to.

If Securom was some off beat, one time application- Sure. Maybe I'd just take a pass on any software it's a part of. The fact is that Securom and copyright protection software just like it, is being sold to almost every publisher and developer in the industry today.

I just don't see any way around it...other than to deprive myself of playing the games I want to. Which is just not an option.

edit: I'll also add that since I heard about this Securom issue here on the .org, I asked people I know who have lots of new games installed on their PC. They all have Securom on their hard drive already, yet none of them report any change in their system. I'm not doubting that Securom has caused people problems...I'm just saying that it seems to be thinly spread. Older hardware seems to be primarily at risk...which makes me wonder if this is partially a nasty way to get people to upgrade hardware.

Also, Securom is made by Sony. From what I hear, Optical Drives are the main component threatened. I have a Sony optical drive. I just think this would be too ironic heh...

[crpcarrot]

no i wont

i have every TW title except for kingdoms.

i wont buy it even if its the best TW ever because of invasive software.

[Ferret]

Luckily for you it doesn't have "invasive" software, I really don't get people's problem with copy protection. I have had it on my machine for years and nothing has ever gone wrong with it. You all must be really paranoid or pirates...

[Martok]

Luckily for you it doesn't have "invasive" software, I really don't get people's problem with copy protection. I have had it on my machine for years and nothing has ever gone wrong with it. You all must be really paranoid or pirates...

Careful, now. You're not implying that the venerable Hosakawa Tito is lying and/or a pirate, are you?

While I (mostly) kid, it does bring up a valid point: Just because you and I have personally not had problems with SecuROM, it doesn't change the fact that a good number of people *have*. Yes, they're probably in the minority, but a fairly significant minority for all that. People who worry over SecuROM and other invasive copy protection software are perfectly justified in their concerns.

[ArtistofWarfare]

Careful, now. You're not implying that the venerable Hosakawa Tito is lying and/or a pirate, are you?

While I (mostly) kid, it does bring up a valid point: Just because you and I have personally not had problems with SecuROM, it doesn't change the fact that a good number of people *have*. Yes, they're probably in the minority, but a fairly significant minority for all that. People who worry over SecuROM and other invasive copy protection software are perfectly justified in their concerns.

I've now had Securom on and off the drive for over 4 months - Not even the slightest hint of a problem due to it. Nothing.

That said, this post I'm quoting is true - This does nothing to alleviate the frustration of someone who HAS had problems due to SecuROM.

I've said it before: The entire situation is totally and utterly illogical. Creating a piracy protection software package that comes included on the retail version of the game in an attempt to "verify" that people aren't using pirated software, achieves nothing. The guy with the pirated disk is still going to play the game, still not going to pay for it and still never going to see Securom on their drive.

The only person who will ever see Securom on their drive is the guy who bought the retail version. Once again, this does absolutely nothing to minimize pirated copies.

I just don't understand how the sales pitch from Securom to companies even goes. The entire program is literally worthless.

[Martok]

I've said it before: The entire situation is totally and utterly illogical. Creating a piracy protection software package that comes included on the retail version of the game in an attempt to "verify" that people aren't using pirated software, achieves nothing. The guy with the pirated disk is still going to play the game, still not going to pay for it and still never going to see Securom on their drive.

The only person who will ever see Securom on their drive is the guy who bought the retail version. Once again, this does absolutely nothing to minimize pirated copies.

I just don't understand how the sales pitch from Securom to companies even goes. The entire program is literally worthless.

Precisely.

As Brad Wardell (president & owner of game developer/publisher Stardock) has said, copy protection software like SecuROM and Starforce does nothing to reduce actual piracy. What it *does* do, however, is inconvenience legitimate game owners and treat them like criminals....which hurts game sales even further (and probably as much or more than piracy itself does). Stardock's opinion is that there's little that can be done to directly combat piracy, so the next-best thing is to increase sales.

How do they do that? By not having copy protection period, while at the same time providing long-term support (in terms of patches & updates) to people who own legal copies of the game. This system rewards people who've purchased a legitimate copy, while at the same time pirates cannot update their (illegal) game copies (and so still punishes them to some extent).

I know I probably sound like a Stardock fanboy -- I admit I have a tendency to trumpet their approach to copy protection -- and I suppose I am to some extent. That said, however, I also have to admit that what they say makes a lot of sense.

I realize it's probably a vain hope, but I would very much like to see CA/Sega adopt a similar setup for Empire (and all future Total War titles as well).

[Ferret]

Careful, now. You're not implying that the venerable Hosakawa Tito is lying and/or a pirate, are you?

While I (mostly) kid, it does bring up a valid point: Just because you and I have personally not had problems with SecuROM, it doesn't change the fact that a good number of people *have*. Yes, they're probably in the minority, but a fairly significant minority for all that. People who worry over SecuROM and other invasive copy protection software are perfectly justified in their concerns.

Well the funny thing is I have not found anywhere, on any forum for a game that contains SecuROM a problem that has been caused by it. But no I wasn't calling HT a liar or a pirate, apologies if it came across that way

I also appreciate the point that pirates can still get hold of the game but at least it is a little harder for piraters to remove SecuROM. I sympathize for the companies that want to stop this piracy which is eating out of their profit margins, and less profit means less incentive to put hard work into making the games as good as they can be. Seeing people refuse to buy the game because of this attempted piracy protection makes me sad because they end up missing out on great games that they don't know will cause any problems for them, which makes it even harder for the designers to make more money, I have a horrid feeling that piracy may get out of hand to the point where it kills PC gaming

[Thermal]

id buy it regardless, i can perfectly enjoy a game without needing to tamper with it

[rajpoot]

I have a horrid feeling that piracy may get out of hand to the point where it kills PC gaming

I doubt it, sooner or later they have to come up with a protection that is not too intrusive for the customers but will keep off the pirates.........either way, a big part of the games is online play, and only real buyers can use that, so I don't think there'll be a time when everyone goes over to the other side.

[PBI]

I have a horrid feeling that piracy may get out of hand to the point where it kills PC gaming

I don't know, I get the impression that it's not that hard to do at the moment and most people still buy legit copies. In particular, the GalCiv series should be very easy to pirate what with having essentially no copy protection but I believe it has still sold well.

I get the impression PC gamers represent a fairly loyal and intelligent end of the market; most games are part of a long running franchise, and most gamers I suspect have the sense to realise that if too many of them give their money to the pirates instead of the devs, the devs will stop making their favourite games.

[TevashSzat]

I have a horrid feeling that piracy may get out of hand to the point where it kills PC gaming

Well...not really. Piracy has now become the thing to bash whenever a studio is doing badly.

The game is selling in quantities that are lower than expectations: That can only be because people are pirating it and not because the company made a poor game that did not meet expectations or was just crappy.

Take Crysis for example, one executive I think or at least a high ranking official associated with the game boldly claimed that for ever copy of Crysis sold, 20 were pirated Right......Just to put it in perspective, Crysis has gone platinum so it has sold 1 million legitimate copies already which would mean that 20+ million people have either downloaded it with the intent to play. Just to put this in perspective, Starcraft, the greatest selling RTS ever made: less than 10 million copies including expansion. WoW only has like 11 million subscribers. In fact, the only games that I can remember off the top of my head that sold more copies than 20 million is the original the Sims and all of its expansions combined

Gaming as an industry is dying due to piracy: Yeah...right and its not because the overall quality of PC gaming has decreased ie there are far less innovative games and mostly just cookie cutter, FPS, RTS, RPG, or Sport related games released en mass

Look at DS. No one is proclaiming that DS gaming is dead, but it is the most easily pirated modern gaming apparatus out there. Theres no reason to mess around with torrents, mounting, cracks and stuff. Instead, you download like a 10 mb file, copy it onto a very very cheap disk (forgot what is was called) and you're able to play it just fine without any restrictions whatsoever. Yet, DS games are just selling just fine.

Finally, regarding pirating: people who pirate aren't just jerks who are really cheap and don't want to pay anything. They are those who don't have the money to and probably won't buy any games if they don't pirate. In fact, pirate might expand the consumer bases of some games by simply giving it access to a broader group of people that might end up liking the game and become devoted to the series

[Dimeola]

Nope wont touch it. Its not whether or not it will be used for mal purposes. Its that they do not have the right to put something of that nature on my property, something that cannot be removed. I guess the love affair stops here.