Knights of Honor

[SwordsMaster]

Yes, its spelled "honor" in the cover, not that i´m making any american-esque transformations.

Anyway, I´m just back from GAME and the game is about to hit the stores in Europe and apparently has already been released in the US, as a good number of patrons lives on the other shore of the drop of water we call the Atlantic, i was wondering if anyone found in good and why.

It appears to be (from the screenshots at knightsofhonor.com) a bit like Lords II with an Age of Empires element to it, is that so?

[Dîn-Heru]

click on downloads you can download a demo here.

[SwordsMaster]

Thanks

[Crazed Rabbit]

Spent several hours on the demo. My impressions:

The game is a real time game (like hearts of iron) played out on a 2d version of RTW's map. There are no turns-armies all move at the same time, bulidings are built continuosly, etc.

The campaign map is much better, however, because it not only has more provinces, but the map is very big (i.e. the zoom is much bigger than in RTW) and detailed. It is similar in style to the Lords of The Realm 2 map.

The Knights are nobles you can hire to act as merchants (to trade with others for gold), spies, builders (not quite sure, maybe they help towns build stuff faster?), landlords (increased food production), and marshalls (lead armies).

Each province has different attributes, like salt deposits, pastures, etc., that affect what buildings you can build. And besides the main city, each province also has little villages, monasteries, and docks, etc. These all contribute to the production capabilities of the main city, and can be looted.

Building a palisade around your town will change the town's sprite on the campaign map. Other buldings will increase the number of workers you have, how fast you gather food, etc.

Food feeds the population during a siege, and is used to create units. Units consist of a number of men grouped together.

Combat consists of your sprites fighting the other sprites. Combat included stamina, morale, etc., and seemed more realistic than RTW, though it did not include some things, like skirmish, hold position, and aggressive modes. From the battles I fought, the combat seemed roughly MTW: VI's pace, though perhaps a bit faster. The battle map is a 2d background, unfortunately, a major drawback to me.

Crusades are included too; the Pope will put out a call for a crusade against the Almohads, for example, and one of your marshalls may be given a chance to lead the crusade. The crusade is directed by the AI to its deestination, where, if successful, you can choose to fight for another province or establish a client kingdom in vassalage to your country.

The units you can hire depend on what kingdom you are (there are LOADS of choices (like the individual successor states after the sack of Constantinople in 1204), and three eras to start in; 1100, 1200, 1350.), what province your hiring the units in, and general units. You can also hire units from mercenary camps. The selection, from what I could tell, seemed broad.

Diplomacy is great. You can sign trade agreements, non-aggression pacts, alliances, etc. These are all actually useful. You can trade with counttries you have trade agreements with, and actually invoke alliances to have your ally attack your enemy (and the nation will actually do it!)
You can also demand gold, or that a country become your vassal, or a province. This actually happens ingame between the AI, and seems logical.

There are also a lot of tools to see who owns what, who's allied to whom, relationships between countries, etc.

If this game had the 3d map of rome-or just the 3d/2d battlefield map of MTW, it would be excellent. The sprite combat holds it back, however. Even if it just had a 2d campaign map, but had a 3d battle map that reflected where you were fighting, along with MTW sprites and battles, I'd buy it right away. Unfortunately, it doesn't.

It seems like a good buy if your more interested in the strategy of a campaign than the battles.

Crazed Rabbit

[Big_John]

if someone combined some of the diplomacy/campaign elements of knights of honor and crusader kings with the tactical elements of mtw (w/ 3d rtw graphics engine), we'd have the best game ever. the build/battle AI in KoH is ridiculously bad. the diplomacy is good, but being limited to 9 knights is just stupid. the royal court should be expanded greatly, and $ should be the limiting factor to how many armies/spies/etc you can employ. the real-time camp map is fantastic; the turn based nature of the TW games stands out as a detriment in comparison.

though crusader kings goes overboard with its dynasty simulation stuff, the one in KoH is a little bare. a compromise between the two would be good. while i like the cartoonish style, for my tastes a medieval europe game should be a little darker in tone (like mtw was).

[Macedon]

I believe the developers are from Bulgaria, Black Sea Studios...Welcome to them.

A medieval europe game should be a little darker in tone (like mtw was).

Yeeeessssss......

[lancer63]

Never played HOI, EU or any other of those games. I liked the strategic part of the demo, much deeper than TW. Nice change. Will buy it if I find it.

[Ghost of Rom]

If this game had the 3d map of rome-or just the 3d/2d battlefield map of MTW, it would be excellent. The sprite combat holds it back, however. Even if it just had a 2d campaign map, but had a 3d battle map that reflected where you were fighting, along with MTW sprites and battles, I'd buy it right away. Unfortunately, it doesn't.

Totalwar (MTW, Shogun) has the best battles of any of these type games by far. But I have never really enjoyed the strategic map tech tree portion of the game. The AI almost always attaks with just enough troops to lose to yours. There is never really that one Country that can really and truly threaten mine. You have more to fear from rebellions than the other factions.
I surely dont want to face a perfect AI but it would be more fun if the AI was capable of winning or at least attempting to.

Think I'll check out Cossacks II. It looks promising.

[jeffreyLebowski]

i just picked this game up a couple days ago. i'm really enjoying it. the battles in KoH are nothing to write home about, but the strategic portion (where you spend 99% of your time in KoH) completely DESTROYS medeival and rome. combat as a whole is treated much more realistically in KoH... you usually only have 1 or 2 armies in the field on campaign at a time, and they require rest and supplies or they'll be forced to turn back. engaging in battle in KoH is a big deal, unlike RTW, where you often have 89431 battles per turn. the diplomatic model is amazingly detailed and very, very well done. the AI is also very diplomatically active, and fairly cunning.

i'd give KoH a solid 8.5/10 easily, and that's really only knocking off for the sub-par tactical engine. it's not that big of a deal, honestly, because most of the time you'll find that you'll simply monitor the report of your marshal as to how the battle is going, and rarely command it yourself. i'd highly recommend this game to anyone who likes empire management games, or anyone who was dreadfully disappointed in RTW's campaign map.

[Mongoose]

if someone combined some of the diplomacy/campaign elements of knights of honor and crusader kings with the tactical elements of mtw (w/ 3d rtw graphics engine), we'd have the best game ever. the build/battle AI in KoH is ridiculously bad. the diplomacy is good, but being limited to 9 knights is just stupid. the royal court should be expanded greatly, and $ should be the limiting factor to how many armies/spies/etc you can employ. the real-time camp map is fantastic; the turn based nature of the TW games stands out as a detriment in comparison.

though crusader kings goes overboard with its dynasty simulation stuff, the one in KoH is a little bare. a compromise between the two would be good. while i like the cartoonish style, for my tastes a medieval europe game should be a little darker in tone (like mtw was).

By "ridiculously bad" You mean slightly better then RTW, right?

[Ldvs]

Anyway, I´m just back from GAME and the game is about to hit the stores in Europe and apparently has already been released in the US

You will certainly be surprised but this game has already been released in Europe for over half a year in Europe.
I was seeking an alternative to RTW, thus I bought KOH one month ago. It takes some time before you master all the parts of the game (fortunately, nothing comparable to HOI ). The beginning of a campaign is really challenging, especially if you incarnate a king/lord/earl of a small country. After you reach a certain stage, though, I'm more doubtful.

I think Crazed Rabbit mentioned all the plusses of the game. However, on the minus side, I'd say that there's a problem of difficulty level. You'll have to restrain yourself often if you don't want your game to become dull. For example, never to carry siege weaponry besides trebuchets otherwise your ballistas and catapults will get the job done for you in the blink of an eye.

Nevertheless, KOH is more moddable than RTW, which enables you to alter the game according to your linking. There are also four good mods there: http://forum.sunflowers.de/forumdisplay.php?f=27
(GoG; Holy Rome; Aesenius's mod and "Mod Hard")

Overall, out of 10 I'll give it 7.