Bugs and Patch Changes v1.5

[Red Harvest]

Darn, the memory leak is still there. It takes much longer to become a problem...but it still does the same basic thing as it accumulates. CA gets partial credit. They found something...but they didn't find it all.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
One less reason to patch.
.

[player1]

Upon inspecting some VnV files, I've noticed that basic RTW got some of the fixes I previously added only to BI version of bug-fixer.

Also, I think many of bug-fixer fixes were added in BI version too.

At first glance I would say at least half of them.
Maybe something is missing, but it would take a long research time.

Anyway, we consider trait system much less buggy then before.

[C-F]

Upon inspecting some VnV files, I've noticed that basic RTW got some of the fixes I previously added only to BI version of bug-fixer.

Also, I think many of bug-fixer fixes were added in BI version too.

At first glance I would say at least half of them.
Maybe something is missing, but it would take a long research time.

Anyway, we consider trait system much less buggy then before.

Well, this one is back...



I think you're right - there will not be an easy solution for 'the other half'...

[Red Harvest]

Well, this one is back...



I think you're right - there will not be an easy solution for 'the other half'...

That's not a trait. That is poor editing by CA on the temples. Why they even have higher level horse temples is beyond me. Rome isn't allowed to build the base level temples but can build higher level versions? And why in the world should Rome get huge bonuses for their already overly powerful cavalry.

It's easy enough to edit out...been doing it for awhile.

[C-F]

....

It's easy enough to edit out...been doing it for awhile.

Well, thats why I liked the bugfixer - I didn't (can't) have to...

[Red Harvest]

Well, thats why I liked the bugfixer - I didn't (can't) have to...

It is ironic that back when we were discussing unit stats problems, player1 didn't seem to think much of anything was in error and defended every oddity in the stats and build queue. I gave up trying to reason with him on that, and did my own edits. Then he came out with "bug fixer." I haven't really looked at it.

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

Well, this one is back...



I think you're right - there will not be an easy solution for 'the other half'...

You think this is bad, look what I've got to sort out:

Random Temples etc

[C-F]

You think this is bad, look what I've got to sort out:

Random Temples etc

Seems to be on your end - checked mine (just Germania) and its only showing the 3 orig. shrines...

My setup was RTW1.3/BI1.4 with Bugfixer2.06 and Bosook's(sp?) unlock all factions on top ~ figuered reinstall if it doesn't work ~ but it did... all factions are still unlocked and I guess Player1's fixes were just 'overwritten'... to what extend - I have no idea...

I'd try a reinstall if I were you... good luck

[edit] actually, on second thought, I'd redownload the patch before applying it [/edit]

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

Seems to be on your end - checked mine (just Germania) and its only showing the 3 orig. shrines...

My setup was RTW1.3/BI1.4 with Bugfixer2.06 and Bosook's(sp?) unlock all factions on top ~ figuered reinstall if it doesn't work ~ but it did... all factions are still unlocked and I guess Player1's fixes were just 'overwritten'... to what extend - I have no idea...

I'd try a reinstall if I were you... good luck

[edit] actually, on second thought, I'd redownload the patch before applying it [/edit]

It really is a joke, I'll have to spend a while trying to figure out what is causing these random temples to appear.

Its definitley my own modded copy of export_decr_buildings.txt which is causing the problems, might try copying a vanilla version over the top, although I'm not expecting anything to change.

I'd originally reinstalled RTW before patching upto v1.5, what I tend to do is replace selected text files with my own modded versions.

The temple of horse issue seems relatively straightfoward to fix, here is the vanilla RTW v1.5 code from export_descr_buildings:

building temple_of_horse
 {
     levels temple_of_horse_shrine temple_of_horse_temple temple_of_horse_large_temple temple_of_horse_awesome_temple temple_of_horse_pantheon 
     {
         temple_of_horse_shrine requires factions { spain, gauls, } 
         {
             capability
             {
                 happiness_bonus bonus 1
                 recruits_exp_bonus bonus 1
             }
             construction  1 
             cost  400 
             settlement_min town
             upgrades
             {
                 temple_of_horse_temple
             }
         }
         temple_of_horse_temple requires factions { spain, gauls, } 
         {
             capability
             {
                 happiness_bonus bonus 2
                 recruits_exp_bonus bonus 2
             }
             construction  2 
             cost  800 
             settlement_min large_town
             upgrades
             {
                 temple_of_horse_large_temple
             }
         }
         temple_of_horse_large_temple requires factions { spain, gauls, } 
         {
             capability
             {
                 happiness_bonus bonus 3
                 recruits_exp_bonus bonus 3
             }
             construction  3 
             cost  1600 
             settlement_min city
             upgrades
             {
                 temple_of_horse_awesome_temple
             }
         }
         temple_of_horse_awesome_temple 
         {
             capability
             {
                 happiness_bonus bonus 4
                 recruits_exp_bonus bonus 4
             }
             construction  5 
             cost  3200 
             settlement_min large_city
             upgrades
             {
                 temple_of_horse_pantheon
             }
         }
         temple_of_horse_pantheon 
         {
             capability
             {
                 happiness_bonus bonus 5
                 recruits_exp_bonus bonus 5
             }
             construction  6 
             cost  6400 
             settlement_min huge_city
             upgrades
             {
             }
         }
     }
     plugins 
     {
     }
 }

All you need to delete is the extra levels, which in this case are temple_of_horse_awesome_temple and temple_of_horse_pantheon, as well as the 2 unrequired entries.

[player1]

Fix from old bugfixer 2.06

        temple_of_horse_awesome_temple requires factions { }
        {
            capability
            {
                happiness_bonus bonus 4
                recruits_exp_bonus bonus 4
            }
            construction  5 
            cost  3200 
            settlement_min large_city
            upgrades
            {
                temple_of_horse_pantheon
            }
        }
        temple_of_horse_pantheon requires factions { }
        {
            capability
            {
                happiness_bonus bonus 5
                recruits_exp_bonus bonus 5
            }
            construction  6 
            cost  6400 
            settlement_min huge_city
            upgrades
            {
            }
        }

and explanation:
Graphic glitch with Awesome Temple of Epona and Pantheon

It seems that in 1.3 version of imperial campaign, developers decided to remove the feature that romans can build Epona temples if barbarians already built Circle of Epona. The problem is that they haven't removed feature well, making it in fact available to all factions, which actually gives the graphic glitch in building browser. To fix this I added empty "requires" tag in the line for these buildings, making them disabled for all factions as intended.

[player1]

Some of the models are still messed up in 1.6
Some due to bad textures and models, and some other just because battle_model.txt wasn't updated in patch at all.

From first group, there is still armless Praetorians, or Choosen Axemen that grab axes in different way at different unit models (lods).

Also Paladin Bodyguards still have messed up right side of brestplace (lod2).

I won't comment those bugs due to unapdated battle_models.txt, these are mosty old issues fixed with bug-fixer.

[Pode]

Slave resource no longer adds to population growth rate in any town. Haven't tested whether slaves are still sent to governed towns properly or not. I never played around with 1.3, so this may have been broken/changed in that patch instead of 1.5. Don't know if it's intentional design change or bug, so I posted it here.

[Red Harvest]

Are naval battles more decisive on average now? I've been noticing what appear to be perhaps twice as many casualties per naval encounter...not sure if this is a fluke or what.

[Red Harvest]

Slave resource no longer adds to population growth rate in any town. Haven't tested whether slaves are still sent to governed towns properly or not. I never played around with 1.3, so this may have been broken/changed in that patch instead of 1.5. Don't know if it's intentional design change or bug, so I posted it here.

Pode, you are right, slavery isn't working properly. In fact, it has several accounting errors as I'll demonstrate. (I think it might have been this way in 1.3 as well. People were discussing it, but I wasn't paying attention.)

Try taking Segesta as the Julii. If you enlsave, 450 slaves enter the pool. Immediately, on that same turn, your population in your other two cities grow by 112 each. Leaving a residual of 226 slaves for future depletion/growth.

You will now show a 1.5% boost to population from slaves in Segesta, but when you do the math, you always come up this same 1.5% short in actual growth.

When you build a governor's house and a road, you will get 0.5% additional in Arretium, but each time you check you come up 0.5% short as well.

You should be depleting the slave pool of 226 at a rate of 27+ per turn (after the first two turns at 6 and 6 before the road is complete.) So it should take 10 turns to deplete them. Instead it takes about 18 turns for the icon to disappear...which would be about right IF there were 450 in the pool and IF they actually were going into the population.

So in summary, you only get the initial slave distribution, regardless of roads. After that you never get what is claimed on the growth graphic for slaves.

[professorspatula]

Crivvens! You sure put a lot of effort into finding faults in various aspects of the game. If only CA did the same.

[Barbarossa82]

Crivvens! You sure put a lot of effort into finding faults in various aspects of the game. If only CA did the same.

Yeah, and Red Harvest, Player1, yourself and others are picking these out in the space of a week or so FOR FREE. Whatever they pay the QA people over at CA or Sega (not sure who's handling it), it's probably a little too much.

[Germanvs]

Try taking Segesta as the Julii. If you enslave, 450 slaves enter the pool. Immediately, on that same turn, your population in your other two cities grow by 112 each. Leaving a residual of 226 slaves for future depletion/growth.

The other 226 go to Rome (see the manual, and I can confirm this actually happens). I don't think the bonus 1/2 % extra growth that is indicated have anything to do with the original population of the town conquered.

The bonus city-growth due to slave trading is broken even in 1.2, as far as I could tell (see this post , the rest of the thread is also noteworthy).



If I knew how, I would instal a clean RTW (next to my existing one) and see if 1.0 is broken as well. I would not be surprised the whole thing never worked at all.

[Red Harvest]

Germanvs,

Thanks, I just found your posts on this issue in Ludus Magna. (Funny as I did a Segesta test about 48 hours *after* you did.) I didn't realize Rome was getting the other half of the slaves. Manual, who is that? I don't know no stinking manual! Actually, I still can't find this in the manual, although I believe you.

Seems odd to me that the resource would run out when the 450 figure is hit...

[gardibolt]

I still have an unpatched 1.0 running, so if you tell me what to do I can try it out and report results.

[player1]

From original 1.0 RTW readme:

Population Enslavement
After a settlement is conquered, and "enslavement" is chosen as the option to occupy the settlement. Roman factions and Roman allied factions will have 25% of the population go to the capital of the senate faction.

[Red Harvest]

From original 1.0 RTW readme:

That would explain why I can't find it in the manual, it's in the read me.

[Germanvs]

I still have an unpatched 1.0 running, so if you tell me what to do I can try it out and report results.

Start a campaign as the Julii.
Get the Governor out of Ariminum
Get one of the stacks allready near Segesta to attack and conquer the place.
Enslave the population.
Build Gov. house.
End Turn.
Build road in Segesta.
Hit 'end turn' 5 times.

Report population both in Segesta AND Arretium.
Report as well if you got the Slave-Trader Ancillery (the guy that is supposed to give extra slaves in a city with slave-trade present)

Thanks :b

[Garvanko]

Dunno if its a bug, but I found it strange. Ive just patched to 1.5, and in my Scipii campaign, I set micromanagement to let the AI manage taxes only (as I do sometimes when I can't manage everything), and automatically all taxes were set to the low or normal, while public order rocketed to 130% or more (sometimes even 220%) in most of my cities.

Is it just me, or didn't the AI always manage taxes so as to make as much money as possible while keeping public order i.e. around 90%, rather than keeping the population as happy as possible as is happening now?

[gardibolt]

Start a campaign as the Julii.
Get the Governor out of Ariminum
Get one of the stacks allready near Segesta to attack and conquer the place.
Enslave the population.
Build Gov. house.
End Turn.
Build road in Segesta.
Hit 'end turn' 5 times.

Report population both in Segesta AND Arretium.
Report as well if you got the Slave-Trader Ancillery (the guy that is supposed to give extra slaves in a city with slave-trade present)

Thanks :b

Do I use the Governor from Ariminium in the stack to conquer Segesta, or just let him sit in the countryside?

[Red Harvest]

Do I use the Governor from Ariminium in the stack to conquer Segesta, or just let him sit in the countryside?

You don't need him, you've got two other small stacks standing there with family members. Either one of them will suffice.

[gardibolt]

OK, I ran four tests as described above in unpatched, unmodded 1.0 vanilla RTW. In all four, the populations were as follows:

Segesta: 492
Arretium: 4644
Ariminium: 3941

The shackles appeared every time, but I never got the Slave Trader. The first and fourth tests, I got no retainer. Test 2, I got the Body Slave. Test 3, I got the Exotic Slave.
I see from the Ludus Magna thread that you were ending up in Winter 267, which is 6 End Turns as far as I can tell. In Winter 267, the populations are as follows:

Segesta: 499
Arretium: 4714
Ariminium: 4020

Does that help? It looks like in 1.5 the Arretium pop is getting some kind of major boost from something.

For comparison's sake, I also ran exactly the same steps, except occupying and exterminating in Segesta in the 1.0 program.

Occupy:
Segesta: 985 in end turn 5/1000 in end turn 6 (winter 267)
Arretium: 4461/4528
Ariminium: 3941/4020

Exterminate:
Segesta: 436/443
Arretium: 4461/4528
Ariminium: 3941/4020

[Germanvs]

Thanks.

Perhaps the base farming level has been raised from V1.0?

Base farming in 1.5 is (Summer 270 turn):
2% (4 grain icons) for Segesta
3% (7 grain + 1 farm - 2 squalor) for Arretium)
(Ariminum is 3% as well, same fractions as Arretium)

Nevertheless, I think it is save to assume the slave bonus for city-growth is broken in 1,0 as well

I had a slave-trader once in a test, but that did not affect the outcome at all.

[Red Harvest]

You really need the growth percentages to interpret (total shown, and slave % shown), as the values could differ between versions. Wasn't the province to province grain bonus broken in 1.0? I remember some comments about it but I never looked into it.

Also descr_strat has changed since 1.0 IIRC. So the starting populations might even differ.

[Red Harvest]

I don't think the bonus 1/2 % extra growth that is indicated have anything to do with the original population of the town conquered.

You are correct. It appears that the slave resource lasts 10 years, then expires. I did a quick test in Parthia.