Hard game

[|OCS|Virus]

Man this is a hard game, I've owned this game for...what maybe four years? Still havn't beaten it once! Well, I should say once without cheating, heh heh. That is on the easiest setting, usually I will just end up starting a new game or throwing in the towel early. I'm not looking for advice, I just want to know if I suck at this game more than others, how often do you actually beat the game?

[matteus the inbred]

almost never, mainly because I never finish games either! after a while, once you've fought your way out of your starting position and conquered quite a lot of land, most factions become very similar and I get bored.
I was the same with STW, got bored once about half the map was mine.
I've beaten VI on partial victory a couple of times. Usually play on Hard, GA... rarely get past 1270ish cos I always start a new game and the old one rots away in the SaveGame section until I look at it again, decide I can't remmeber what I was doing and delete it...!

[Banquo's Ghost]

It certainly isn't an easy game, which is the appeal to me! I get thumped about 50% of the time.

It is possible to win quite easily by taking advantage of known issues with the AI. I would guess from what you wrote that you don't like this approach either. The toughest part of the game is the Early period, or the first few years of any starting period. If you can get through the early stages without getting discouraged, you should be OK.

Success at first also depends on which faction you choose. Although the game rates them as Hard, I think the Spanish are the easiest to start with - good provinces and easy to defend.

[Matty]

I never lose.

[BAD]

I never lose.

*gives you a gold star*

[Matty]

But I'm still too chicken to get my ass handed to me on MP.....

[NodachiSam]

Yea this game is usually a challenge. Sometimes the game takes perseverence to get you through. Even with a lot of land your empire can be ruined by a mixture of misfortune. Weak heirs and civil wars mixed with decent foes can be dangerous. Usually after a certain point you know victory is inevitable. I always play it out from that point unless I am happy with 60%

[Ciaran]

The starting period is the hardest part, depending on your faction. Once you have established decent border armies, a couple of fleets and have built a working economic infrastructure about the only thing that can really threaten you is a Civil War, or the Golden Horde invasion, if you´re playing with one of the eastern factions.
I suppose if you´re playing as a Muslim faction Crusades directed at you can provide a challenge, too, as they come with a lot and quite high-quality troops.

[caravel]

Crusades are usually alot of fragmented units such as peasants and UM and a few Order Foot Soldiers and maybe Order Knights, plus alot of slav warriors and javelins that they pick up on their journey east. They rarely pose much of a threat and can be regarded as "training". In one memorable campaign as the Turks I defeated 2 french crusades that were sent at Constantinople and watched the french desintegrate into civil war. The following year an Italian and German crusade were declared and they too were sent home. Crusades are not as dangerous as people assume. It looks bad having that huge army und the cross heading towards you, but when you actually face them they're not much of a threat, especially in the desert.

[Ciaran]

I didn´t know, I´ve only played with Catholics so far (I love the clanking sound of my marching army ;) ). I though Crusades were more of a challenge when you´re on the receiving end, what with the high-morale, heavily armoured Order Knights and foot soldiers.

[MuseRulez]

It looks bad having that huge army und the cross heading towards you, but when you actually face them they're not much of a threat, especially in the desert.

True, the AI doesn't handle crusades very good. In most mods it's a little beter because the AI builds less low-level junk units like peasants or militia. Personally I don't use crusades very much, just for GA points. Most of the time I just make some huge stacks and kill everything in my path , not very efficient but alot of fun

[Ironside]

Haven't lost one in years, except when shifting factions for fun. Some factions does require speciffic openings though.

[gaijinalways]

The beginning for any faction is crucial. Suggest playing the English first, as they are easier and you can set yourself up and expand into the French territory. Also, are you having difficulty running your economy, or with battles, deciding what is most useful to build (which will affect your economy and troop building)? There are many threads here to help you with all these issues, take heart, I haven't played recently, but I haven't won with all the factions (finished only the English, French, Spanish, and the Byzantines if memory serves me right). I remember trying the Turks several times, got my head handed to me a few times. Also remember trying the Germans once, ouch, tough going.

[Cowhead418]

I have only lost once as the English. I foolishly invaded Wales with my King and both his heirs. I had decided to charge up the hill with all my cavalry, which proceeded to be shot down by the Longbowmen. After the battle I saw that both my heirs had been slain, and a few years later my king died of natural causes, causing me to lose my campaign.

However, there have been several campaigns I have given up on relatively early where I had failed to establish a solid position and was next to an enemy much stronger than me. These occur mainly with the one province factions. But I have also had a failed XL German campaign. That was quite a challenge - surrounded by seven hostile factions.

[Budwise]

How often do you actually beat the game?

Quite often to be honest. WITHOUT CHEATING, if you are having trouble play as English on Early and after taking over the British Isles and some of France. When you are done build ships. Build enough ships to put two in every sea mass and then you will have more money than god. Then take over the easy pickings like Sweden or some island, watch who you go to war with when you attack though. With that being done, mass tech and when it becomes High Period, either build Billmen and Longbowmen or Chiv. Knights if you tech right.

Even knowing I have beat to 100% even without doing the massive fleet technique I usually quit right after 60%

[Ciaran]

[...] But I have also had a failed XL German campaign. That was quite a challenge - surrounded by seven hostile factions.

Yes, that´s a real tough one. Too much land to be considered small (and therefore an acceptable ally), low loyalty in most of the provinces, bad infrastructure, no chance at all to build up a navy and a couple of greedy factions at the doorstep. It took me three tries for one to sucessfully last beyond the first fifty years, and that only because I got extremely lucky with the French suffering a civil war AND capturing Genoa in a do-or-die attempt.

[Vladimir]

How do you loose MTW? I suppose if you let your royal line die off it could happen (to me once). This game’s real simple; just remember MTW isn’t RTW and you’ll win half your battles. When I first started playing I tried taking spearmen against AUMs then I discovered Jinettes. I haven’t lost with the Spanish yet! This game’s real easy. Just use your head, tactics, and develop your infrastructure. The more hilly maps might be a problem attacking but even on flat terrain I can normally beat 4-1 odds defending. Loose this game? If I did, I’d have to order another copy.

Yes, that´s a real tough one. Too much land to be considered small (and therefore an acceptable ally), low loyalty in most of the provinces, bad infrastructure, no chance at all to build up a navy and a couple of greedy factions at the doorstep. It took me three tries for one to sucessfully last beyond the first fifty years, and that only because I got extremely lucky with the French suffering a civil war AND capturing Genoa in a do-or-die attempt.

Worst thing about the HRE is the micromanagement in XL. More provences means slower deployments. The thing I've found playing them (or the English) is to take out the French Royal line fast! Eliminating single provence factions and using the iron and hills to your advantage is a must too.

[bretwalda]

I never lose.

Take Armenians in XL Mod, on Early or High, Expert and see if you still never lose

[Peasant Phill]

I never lose.

What's the fun if the AI can't challenge you. I started playing XL just because I only lost when I didn't care.

[Weebeast]

I never 100% conquered the whole map even when I won the game. Now I'm pretty good on the strategic map on normal or hard(as Byzantine) but I don't play to win anymore. I'll never ever conquer the whole map I guess lol.

I won pretty often on GA or 60% thing until I set my game-end date to later dates...

True, the AI doesn't handle crusades very good.

I somewhat agree with that knowing that AI sends crusade without considering chance success but sometimes AI can make a crusade seems like two crusades.

[NodachiSam]

Getting to 100% can be pretty boring. I wish the option was there to sieze victory after 60%. Sometimes at that point I simply won't be happy with what I've done but going all the way to 100% isn't great all the time either. A "sieze victory" button that could show up underneath the end turn button after you got 60% would've been greatly appreciated. They could give the total victory ending for 90% and up perhaps.

[Csargo]

You know come to think of it I dont think I've ever beat the whole game either it usually gets annoying and boring or I have half the map and one other faction has the other half and I dont fell like duking it out to the death just gets too boring.

[HopAlongBunny]

I usually stop at 75% of the map. A few times I did 100%.

The game still has surprises for me My last game reached 75% without taking any of Africa. It took until late 1200 to establish an untouchable fleet. For an English campaign, both of these are pretty odd.

At this point the game is over. I might go for 100%...just to take all the stuff I usually do.

[Matty]

What's the fun if the AI can't challenge you. I started playing XL just because I only lost when I didn't care.

Yeah, I play XL too - also BKB but the kerns don't come out right so I swapped back. I either choose a difficult faction or potter about waiting for one of the other AI countries to become dominant and then go to war with them. I also role play a bit (especially with limiting overpowered agents) and don't rush. Admittedly, I'm champing at the bit somewhat for the new game...

[Odin]

I have beat the game once in the years I have played it. I now play on the hardest level with the XL mod and its about 50-50 whether I survive or drop the game after the mongols peeter out.

There are some good challenges to be had though, Rebuilding the Byz empire in High, or Keeping the armenians alive through a whole game.

[Vladimir]

There are some good challenges to be had though, ...keeping the armenians alive through a whole game.

My favorite small faction. A true challenge and a rewarding experience.

[bretwalda]

My favorite small faction. A true challenge and a rewarding experience.

I am really curious how to do it, but I do not want to steer this topic off-course, so I started a new thread on this.

[Asmodai]

I never lose.

That was good

Try play on Expert. HRE in XL mod. Early off coures. Have fun. I played several(about 10-12 times) HRE and managed to win about in 8 games. I considering that i`m good M:TW player. But i never tell to anybode, that i never loose.

I remember Polish campaign, when i had to save couple of times cos my 60 years old king was dying in the next turn, and having no royal blood commanders i simply loosed that game. My only heir have 3 years so i saved that game many times. Very frustrating. King eventually survive long enough, when the heir was old enough to preserve royal line. But i do not write how much savegames and reloads was needed.

Also, playing HRE on Expert on XL mod i ended my game with one province, broken army, having no heirs and old fart as king....hopeless...

Danes on Expert (Vanilla only!) in early is quite a challenge too.

I once played on XL mod with Russians in Early....good lord, i must played every battle. Every soldier count. Lack of money was big problem and my core troop was a peasand with axe (woodsman tactics was greatly mastered by that campaign), and possesing heaps of druzina cavalry is simply a myth. Cannot afford and upkeep large numbers of them....


But i agree, that from the start, game is hard and offer quite good entertainment. But after consolidation of the empire/kingdom, there is nothing to do with enemies. They are simply too weak/poor/advanced to be any match to our armies.