Imperial Diet

[econ21]

Prinz Henry: The Fourth Diet is now open for the tabling of Edicts. The deadline for the submission and seconding of Edicts is Sunday 11am (UK time). There will then be a 24 hour period of voting.

[econ21]

Prince Henry: I have heard word from the Chancellor that the Pope has ordered us to cease hostilities against Milan and Venice, or risk excommunication. This is a very serious development, although not an entirely unexpected one. It is quite unjust that we should be so censured when we were the innocent victims of the Lombard League's unprovoked aggression. However, we must live with the world as it is, not as we would like it to be. I believe it is prudent, at this time, to abide by the Pope's injunctions. I propose:

Edict 4.1: The Empire will refrain from any action against Milan that will violate the Pope's order and risk excommunication.

Edict 4.2: The Empire will refrain from any action against Venice that will violate the Pope's order and risk excommunication.

Electors, I do not propose these motions out of timidity or cowardice, but out of prudence. We are stretched thin. We fight mainly with militia - even in my own castle, I am sending unarmoured men out to battle with Italians wearing chain and carrying pavisses. We need time to consolidate and regroup. We must of course vigorously defend Innsbruck, Vienna and other threatened settlements. But only so far as we do not violate the Pope's order.

Friends, I recently met a Russian traveller. He was a godless subversive man and brutally inquired for me: How many divisions has the Pope? The ignorant fool did not know that the Papal army is in fact quite formiddable. But more to the point, Catholic France, Denmark and Hungary all stand on our borders. If we are excommunicated, they may see our many provinces as easy pickings and raise powerful crusades against us. Why, even puny Poland has used the attack by Venice as an excuse to chance her arm against us.

I do not disagree with the Duke of Bavaria - in the long run, we must take up court in Rome. And it is likely, this will likely to conflict with the Papacy. But now is not the time.

Indeed, I would like to use the Papacy against our aggressors. Let us raise our standing with the Pope, so that if they rashly persist in attacking us, they will be excommunicated. Such an event would, of course, free us to strike against them unhindered.

Edict 4.3: The Empire will use gifts of florins to raise our standing with the Pope, so that it exceeds the standing of our enemies and so that we are able to call a future crusade.

[Kagemusha]

Third Elector of Swabia opens up a scroll and starts reading:

"Mein Kaiser,fellow Electors.
I shall propose following edicts in current situation:

Edict 4.4 "Reich contacts Milan,in order to create ceasefire and end the war. No land will be returned to Milanese in any case.

Edict 4.5 "Reich sieges Venice as soon as possible,but not assault her.We need to fight a deciseve battle with Venice somewhere,since our thinned forces cant handle each and every roaming Venetian army across Austria and Italy.

Edict 4.6 "Reich sieges Magdeburg immediately,but do not assault the castle. Again,lets decide where to fight and not give the decision to Polish.

Also i would like to second my Lords,Prinz Henrys edicts 4.1 and 4.2. Those are wise words mein Prinz!"

The Swabian elector sits back on his seat.

[TinCow]

Prior to this session, there was much evidence that Gregory is behind these attacks on our borders. Now that he has threatened to excommunicate us if we do not cease the assault on Milan or Vienna, his influence in the matter is beyond question. The threat against Milan is understandable from a Pope, if wrong, but the threat to stop the war against Venice is unspeakably obscene! Venice breaks their alliance, declares war on us, besieges the capital of the House of Austria, and we are the ones reprimanded?!

There is wisdom in keeping the Reich from gaining even more enemies, but Prinz Henry's proposal to give money to Gregory is insulting to the Reich and nothing more than pure insanity! Prudence is a worthy virtue, but Edict 4.3 would be treason if it had been proposed by someone other than the heir to the throne! Perhaps I should propose to give florins Venice and Poland to thank them for betraying us. Would that make me worthy of being the next Kaiser?

[AussieGiant]

Standing rather abruptly the 2nd Elector begins

Well I'm more than happy to take that challenge Mandorf!!

I second Edicts 4.1, 4.2 and of course 4.3

It not so much a matter of faith but of reality.

Being excommunicated WILL allow other nations to use Crusades against us.

Considering our military is under staffed and under developed we must consolidate and we can't do that defending against the entire Christian world.

[lilirishman1986]

Our empire must deal with the strongest threats to our borders and currently Milan is a toothless tiger. I second

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

edict 4.4

as we have more pressing matters on our mind and borders.

In regards to our other enemies a defensive war is preferred until we have rebuilt our forces.

[lilirishman1986]

*edit* Second edicit 4.4

[Jalf]

I second edicts 4.1, 4.2 and 4.4!
4.3, however, I can not support. We may have enough enemies to last a lifetime, but paying the pope for backstabbing us again and again is only going to show our weakness. If the word spreads that we're bribing our enemies to leave us alone, we'll soon have France and Denmark presenting some gigantic bills as well. And I don't even want to imagine how much Poland will charge to leave us... No, we can not afford to show our weaknesses like this.

While there can be little doubt that the Pope is trying to put us out of business, he nevertheless has to play by the rules. I think it is more than likely that equal warnings have been issued to Venice and Milan. So perhaps we should simply look to our defenses and wait. If they attack, they may be the ones who are excommunicated. And then.....
The elector looks around for a moment
Well, I can see you're with me. It doesn't take much imagination to see what it would mean for us if you enemies were excommunicated...

[Jalf]

Ah, and one more thing. It is about time I put some action behind my earlier suggestion. I hereby propose the following edict:

Edict 4.7: The Reich will hire 500 of the most skilled and well equipped mercenary soldiers available in our lands to reinforce our faltering armies.

With such a boost to our military might, we should be able to defend our lands until we can get some of our militiamen and peasants replaced with proper soldiers of the Empire.

[lilirishman1986]

in regards to Edict 4.7 we should only support the recruitment of mercenary troops at the utmost need by the commanders in the field. That money used for mercenaries might be better used to build our infrastructure so that we may create a stronger professional standing army rather than a temporary stopgap.

[Jalf]

Hah, may I remind you we just suffered a defeat? One of our cities is under siege, and enemy armies are everywhere around us? No, I think we need a temporary stopgap more than anything! given a few years, our infrastructure will be in very good shape indeed, and we will be able to recruit professional soldiers ourselves. But you try asking Poland to come back in 8 years... We can't afford to sit back and wait for that. We need troops NOW!

Especially given our standing with the Pope, we must expect more encounters with the nations that follow him. Again, these will not kindly wait while we build our cities and prepare a decade-long campaign to recruit decent troops on our own.

[TinCow]

I fully support the motive of the Fifth Elector of Franconia in proposing Edict 4.7, but I cannot support the Edict as it stands. It would certainly be wise to recruit mercenaries for the time being to provide a more professional core to some of our weakened armies. However, Edict 4.7 requires a very large number of mercenaries at great cost to the Reich. I would certainly support the hiring of 500 or even 1000 mercenaries if they were needed for security, but I am not convinced that the Diet is in a position to decide that they are needed. This is something that only the commanders of our armies can know and even then it is unlikely that they will be able to predict their requirements beyond the immediate battles that they are faced with.

Thus, I fully support the hiring of mercenaries, but would prefer the exact number and type to be hired were left to the Chancellor, as he is in the best position to decide on such matters. Accordingly, I will not support Edict 4.7 as it stands, but I will let it be known that I will actively oppose any Edict which attempts to limit the amount of mercenaries that the Chancellor may hire.