Kung Fu Mafia [Concluded]

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

sapi, you know, almost totally, that I'm certainly not mafia. I was protecting Pannonion one night, with you, and the kills were exactly the same as always.

[sapi]

There's two kills per night, and three mafia.

That proves nothing, unfortunately.

If you're innocent, you won't object to the testing of your role.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

May I ask how you plan to do this testing of my role? I would be more than happy to agree, but I see no way of this being possible - I only watch the shop for half the night - the other half I'm sleeping.

Anyhow sapi, I managed to find out what you bought all the way back on Night II. You purchased a Small Vial which, supposedly, contains antidote although it could also contain weak or strong poisons.

[Orb]

Omanes, I, for one, don't believe you. This seems disturbingly reminiscent of that time Sasaki The Wolf got hold of Gertgregoor's trust and used his role to exclude him. I think you're either a mafioso desperately trying to save yourself or a mafioso with the help of the real shopwatcher trying to save yourself.

An innocent person does not lynch someone and then want to follow their ideas, after no additional evidence has been brought to the table. Ever.

FOS: OMANES

[Orb]

I think his idea is that someone buys something from the shop and you identify it.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I think his idea is that someone buys something from the shop and you identify it.

I get information on the packages that individuals come out with in terms of size - I can never find out who buys what:
A small vial could be either an Antidote, Weak Poison, or a Deadly Poison.
A small package could contain either some Mystic Herbs, a Prayer Book, a Blow Gun or a Slingshot.
A large package could contain either an Armoured Vest or a Crossbow.

This can help in the working out of who is the mafia, yet I've, sadly, not managed to do any pin-pointing yet. Lynching me will get you guys nowhere, as I have said. It will just make life easy for the mafia by both allowing them to get into the shop without me seeing them and by reducing the number of real monks.

Anyhow, Orb, you seem very eager to pick up on this without showing any signs of doubt. Why might this be - if you look closely there is little or not conclusive evidence other than a simple change of opinion.

[Warluster]

Why is everyone hellbent on lynching omanes.

And don't jump on me because I sound like I am defending Omanes, I am not, but why are you going for one person. COuld someone give me a overview on reasons you think he's the mafia?

[Orb]

First he followed CR's 'list of suspects'. Then, as soon as he could finish off CR, not Ichigo, his initial target, he changed his vote to kill CR with no real reason given. A couple of posts later, with nothing else of note having been said, he then decided that CR was clearly innocent after his death (and before the kill revealed his odd name), actually, and that we should start lynching the people he listed again.

And where have you been all game?

[Warluster]

Hm, so he knocked off CR, but then said was innocent. Okay, thats suspcious!

[Csargo]

Why is everyone hellbent on lynching omanes.

And don't jump on me because I sound like I am defending Omanes, I am not, but why are you going for one person. COuld someone give me a overview on reasons you think he's the mafia?

I won't diginify that with an answer. It would be different if you would have been posting this whole time, but you haven't I think you should be the next to be lynched. If someone can prove Omanes is telling the truth then I'll forgive his prior actions.

[Orb]

I don't think anyone can 'prove' he's telling the truth. I'm fearing a CDTC type coverup, as Moros/gert gave Sasaki his role PM and information to save Sasaki's neck in that game. I believe that Omanes freakish lynch and then repentance are so untownyish that he cannot possibly be innocent.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I can prove it myself - look here. When I refer to "my informant" I refer to myself - it was a tactic which I used to conceal myself from the mafia.
sapi then confessed to this remark - look here.

Does this confirm my innocence to you guys?

[sapi]

No, it doesn't, as that is public knowledge.

Someone who brought something from the shop needs to PM omanes detailing the night and asking what they brought.

If he gets it right, we believe him. If he gets it wrong, we lynch him.

[Orb]

I can prove it myself - look here. When I refer to "my informant" I refer to myself - it was a tactic which I used to conceal myself from the mafia.
sapi then confessed to this remark - look here.

Does this confirm my innocence to you guys?

Do you really think the mafia won't notice that? Also, what if it was an informant, who is now dead, and so can't contradict you?
I drew a parallel to the case in CDTC when a guilty Sasaki was defended and covered for by an innocent detective.

Solid proof is not entirely possible unless we have multiple people buying and even then you could simply have an informant who trusts you, rather than actually being the shopwatcher. yourself.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

If he gets it right, we believe him. If he gets it wrong, we lynch him.

I watch the shop for only half the night - I don't observe it all the time, so I don't know about all visitors throughout the night.

BTW, pevergreen, you didn't visit the shop in my observence time - that night I only saw sapi. He's also the only person who I've seen so far. On Night III I was busy protecting Pannonion so that night I didn't see anybody as I was engaged. Night IV - this night, if I'm correct, I'm still waiting for my PM.

I don't trust Orb, he has just jumped in, asking no questions, and has simply gone along with what you guys have said. Focus on him and you may have an intruder by the hair. Another point in this regard - ByzantineKnight - his starting attitude as we have seen, was dodgy and quite dangerous. Now he's just vanished, why?

[Orb]

Just jumped in asking no questions? You protected someone on one night. That would not make you innocent, nor is there be any guarantee that you actually did so, rather than just saying you had. Yes I have gone along with what others have said, because what others have said is almost definitely, in my mind, correct.

I simply don't believe you're innocent, because of your entirely suspect voting. An innocent does not just lynch someone (changing their vote just as soon as they have the opportunity to finish someone) then change his mind about their guilt before any extra evidence is added. My other suspect is warluster, for being alive with less posts than others who were Wogged.

So now you're saying you're the shopwatcher, but you don't know every visitor? This sounds like a 'I don't have a role, so I'll pretend that it only has a 50% chance of success, so I can pretend not to have seen someone if it's tested.' See Sigurd's fake reveal in Sasaki's first multi-role mafia. Saying that success is uncertain is a very simple, albeit usually effective bluff.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

It is correct that I only have 50% chance of spotting somebody - as does Pannonion monitoring his area - I think he can confirm that if his role is a clone of mine in only one area - the region his watches.

I may be stupid, but I'm not that stupid. I would never false claimed a role and never have done yet in any mafia game. Check my claim in the Midgard Saga and then the final write up for more details on that. I know this won't convince you, but it's always worth a try.

BTW, Orb, sapi was there, sapi helped me protect, sapi can confirm that if he wants to. greaterkhan can do the same too if he wishes. I'm also now completely convinced that you are mafia. Any non-imposter monk would be convinced by that evidence, yet you carry on against me, you keep on trying to point suspicion at me. People, look at Orb, it's clear, at least to me, that he's no friend of the temple.

[sapi]

I can confirm that you were part of a protection group; I cannot confirm whether you are innocent or not, as a mafia would simply join in in name and go off and target someone else.

[Orb]

BTW, Orb, sapi was there, sapi helped me protect, sapi can confirm that if he wants to. greaterkhan can do the same too if he wishes.

If one of you does not send your pm, or sends with incorrect names, there will be no protection. You will not be informed if there is no protection.

So they A) Can't confirm you and B) if there were at the time more than two mafia, as pannonian has claimed, you aren't proved innocent anyway.

I may be stupid, but I'm not that stupid. I would never false claimed a role and never have done yet in any mafia game. Check my claim in the Midgard Saga and then the final write up for more details on that. I know this won't convince you, but it's always worth a try.

Have you ever been Mafia before? Sigurd never claimed a false role until he was mafia at risk of being strung up. His false claim with its '50% chance' led to him being victorious, and the town losing. Claiming a true role once does not make you innocent for all future games.

[Orb]

Oh, and you have never even tried to explain your change in guilt allocation (Ichigo-CR-Ichigo again) and change of vote for the sake of expedience (Ichigo not certain to die, so you take out CR). These are the main charges standing against you. Why haven't you even bothered to rebutt them? and just claimed a fake-looking role to 'prove' you innocence.

Oh, and I poke holes in your claims and provide good parallels, so

Any non-imposter monk would be convinced by that evidence, yet you carry on against me, you keep on trying to point suspicion at me. People, look at Orb, it's clear, at least to me, that he's no friend of the temple.

because I clearly don't agree with you, for stated reasons, which you do not even bother to reply to (generally you just post more information), I must obviously be guilty. MAFIA TACTIC on your part.

I require three things to convince me you're innocent:

1. Pannonian to confirm that a 50% chance is how his role could function. So far, only Seamus has (to my knowledge, I missed out a couple of games, though) used a specific chance for any role's function.
2. At least one new accurate statement about what someone bought.
3. You to provide a damn good reason for your change of mind after the CR lynching. You have provided no real reason for finishing him, or for then believing him again.

[sapi]

As much as I hate to agree with Orb, who I don't trust,

[Orb]

Don't worry, Sapi, I don't trust me either and I have to agree with myself all the time :)

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Have you ever been Mafia before?

Never have I played the role of a member of the mafia scum! If I was to be a mafioso though, I would probably be hiding in the shadows, lurking and just posting every now and then, trying to avoid being noticed. I'm most certainly not acting like that in this game.

I'm still not convinced of your innocence Orb. If I have my way, you'll be throw of a cliff tomorrow into the rocky and fierce sea below, yet I'm more likely to suffer this fate than you are the way you are playing this. Wait until tomorrow, and I will post up who bought what size package the half of the night I was shop watching - the PM often comes late though. If they can confirm that, then you have no choice but to trust me to a certain extent.

[Orb]

So you've never been mafia before? So what's the relevance of your comment about never having forged a role? Usually only the mafia forge roles (CDTC being an exception, due to the sheer complexity of it). You have been relatively out of the way, done very few notably conspicuous things, and made one completely illogical (for a townie) manoeuvre. As soon as people picked up on that and called you into question, you claimed a role. As soon as I pressed you on that and sapi asked for you to be tested, you gave a '50% chance', used in no previous mafia game except CDTC (to my knowledge), as an excuse not to get everyone's details. One of your mafia buddies buys an item, you confirm his item. He says 'wow, it's a miracle, he must be the shopwatcher'. You don't claim to have seen anyone else because of the 50% chance.

And you still can't/won't answer about your odd voting?

We (the town, not including Omanes Alexandrapolites the Mafioso) don't feel the need to spare you for a round and lynch an innocent when you act in a manner which is clearly guilty, and give the mafia another 1/2 kills.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

sapi, has no affilations with me other than through the protection of Pannonion. He is most certainly not my "mafia buddy" and that previous post was not a distraction plot. If you look through the posts you will find that I have voted for sapi multiple times and right now he seems to be on your side to a certain extent. Since when did the mafia work like that - they always work with some form of coordination, even if often it is hidden?

My odd voting was due to something that Pannonion, who I am loyal too, as is sapi, said here. The list was made by Crazed Rabbit so I withdrew my vote and followed Pannonion's advice - killing CR. After that I decided to read through the thread and, oddly I could find nothing large suggesting that CR was mafia - there was much more there to suggest he was town. Henceforth I apologised for my vote and continued with CR's list.

[Orb]

I don't claim that sapi was. I suggest that the real shopwatcher made the enormous mistake of trusting you, telling you about Sapi so you could relay it to the town and getting murdered by you subsequently. I'm guessing he's now dead, so you're claiming his role. I'm claiming that that's probably what you'll do next round.

So you went in blindly on Pannonian's advice, stated no reason, put the final vote on and then looked for evidence?
Smells of expedient Mafioso bandwagon-joining to me.

I don't believe you yet.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I now sincerely regret calling myself an informant to fool the evil mafia consisting of Orb (most definitely) and (possibly) sapi. I should have known that the mafiosos would use it against me - possibly the most innocent fellow of this temple - in the future.

The real shop-watcher is not dead - he's here posting right at you and you know it you stinking mafioso. The more you post, the more I suspect you for the evil deeds occurring in this temple. I know I wont die in this, Orb knows he can get an very easy lynch on me so he won't bother trying to assassinate me and my threat to his mafia supremacy.

BTW, no personal offence is intended, I just think your definitely scummy and the unsuspecting town needs to know about it. Oh yes, why do you think the shop-watcher, a delicate, precise and sensitive role, would trust me automatically right at the start of the game? Also, what makes you think that the shop-watcher is dead. I suggest that as many guys as possible go shopping tonight so, hopefully, I will spot you, and be able to prove my innocence, and, with any look, Orb's guilt.

[TevashSzat]

Omanes, don't even try to make Orb look guilty. Don't know if he is innocent himself but he is alot more than you are. We don't care what role you have, but just killing CR when Sasaki clearly stated that it was 4 to lynch

[Orb]

'I now sincerely regret calling myself an informant to fool the evil mafia consisting of Orb (most definitely) and (possibly) sapi. I should have known that the mafiosos would use it against me - possibly the most innocent fellow of this temple - in the future.'

I'm not using the fact that you claimed to have an informant against you. I'm using the fact that you are doing things indicative of your guilt against you.

Guilty points:

Original action: voted for Ichigo, promoted CR's list. When CR was on his last vote to lynch (highlighted by Sigurd using red letters next to the tally, so a mistake can't really be claimed), he immediately switched vote and killed him.

Then he went back to promoting CR's list and accusing Ichigo.

At the time he gave no reason. Then, when I pressed him about it, he *still* delayed in answering me, presumably to find an excuse. His explanation was along the lines of: 'Pannonian made a post accusing CR. But I went over the thread later and decided he was innocent.'

An innocent doesn't lynch someone before going over the thread and then say that the lynchee was innocent, hoping to get people blaming another hot lynch candidate. Nor does he go over the thread after he's just lynched someone. Every single one of your actions screams 'lynch me please, I'm mafia'.

An innocent goes over the thread, makes a judgement and then casts the vote.

His shopwatcher reveal:
1. As soon as he is considered to be possibly guilty, he threatens to reveal if people start a bandwagon O_o but does not actually reveal. Presumably he's busy fabricating a role, because he does not actually have one to hand, and going over whatever PM he got from the now-dead shopwatcher.
2. Then when the pressure builds he 'reveals'
3. When he is pressed further. He 'reveals' that he has a 50% chance of success. The precise same ploy Sigurd used to win the first multi-role mafia, and granting him the option of selectively ignoring purchases that he doesn't know about.

His other actions:
1. He says that Sapi and GK can verify that he was protecting someone therefore 'proving' his innocence. This would not prove that he's innocent, because there were four mafia according to Pann to start with. They could also not verify that he actually turned up to the protection, as is stated explicitly in the rules. Conclusion: he's clutching at straws to try to bluff the town or hope they don't notice and save his neck.
2. He immediately accuses me and (to a lesser extent) sapi of being mafia, just because I accuse him of being a mafioso and won't accept his non-existent proof of innocence. After I give a list of conditions under which I would consider him innocent, he does not even seek to meet those conditions.
'I now sincerely regret calling myself an informant to fool the evil mafia consisting of Orb (most definitely) and (possibly) sapi. I should have known that the mafiosos would use it against me in the future.'

The mafia would simply kill you anyway if they a) didn't think you were protected much of the time and b) didn't know that you were one of their own.

The plural of mafioso is mafiosi. I draw a parallel to CDTC, in which Moros, an innocent rogue detective, gave Sasaki the Wolf his role PM and results, allowing the latter to fool many, many people.

In this game, the dead can reveal nothing discussed outside the thread. Hence, you were able to take a round of his results and kill him the night after he revealed himself to you with no personal risk.

'I know I wont die in this, Orb knows he can get an very easy lynch on me so he won't bother trying to assassinate me and my threat to his mafia supremacy.'

I'm sure you know you won't die. Because you are mafia. Alternatively you could just be the most mafiaesque townie ever to enter one of these games. I'm personally hoping we can get the lynch on you, just to prove my doubts about town collective intelligence wrong

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Drat, you guys picked the wrong night to visit the store. Nobody entered, damnation must be upon me today - I can't prove my innocence.

Sometimes I wish the mafia could come along and vouch for me - save me from this cursing at your hands.

Do you really think, if I was mafia, I would be stupid enough to make that mistake! I may have pretty poor quality intelligence, but that sheer idiocy, it's even beyond me! The mafia, no matter who they are, would never do that, and you know it. I still believe that you are mafia - blaming Warluster just because he's a little inactive, then blaming me because I make a small mistake in my voting.

I sometimes wish I had vigilante abilities, or at least had kill ability, at least then I could silence your terrible lies and claims contesting my validity.