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Thread: The Right of Democracy
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars:
Which is why a monarchy should not be absolute, and should instead be combined with democracy and a constitution to varying degrees depending on the state in question.
You still haven't explained why a Monarchy is better than an elected official, such as a President, doing the same job.Which is why a monarchy should not be absolute, and should instead be combined with democracy and a constitution to varying degrees depending on the state in question.
Originally Posted by CountArach:
You still haven't explained why a Monarchy is better than an elected official, such as a President, doing the same job.
I don't recall yet having been asked, since the debate as to whether a constitutional monarchy or a republic is better is not the point of this thread at all. I did explain it in the last thread where I was asked, to my recollection.You still haven't explained why a Monarchy is better than an elected official, such as a President, doing the same job.
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars:
I don't recall yet having been asked, since the debate as to whether a constitutional monarchy or a republic is better is not the point of this thread at all. I did explain it in the last thread where I was asked, to my recollection.
Alright then:I don't recall yet having been asked, since the debate as to whether a constitutional monarchy or a republic is better is not the point of this thread at all. I did explain it in the last thread where I was asked, to my recollection.
What makes a Monarch better than a Democratically elected President at fulfilling the rolls you wish it to?
Originally Posted by Bopa:
Yes I agree that poor political philospher has been worn out by progression hasn't he?
Where has all that high-minded Rupublican vigour gone to?
I don't know, but I want it back :(Yes I agree that poor political philospher has been worn out by progression hasn't he?
Where has all that high-minded Rupublican vigour gone to?
Hahah, CA I never realised you were such a romanticist! Do want a powdered wig also?
The fact is Evil Maniac, that a monarchy can never compete with Democracy in allowing men to judge what is best for themselves, and thus is under threat of politically minded men getting rid of it. As history has shown us.
You are not going to give us a Platonic view are you?
The fact is Evil Maniac, that a monarchy can never compete with Democracy in allowing men to judge what is best for themselves, and thus is under threat of politically minded men getting rid of it. As history has shown us.
You are not going to give us a Platonic view are you?
Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar:
Hahah, CA I never realised you were such a romanticist! Do want a powdered wig also?
I think these are a good look Hahah, CA I never realised you were such a romanticist! Do want a powdered wig also?
I <3 Democracy
Originally Posted by SwedishFish:
Then you will have constitutional monarchy, right? Which is what Britain already has......
Yes, a constitutional monarchy. This does not mean the monarch has to be toothless, simply that the monarch does not have absolute rule. An ideal balance can be reached.Then you will have constitutional monarchy, right? Which is what Britain already has......
Originally Posted by CountArach:
What makes a Monarch better than a Democratically elected President at fulfilling the rolls you wish it to?
1) A monarch has been trained from birth to do the job. He has more training than a President.What makes a Monarch better than a Democratically elected President at fulfilling the rolls you wish it to?
2) A monarch brings a sense of tradition with him or her.
3) Tourist money.
4) There is a solid rock that represents your country, and does not change. Look at Thailand.
5) A monarch is non-partisan.
6) It is a diplomatic route made solid by mutual respect and diplomatic relations. See #5.
A monarch also does not mean more cost to the state.
Anyhow, everyone keeps whining about how a constitutional monarchy isn't democratic. A constitutional monarchy is as democratic as the constitution makes it - no more, no less.
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars:
1) A monarch has been trained from birth to do the job. He has more training than a President.
The President is more of a 'real' person than the Monarch then. This gives them a greater ability to empathise with people.1) A monarch has been trained from birth to do the job. He has more training than a President.
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars:
2) A monarch brings a sense of tradition with him or her.
I don't care about Tradition. Tradition means that the State is somewhat inflexible.2) A monarch brings a sense of tradition with him or her.
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars:
3) Tourist money.
When I went to America I took a tour of the White House. The queues were huge.3) Tourist money.
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars:
4) There is a solid rock that represents your country, and does not change. Look at Thailand.
What about when the Monarch dies?4) There is a solid rock that represents your country, and does not change. Look at Thailand.
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars:
5) A monarch is non-partisan.
Alright, this one is a fair point. I'm sure examples of very partisan Monarchs could be found.5) A monarch is non-partisan.
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars:
6) It is a diplomatic route made solid by mutual respect and diplomatic relations. See #5.
I don't understand this one, could you elaborate? If you mean that a Monarchy is likely to lead to more respect between nations, look at what happened at the close of the Victorian period - World War I...6) It is a diplomatic route made solid by mutual respect and diplomatic relations. See #5.
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars:
A monarch also does not mean more cost to the state.
I am not going to put a price on my freedom.A monarch also does not mean more cost to the state.
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars:
Anyhow, everyone keeps whining about how a constitutional monarchy isn't democratic. A constitutional monarchy is as democratic as the constitution makes it - no more, no less.
We aren't whining about the Constitutional Monarchy, we are whining about the Monarchy part of it. You are not electing the highest official in your Government, which by definition makes it undemocratic.Anyhow, everyone keeps whining about how a constitutional monarchy isn't democratic. A constitutional monarchy is as democratic as the constitution makes it - no more, no less.
Originally Posted by CountArach:
The President is more of a 'real' person than the Monarch then. This gives them a greater ability to empathise with people.
That is untrue and you know it. The President is more of a 'real' person than the Monarch then. This gives them a greater ability to empathise with people.
Originally Posted by :
I don't care about Tradition. Tradition means that the State is somewhat inflexible.
Not necessarily. Tradition is the preservation of what gives your country identity.I don't care about Tradition. Tradition means that the State is somewhat inflexible.
Originally Posted by :
When I went to America I took a tour of the White House. The queues were huge.
Perhaps. But you must admit that in the United Kingdom, for example, a monarch seems to hold a certain something that a President could not. The people flock to the pomp and ceremony of a monarch.When I went to America I took a tour of the White House. The queues were huge.
Originally Posted by :
What about when the Monarch dies?
You get a new solid rock to represent your country. Laws of succession can differ - you do not need to pass the throne to the firstborn son, but instead it can go to the most competent child.What about when the Monarch dies?
Originally Posted by :
I don't understand this one, could you elaborate? If you mean that a Monarchy is likely to lead to more respect between nations, look at what happened at the close of the Victorian period - World War I...
For one thing, one of the main aggressors in the First World War was France - a republic. Secondly, when it comes to monarchies, we must look to the future, not the past. Anyone who wants a return to the WWI status quo is a fool - a modern monarchy can be and is something much different. Thirdly, monarchy was one of the most common forms of government of the time, so the likelihood that a monarchy would start a war was much higher than it is now. I don't understand this one, could you elaborate? If you mean that a Monarchy is likely to lead to more respect between nations, look at what happened at the close of the Victorian period - World War I...
Originally Posted by :
I am not going to put a price on my freedom.
It does not, on a practical basis, make you any more or less free.I am not going to put a price on my freedom.
Originally Posted by :
You are not electing the highest official in your Government, which by definition makes it undemocratic.
Incorrect. For one thing, we have many different types of democracy. Secondly, the citizens still have a voice through their elected representatives, who control the actual balance of power in the country, making it democratic.You are not electing the highest official in your Government, which by definition makes it undemocratic.
Originally Posted by SwedishFish:
I don't understand why you would like to have a government where one person can take away your rights in the blink of an eye.
Because they can't. I'm not talking about an absolute monarchy or anything even close to that - I'm talking about a constitutional monarchy where the monarch has a little more power, and where checks and balances exist to both the Parliament and the monarch in the form of each other and a constitution.I don't understand why you would like to have a government where one person can take away your rights in the blink of an eye.
I'm sorry, but how have you proven that such a monarchy is any better than the lot we have now?
It seems worse because we cannot get rid of him if we want. What happens when the royal line dies out?
If he cannot rule by his will then what is the point of him?
Checks and balances? haha go tell that to the people of Diego Garcia!
Sounds like bolloks to me.
It seems worse because we cannot get rid of him if we want. What happens when the royal line dies out?
If he cannot rule by his will then what is the point of him?
Checks and balances? haha go tell that to the people of Diego Garcia!
Sounds like bolloks to me.
1) And what if the monarch is incompetent?
2) And? Does a sense of tradition make him a better ruler?
3) Come on, we're talking about administrating a nation, not tourism.
4) And if that rock is the laughing stock or most hated, it will not change until death, while a President is always recycled based off what the people want, not what a few think is good for them.
5) Hahaha, not even close.
6) Explain how a king is more diplomatically able then a President.
I don't understand why you would like to have a government where one person can take away your rights in the blink of an eye.
2) And? Does a sense of tradition make him a better ruler?
3) Come on, we're talking about administrating a nation, not tourism.
4) And if that rock is the laughing stock or most hated, it will not change until death, while a President is always recycled based off what the people want, not what a few think is good for them.
5) Hahaha, not even close.
6) Explain how a king is more diplomatically able then a President.
Originally Posted by :
Yes, a constitutional monarchy. This does not mean the monarch has to be toothless, simply that the monarch does not have absolute rule. An ideal balance can be reached.
Then you should have no problem with many European countries current administrations.Yes, a constitutional monarchy. This does not mean the monarch has to be toothless, simply that the monarch does not have absolute rule. An ideal balance can be reached.
I don't understand why you would like to have a government where one person can take away your rights in the blink of an eye.
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars:
Yes, a constitutional monarchy. This does not mean the monarch has to be toothless, simply that the monarch does not have absolute rule. An ideal balance can be reached.
1) A monarch has been trained from birth to do the job. He has more training than a President.
2) A monarch brings a sense of tradition with him or her.
3) Tourist money.
4) There is a solid rock that represents your country, and does not change. Look at Thailand.
5) A monarch is non-partisan.
6) It is a diplomatic route made solid by mutual respect and diplomatic relations. See #5.
A monarch also does not mean more cost to the state.
Anyhow, everyone keeps whining about how a constitutional monarchy isn't democratic. A constitutional monarchy is as democratic as the constitution makes it - no more, no less.
1) A politician has been learning since birth about how society works. He has a a good understanding of his nation.Yes, a constitutional monarchy. This does not mean the monarch has to be toothless, simply that the monarch does not have absolute rule. An ideal balance can be reached.
1) A monarch has been trained from birth to do the job. He has more training than a President.
2) A monarch brings a sense of tradition with him or her.
3) Tourist money.
4) There is a solid rock that represents your country, and does not change. Look at Thailand.
5) A monarch is non-partisan.
6) It is a diplomatic route made solid by mutual respect and diplomatic relations. See #5.
A monarch also does not mean more cost to the state.
Anyhow, everyone keeps whining about how a constitutional monarchy isn't democratic. A constitutional monarchy is as democratic as the constitution makes it - no more, no less.
2) An elected leader brings a sense of social inclusion and cohesion with him or her.
3)Tourist money "You know I really like Paris but I've always felt it lacks a Royal Family"
4) There is a solid oak hat represents your country, and grows with time. Look at France.
5) Bopa doubts Monarchs can be non-partisan in a modern world, full of smart and wealthy men. Bopa can get rid of his lected leader.
6)Bopa does not udrstand this point, Bopa confused.
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