Rifle vs. Muskets

[fenir]

CBR,

Now I don't know why you think he was a "Sunday shooter" He was a gun maker who spent years perfecting the rifle, did numerous tests and wrote good advice to soldiers because he knew his rifle.

Anyone that has not had to use a rifle in combat is a sunday shooter. A sunday shooter is a person that can shoot all they like. But that experiance does not translate to direct ability in combat.
A combat solider marries their weapon. You learn to estimate range, understand the effect upon the bullet in wind, and different tempetures.
You learn more than you know about anything in the world. As often joked. "more than your own wife".
Soliders in that period, relied upon them, as their life did. And their livelyhood. So it would be true to say they where in many cases experts. It is and was a normal course of action to teach estimation range. Espeically Army, Artillery, and rifles. The royal Navy had esitmation for centuries and got it right. Why do you try and doubt the Army?

I mean really, it is so simple to judge the distance to shoot a rabbit. ~410 Meters is roughly my greatest range in hitting a rabbit, 1 shot, 1 kill. That is range esitmation, everytime. ANd on open iron sights. Mind you was magnum Ammuntion for my .22
CBR, you seem to not understand what is involved in firing a rifle, espeically in the elements. If you have used a weapon in the elements, have you never esitmate a range and got it right?

Msser Baker never had military traning, espeically not the high standard attested to the rifles.

The Rifles also had 4 levels of Marksmanship.

He writes he sometimes struck the target at 4-500 yards so where does your 5-600 yards comment come from? And this is still at a shooting range where he knew the range of the target.

From his own admission, and the admission of the rilfe is shooting those distances, as they are descirbed.

NOTE: was supposed to be 400 to 500 yards, typo on my part.

Most people that have used a rifle over a number of years, or trained in it's use, can esitmate distance very well. And the rifles where taught to do so. Same as we are today. I was taught orginally by my father to estimate range. Myself and my brothers would have our own little rifle competitions. And later members of the rifle club.

When Ezekiel Baker advised soldiers to learn to judge ranges within 25 yards it makes perfect sense as that would enable a soldier to place torso hits within 150-250 yards. And yes I'm sure a good shot could kill at 300 yards but it is still 500 yards less of the modern day myth of 800 yards.

ANd only 200 Yards short of Many confirmed 600 yard shoot kills. In many differrent places, by many different people.

And the reason for E. Baker's comment, was to help in the understanding of learning the range.
Practise makes perfect.

Whatever our thoughts on the 800 yards, we have conirmed evidence of 600 yards, by many used and many witnessed.
Including the Confirmation of the opposing side.
SO is the last 200 yards truely impossible? As you are saying? I personally believe nothing is impossible, something sare jsut a little harder than others.

Their is certainly no evidence to refute it. ANd their is evidence to say that others are 200 yards short of this target.

I fail to see what the second paragraph is supposed to show? The British army had Enfield Minié rifles at that point. Sedgwick was IIRC shot by a Whitworth sniper rifle. It has nothing to do with the Baker Rifle. Also note that the Russians are in column formation which is a much deeper target than a line and thereby reducing the problem with narrow danger space.

And cavalry line up in a sense is acolumn as well. Otherwise you have no depth. The russians lined in column. And where they in close form, or loose? A column does not mean they are packed together like sardines.
As you yourself said, 1%.

The British army had Enfield Minié rifles at that point

IN the crimean war? Yes, they did, in very limited numbers. The baker still out numbered them.

Edward Costello is indeed one of the sources describing the shot but he was not there nor does Costello say anything about what range it was. He is actually the one telling us of the courage of Plunket as he says Plunket advanced 100 yards before taking the shot.

This is true, but he served with Plunett, and was friends with him, and served with the men of the coy, that had also seen the action. Surely, A long yarn would have been counted?
Hardly lacks crediability.
And from further reading, it seems plunkett was certainly held in the highest regard by the officers of the rifles, as attested by their providing money from their own pocket to get him a buiral. And that his former commanding officer, took his death quite hard, when informed by plunketts wife.



Olender, but we are having a good debate.
Sincerely

fenir