Rights of the illegal immigrant

[The Stranger]

According to Amnesty International the Netherlands violate the rights of the illegal immigrant in the way they deal with illegal immigrants.

*They usually lock up illegal immigrants immediatly, while it is supposed to be an ultimate remedy if everything else fails.
*The places where they are locked up in are often far worse than prison cells and the duration for which the illegal immigrants are locked up far exceeds that of most other countries (100 days vs a common 45-30 days).
*The medical care and legal protection are far under the standard. Complaints from illegal immigrants about abusive guards are barely looked into, lawyers more and more decline to defend an illegal immigrant because the state has decreased the funding.
*Many illegal immigrants (including people on hunger strike) are locked up in isolation cells and this is against article 13 of the human rights treaty: forbidding inhumane and humiliating treatment.
*Amnesty also states that many vulnarable people are locked up, including children, victims of torture and human smuggle, pregnant women (an incident took place where are pregnant woman was send to the hospital in chains to give birth to her child), sick and elderly people.

some other "facts" include:

*yearly the dutch taxpayer pays 92,7 million euros for the dealing of this "problem". According to amnesty with the use of alternatives such as a bail or a notification obligation, about 70 million euros could be saved


http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2686/...ugt-niet.dhtml

[Strike For The South]

Links or your asteriks are meaningless

[Skullheadhq]

Evil lefties lock up and mistreat illegal immigrants, I bet it's the PvdA again.

[gaelic cowboy]

I wouldn't take heed of any links anyway what are Amnesty gonna say that they treat them ok so lets close our Dutch affiliate to concentrate on Burma and the like.

Amnesty has lost it's way in the last few years there are still plenty people in prison in Russia, Burma, China and North Korea thats what they should see as there core competency.

[The Stranger]

Links or your asteriks are meaningless

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2686/...ugt-niet.dhtml

its dutch though...

[rory_20_uk]

I wouldn't take heed of any links anyway what are Amnesty gonna say that they treat them ok so lets close our Dutch affiliate to concentrate on Burma and the like.

Amnesty has lost it's way in the last few years there are still plenty people in prison in Russia, Burma, China and North Korea thats what they should see as there core competency.

I agree. The massive influx of illegal immigrants to the West shows that all in all the benefits are worth the risks - else why not seek asylum in a neighbouring country like one is supposed to do, unstead of crossing continents to try to get the best deal?

[al Roumi]

I agree. The massive influx of illegal immigrants to the West shows that all in all the benefits are worth the risks - else why not seek asylum in a neighbouring country like one is supposed to do, unstead of crossing continents to try to get the best deal?

Why wouldn't one seek the best possible outcome from what has got to be an appaling thing to deal with? Especially when the "neighbouring country" might be already rammed with other refugees, all to quick to repatriate, incapable of helping you or in league with the people who you are fleeing from. People come to the west seeking asylum because of the liberty we proudly sound off about espousing.

On a seperate note, amnesty shouldn't be (but often is) put in the same phrase as migration. They are most definitley not the same thing.

[rory_20_uk]

A popular route is through most of Europe. Look at all the "asylum seekers" trying to leave france as things are better here in the UK for them. Fleeing terror or shopping around for the best deal for their future. Doing that they're clearly economic migrants.

Merely as we have liberty there was nothing saying that we're open for everyone to pile in. Most of these countries wanted independence. They've got it. Then they can enjoy all the fruits that independence has brought them.

[The Stranger]

ok fine... than withdraw all european operating companies from african, south american and asian soil and sea. evict all foreigners from these places. see how long europe will last -_-

do all you want to try and stop it, but the high days of fortress europe are gone. share or lose.

[Skullheadhq]

ok fine... than withdraw all european operating companies from african, south american and asian soil and sea. evict all foreigners from these places. see how long europe will last -_-

do all you want to try and stop it, but the high days of fortress europe are gone. share or lose.

We should build Normandy-like fortresses at the mediterrean to keep 'em out.

[gaelic cowboy]

On a seperate note, amnesty shouldn't be (but often is) put in the same phrase as migration. They are most definitley not the same thing.

A quick perusal of the Irish Amnesty website lately shows they think the "Prisoner of Conscience" thing is old hat after the fall of Berlin wall etc. It's all stuff about mental health and various social rights whatever they are???

Amnesty is spreading themselves too thin in an effort to supposedly remain relevant this is flim flam, there are still plenty people in jails across the world in whatever dictatorship you care to mention.

Refugee rights if you believe in protecting them should be under another organisations remit, dilution of the Amnesty brand helps neither mental health in Ireland nor people in North Korean jails

Oh sure they still release the odd report on such an such a fella in some awful place but they have lost there way and instead of saying brilliant we succeded in country X let us close up here and tackle country Y they find new things to be angry about.

[Crazed Rabbit]

ok fine... than withdraw all european operating companies from african, south american and asian soil and sea. evict all foreigners from these places. see how long europe will last -_-

do all you want to try and stop it, but the high days of fortress europe are gone. share or lose.

Do you think all the people living in those African, S American and Asian countries would want that?

CR

[Beskar]

Afterall, it is how those countries are getting the money.

[Fragony]

The treatment of illegal immigrants is bad, prisoners are better of, but it's a capacity-problem it's simply impossible to do better. Stop comming here, better for them, better for us.

[Skullheadhq]

The treatment of illegal immigrants is bad, prisoners are better of, but it's a capacity-problem it's simply impossible to do better. Stop comming here, better for them, better for us.

QFT

[The Stranger]

Do you think all the people living in those African, S American and Asian countries would want that?

CR

no i dont believe that. but none of the people living in europe would want that either if they knew how drastic their lives would change.


no more exotic fish, no more rice, no more coffee, no more tea, no more exotic herbs, no more chocolate, no more cheap clothing, no more toys except those from china and america, no more kebab (i think here fragony will start to show regrets), no more gold, no more oil, no more diamonds etc etc etc.

im just saying that if you say that it is their responisbility to clean up the mess than you should pull out all together and stop the blackmail of internationals and their violating of treaties and quotas.

and yes probably the entire world will collapse and change, but if i had to bet id put my money on the so called 3rd world countries, they will survive it much better than the "old and the new world"

[The Stranger]

Afterall, it is how those countries are getting the money.

. it is how european and american and nowadays mostly chinese internationals are getting their money, and ofcourse the officials who are corrupt. and you can say yeh... all those african officials are corrupt and thats why its their own mess, but all those internationals are corrupts as well... not that it makes any difference because it is not about the officals or the internationals but about the people.

[Fragony]

. it is how european and american and nowadays mostly chinese internationals are getting their money, and ofcourse the officials who are corrupt. and you can say yeh... all those african officials are corrupt and thats why its their own mess, but all those internationals are corrupts as well... not that it makes any difference because it is not about the officals or the internationals but about the people.

China is the best thing that ever happened to the Africans. http://www.dambisamoyo.com/

[The Stranger]

China is the best thing that ever happened to the Africans. http://www.dambisamoyo.com/

that link doesnt really make much clear. but i take it that you have read the book.

however exploitation is still exploitation and perhaps the chinese form is a better one since they dont have the intention or the urge to occupy and expand (not yet, if ever). i should read the book perhaps to gain a better insight since it is a relatively new course (though china has been meddling in africas affairs for decades now, it hasnt done so for long as a capitalist country)

[The Stranger]

Most of these countries wanted independence. They've got it. Then they can enjoy all the fruits that independence has brought them.

btw

i hear this argument all the time, but it is only applied to africa. Why not the yugoslavian countries? they are helped out. America didnt leave europe to die after they helped get them independence and no one thinks it is weird, And i think the world would explode if Tibet would be left to rebuild itself without any help after china moves out (ofcourse this isnt likely to happen but still).

But ye... the world benefits from a stability in all those places, america needed a strong europe to trade with, europe needed a stable yugoslavian region, but africa can be most profited from when it is chaotic, because god forbid would there ever rise an economic and military powerhouse that would unite and pacify the continent... (ofcourse this isnt likely to happen but still, that doesnt mean we cant help to make sure it will never happen???)

also if you think that the african independecies were a euro-african conflict than you are naive and wrong, it was more a conflict between america and russia/china. the africans might have fought and bled for their independence, the type of independence they would get was decided by those 2 camps. and if one camp would win than the other camp would kill the african leader who was aided by the other camp.

[Fragony]

that link doesnt really make much clear. but i take it that you have read the book.

however exploitation is still exploitation and perhaps the chinese form is a better one since they dont have the intention or the urge to occupy and expand (not yet, if ever). i should read the book perhaps to gain a better insight since it is a relatively new course (though china has been meddling in africas affairs for decades now, it hasnt done so for long as a capitalist country)

She is a bit of a personal hero of mine, she thinks that Africans *gasp* don't need us and development-aid is counterproductive. It's an excellent book with steamroller logic.

[The Stranger]

She is a bit of a personal hero of mine, she thinks that Africans *gasp* don't need us and development-aid is counterproductive. It's an excellent book with steamroller logic.

i think i would agree. africa doesnt need europe in the way most people think africa needs europe. im inclined to say that europe needs africa more. ofcourse this is only true in a capitalist sense.

[Fragony]

i think i would agree. africa doesnt need europe in the way most people think africa needs europe. im inclined to say that europe needs africa more. ofcourse this is only true in a capitalist sense.

We could benefit from eachother in the best capitalistic way. Aid is the kiss of death. We should stop dumping our surplus there and stop protecting our own markets.

[Strike For The South]

no more exotic fish, no more rice, no more coffee, no more tea, no more exotic herbs, no more chocolate, no more cheap clothing, no more toys except those from china and america, no more kebab (i think here fragony will start to show regrets), no more gold, no more oil, no more diamonds etc etc etc.

"

lULZ, jokes on you homie I can just go the store and buy those things!

KICK THEM OUT KICK THEM OUT KICK THEM OUT

[The Stranger]

lULZ, jokes on you homie I can just go the store and buy those things!

KICK THEM OUT KICK THEM OUT KICK THEM OUT

no sorry, because where do you think those things come from? yes... not texas my friend... and since everyone is gonna be autarcic you can just live of your texas barbeque and get all fat and die of obesity at age of 25.

[Strike For The South]

no sorry, because where do you think those things come from? yes... not texas my friend... and since everyone is gonna be autarcic you can just live of your texas barbeque and get all fat and die of obesity at age of 25.

Chances of that happening are slim. Pops didnt have his first heart attack till 38

I credit good genes

[The Stranger]

Chances of that happening are slim. Pops didnt have his first heart attack till 38

I credit good genes

you are one of the lucky few my friend, the lucky few