Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Concluded]

[Ironside]

Mwaahaahaa, our numbers are legio... And that was unexpected.

So Jooray, what parts of the Dark one creating puppets out of the dark jedi did you leave out yesterday?

[Nightbringer]

thats a very pretty emerald light saber, renata(?). maybe sasaki. but i hope my own green one assures you that i am not a sith.
my vote for greyblades had very little to do with his post about ironside, and much more to do with suddenly seeing him become active the day after a new sith was likely recruited.

as for today.
vote: diana abnoba
she has indeed been very lurky this game, and according to others this is characteristic of her being mafia, but i dont know personally. i would appreciate knowing if there is any more reason to vote her than just inactivity.

and can we please stop attacking jooray now.

[Seon]

Vote: Diana Abnoba Things have not changed since yesterday.

By the way, how many kill attempts last night can we attribute to Sith/dark one?

[God Emperor]

imo this bandwagon is silly and is growing way too quickly. Iirc she was scanned as having used an ability (?) , which she did not explain what was, else it's about her inactivity. Just two days ago she did not even vote. Those who participated in the zelda mafia at TWC knows that her inactivity there was very similar to the inactivity she shows in this game.
People may ofc vote for her , but we are on day 15. Plenty of stuff in the game thread to go back and look at.

Autolycus is a person I have checked, and his posts are nothing but bandwagons and 'ay ay great leaders' x 3 times. He did not vote day 12 apparently, and imo, that's about the only thing that speaks in his favour. Might just as well show what it is I am thinking of.

'Our leaders' posts:

Cecil's points seem to have been answered. Our leaders who have joined the force seem inclined to leave Jooray in power, so unvote, vote: Diamondeye.

Alright, Fearless Dead Leader, unvote, vote:Frozen In Ice

I shall follow Master pever's guidance. Unvote, Vote:Sigurd

then there is a post like this which I don't know what to make of

The last large game I was in, we didn't kill Diana Abnoba, and I regretted it. She has been awfully quiet. vote:Diana Abnoba.

I guess that would make the zelda game(?)... There Diana was Innocent and you were mafia. You didn't kill her, and that cost you your mafia victory . I don't exactly understand why you wish to use that in this game

Diana Abnoba has still not given a satisfactory defense. Vote: Diana Abnoba

This post is just... She didn't show up yesterday durring her bandwagon and the thread is closed durring the night phase. There is hardly anything on her, and she as obviously not had the chance to defend herself, unless you think she avoids this thread on purpose?

Basically this is just your mafia style imo. You follow the leads of others and else you just stay quiet to avoid detection. I don't like your playing style in this game and for now I will vote for you, but I will ofc keep searching the thread , which I would encourage everybody to do

Vote: Autolycus

[ArpeggiateTHIS]

It's lemming time - Vote: Diana Abnoba.

[Nightbringer]

imo this bandwagon is silly and is growing way too quickly. Iirc she was scanned as having used an ability (?) , which she did not explain what was, else it's about her inactivity. Just two days ago she did not even vote. Those who participated in the zelda mafia at TWC knows that her inactivity there was very similar to the inactivity she shows in this game.
People may ofc vote for her , but we are on day 15. Plenty of stuff in the game thread to go back and look at.

Autolycus is a person I have checked, and his posts are nothing but bandwagons and 'ay ay great leaders' x 3 times. He did not vote day 12 apparently, and imo, that's about the only thing that speaks in his favour. Might just as well show what it is I am thinking of.

'Our leaders' posts:


then there is a post like this which I don't know what to make of


I guess that would make the zelda game(?)... There Diana was Innocent and you were mafia. You didn't kill her, and that cost you your mafia victory . I don't exactly understand why you wish to use that in this game



This post is just... She didn't show up yesterday durring her bandwagon and the thread is closed durring the night phase. There is hardly anything on her, and she as obviously not had the chance to defend herself, unless you think she avoids this thread on purpose?

Basically this is just your mafia style imo. You follow the leads of others and else you just stay quiet to avoid detection. I don't like your playing style in this game and for now I will vote for you, but I will ofc keep searching the thread , which I would encourage everybody to do

Vote: Autolycus

Honestly, this makes a lot more sense than anything I have seen on Diana Abnoba so far, he certainly does seem to be very deliberately stating his pro township, as well as hiding in popular bandwagons.

so unless something convinces me otherwise, unvote, vote:autolycus

[Chaotix]

I think at this point it is time to reopen the tie/duel question. Something like four out of the past five lynches have failed because of Force Breath. Duels will bypass Force Breath... but at the same time may end in a tie as well, as we have seen with Ignoramus and Joooray.

Actually, this still doesn't seem like a great idea as I am typing it. Basically, a duel is going to remove Force Breath from the equation, but at the same time it's doubtful a Sith is going to lose to a Jedi unless said Jedi's name is Joooray. At the very least, though, we will know that the person is a Sith if that happens, whereas we have no idea with a normal lynch + Force Breath. Both pros and cons. Just a thought.

Vote: autolycus for now, as I'd like there to be multiple options for the round to develop into instead of a runaway bandwagon with no discussion.

[TinCow]

Vote: autolycus

A decent case worth exploring.

[autolycus]

Basically this is just your mafia style imo. You follow the leads of others and else you just stay quiet to avoid detection. I don't like your playing style in this game and for now I will vote for you, but I will ofc keep searching the thread , which I would encourage everybody to do

Vote: Autolycus

If by my Mafia Style, you mean my style for many large games regardless of my affiliation, yes. See Lylat Wars and the Shadow Fort for examples of my play style when innocent and Zelda on TWCenter for my style when neutral and then scum. I have been quiet in this game, but no more so than in other games. I started out as an Initiate, so I tried to stay out of the public eye early so I didn't get killed. The comment about my regretting not killing Diana Abnoba last game was intended as an attempt at humor. I will be kicking up my analysis in the next few days, but until then, following the opinions of the only known innocents seems like my best policy.

[Joooray]

First things first, thank you very much for protecting me, Greyblades. Especially after I doubted you during the day. I'm very sorry you died and I'll do anything that it won't be in vain. Please, if you got any thought about suspicious people, say so, we need the help of anybody, especially of those confirmed not part of a threat against us.

It is very good to see so many people surviving attacks last night, good choices in defences, keep it up.
Still, last night was quite frustrating for me. Not only does it seem like I was once again attacked by vigs. I don't know why people think they should judge me on their own, when the majority of the town seems to trust me at this point. And I'm doing my best to earn this trust, the Froce Ghosts are my witnesses.
One thing we have to consider at this point though, is there might be people who's personal goal is to hold my position and that's why they attack me. But that's just a thought.
However additional to the attack, I was also blocked, which made me pretty much a lame duck last night. If this was done by a townie, I'd appreciate if it wouldn't happen again, otherwise I won't be able to help much. I'll take the necessary precautions though.

In regard of Diana, one thing that people voting her have to be aware of, is that she is a Jedi Master, I checked the write-ups and it was announced after Day 11. This of course doesn't prove anything, but still even if she is inactive during the day, she is active during the night and might be helpful there. But I'd very much like to hear from her, because I do think we should follow up on lynches after people survived via Force Breath. We should however take the chance to review the case against her, which seems rather thin in my personal opinion. But then again, there is little to go with in her case.

I won't be voting at this point, as I'd prefer it if the day wouldn't end in a few hours already as the phase would have been awfully short this way and I think we need to some time to talk. It doesn't seem like that should be a problem though.

[Choxorn]

Is "She didn't tell us she had force breath" a good reason to vote for Diana?

[God Emperor]

I think at this point it is time to reopen the tie/duel question. Something like four out of the past five lynches have failed because of Force Breath. Duels will bypass Force Breath... but at the same time may end in a tie as well, as we have seen with Ignoramus and Joooray.

Actually, this still doesn't seem like a great idea as I am typing it. Basically, a duel is going to remove Force Breath from the equation, but at the same time it's doubtful a Sith is going to lose to a Jedi unless said Jedi's name is Joooray. At the very least, though, we will know that the person is a Sith if that happens, whereas we have no idea with a normal lynch + Force Breath. Both pros and cons. Just a thought.

I have been thinking about the same thing, and you are right. Duels main purpose, imo, is to negate force breath.. as duels most likely will end in sith advantage it should only rarely be used.

If by my Mafia Style, you mean my style for many large games regardless of my affiliation, yes. See Lylat Wars and the Shadow Fort for examples of my play style when innocent and Zelda on TWCenter for my style when neutral and then scum. I have been quiet in this game, but no more so than in other games. I started out as an Initiate, so I tried to stay out of the public eye early so I didn't get killed. The comment about my regretting not killing Diana Abnoba last game was intended as an attempt at humor. I will be kicking up my analysis in the next few days, but until then, following the opinions of the only known innocents seems like my best policy.

I am sorry but I can't go back reading lylat wars and shadow fort; would simply take too much time. The reason why your inactivity struck me as a little odd is because I think the last games I have seen with you, you have become more active, and this game seems like a downgrade of your activity. It may be because it's a large game, I can't say, but my best suggestion is that you don't wait "a few days" before starting to analyze the game. Day 15 means that we are in one of the last phases of this game, and we can't go about just joining bandwagons at impulse..

One thing we have to consider at this point though, is there might be people who's personal goal is to hold my position and that's why they attack me. But that's just a thought.
However additional to the attack, I was also blocked, which made me pretty much a lame duck last night. If this was done by a townie, I'd appreciate if it wouldn't happen again, otherwise I won't be able to help much. I'll take the necessary precautions though.

I don't know where you get this from. At least I haven't seen/heard anything about personal objectives so far.

If you have been roleblocked by a townie, then I would like to second what you are saying. Having the grandmaster roleblocked, even though he is a dark jedi, is foolish.

Is "She didn't tell us she had force breath" a good reason to vote for Diana?

Normally yes, but she has not said anything. So that argument won't work against Diana.

[Renata]

I'd like to vote:Nightbringer.

Please reference his shallow vote against Grayblades yesterday, among with a few other things from earlier that I'll drag up tomorrow if I have time and no one else has done it first.

[a completely inoffensive name]

No disrespect to whoever got attacked, but someone with a gold lightsabre is pretty badass. I mean, it's ******* gold.

[Chaotix]

No disrespect to whoever got attacked, but someone with a gold lightsabre is pretty badass. I mean, it's ******* gold.

Have you made a serious post once this entire game? If you're mafia, my hat's off to you.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Have you made a serious post once this entire game? If you're mafia, my hat's off to you.

If I'm mafia, I'm going to be sending some angry PM's at the end of this game, because no one besides ATPG has once talked to me in private.

EDIT: I did actually make a serious post once. Then people told me to stick with making silly posts. At first I was like:


But then after making some more silly posts, I was like:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

vote:autolycus

The only way my rage at force breath can be contained is if we don't lynch the people twice, and then they end up having been town and it turned out force breath was a good thing.

If I was sith I would have been tempted to recruit acin.

[a completely inoffensive name]

If I was sith I would have been tempted to recruit acin.

Yeah, now I am getting all this flak, and they never even talked to me once!

[naut]

Vote: Chaotix

There's a chain missing from his posts, like he's started at A gone to B and then to C elsewhere, but in his posts he simply goes from A to C. What are you hiding?

[Ignoramus]

I'd say autolycus is as good a case as any.

Vote: autolycus

[Csargo]

Vote: Nightbringer

I remember, this one time, he tried to get me lynched. That's not cool at all. I'd cut him with my lightsaber but it's malfunctioning right now and well it is a big hassel. Nightbringer is also a pretty scummy name imo. That's pretty much it I'll see you guys and gals later.

[wideyedwanderer]

Joooray, has there been any evidence of personal goals in this game? Because I'm pretty sure I don't have one.

There is something strange with autolycus. In zelda he was anti-town and took effort to cover his traces without making it look like he was covering his traces. Here, he seems to not care if it looks like he's acting scummy, which may be a clever WIFOM, since he's too smart a player to be making these mistakes.

And yes, the case on Diana is weak. She's a scum candidate because of her inactivity, and her only defense was "You guys don't know how to read me, therefore you are foolish to lynch me." (paraphrasing of course.) But right now there doesn't seem to be any better candidates, although I'm fine with lynching auto.

[Nightbringer]

I'd like to vote:Nightbringer.

Please reference his shallow vote against Grayblades yesterday, among with a few other things from earlier that I'll drag up tomorrow if I have time and no one else has done it first.

i assume you mean this post

okay, first off,
unvote:diana abnoba, unvote:jooray
my votes seem to have gotten messed up by not unvoting.

diamondeye is simply not coming across as scummy to me, but if some1 can do an analysis of him that convinces me otherwise im game for that.
jooray simply does not seem like a threat at this point and could prove useful to the town
sasaki's defence makes sense to me

so that leaves...
vote:greyblades
i believe he is the latest sith apprentice. he ahs just had a jump in activity since the death of ironside, suggesting a new moe interesting role, plus his posts come across as trying very hard to look innocent, i simply cant believe he didnt know ironside was dead when he appears to know what is going on for the most part, and his other posts just stink of scum to me. i dont think he is the master, but lynching the apprentice still helps till we can pinpoint the grand master scum.

my vote was not shallow, at least imo. the part about him not knowing ironside was daed was just one part of my vote, and that combined with the activity jump and what I saw as scummy behavior is frankly more than what you are claiming is a case against me, in fact, this is about as much of a case as their is on anybody at this time.

also, since I think it is likely that you were the one that attacked me last night, you should KNOW I am not a sith because I do not have a red lightsaber.

I am also not a dark jedi but I see no way to prove this to you except that I have not killed anyone, and as such would not have been corrupted.

If I seem to be overly concerned with defending myself from the accusations of one person it is merely because I do not want to be stabbed by another jedi during the next night phase, as was tried last night.

[pevergreen]

For lack of better targets for vigilantes tonight, I'd take Pyscho and ACIN.

[Death is yonder]

Full post is in spoilers, but for convenience of some especially in a game with this many posts and this big, there is a tldr version at the bottom which sums up what I felt needed be said.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

also, since I think it is likely that you were the one that attacked me last night, you should KNOW I am not a sith because I do not have a red lightsaber.

Now how is this fact, you claim to have been attacked last night, but past evidence tells us for sure that the sith have another lightsaber.

Why are you ignoring the fact that the sith have lightsabers that are not red? Are you claiming that the sith have not attacked for how many countless numbers of nights? I am certain that no red lightsaber has popped up for a very long while already.

And even if Renata attacked you last night, (May not be true, I died too early to figure out if so or not) how would she know which attack popped up in the write up, especially since pizza only refers to the attackers by "cloaked figure" or something similar.

You could say that she would know via the stance she chose, but admittedly, Soresu and Makashi are extremely commonly used stances, unless pizza tells the attacker the role name of those they attacked, I see little to indicate that Renata knows the "facts" that you have mentioned.

Which leads to the next question, why are you trying to intentionally discredit Renata, especially seeing as she is accusing you, and you have merely responded with facts that are false?

I am also not a dark jedi but I see no way to prove this to you except that I have not killed anyone, and as such would not have been corrupted.

If I seem to be overly concerned with defending myself from the accusations of one person it is merely because I do not want to be stabbed by another jedi during the next night phase, as was tried last night.

Your post seems merely to have proceeded from:

1. Self Defense
2. Counter accusation of your accuser
3. Intentional discrediting of your accuser who would have brought about a more substantial case if she had the time [if I might add with the explanation of the above, eyebrow raising accusations]
4. Reinforcement of your "innocence" if that might be the case
5. Self defense of your behavior

If I seem to be overly concerned with defending myself from the accusations of one person it is merely because I do not want to be stabbed by another jedi during the next night phase, as was tried last night.

The next question is, how do you know that Renata is a jedi? First you claim that you think Renata attacked you, then you say that she should have known several details which from my dead padawan's point of view sounds very unlikely, then you somehow know that Renata is innocent and in your own words, "a jedi" who tried to stab you during the night. I smell perfect information syndrome or something similar.

I will concur with the view point expressed by several still living, your behavior is very odd Nightbringer. Not to mention that you raised several big "analysis" that indicated the "supposed guilt" of the accused parties such as Csargo, but you very quickly changed your opinion, contrary to what such a case indicated, that you were fairly sure of their guilt, and hence decided to make a case on them to get them lynched.

Instead, you cited interesting reasons such as "not knowing that he was not a serious player", ignoring a simple obstruction to your generalization that it is not entirely impossible that several players would not be serious as it was still early-mid game.

tl;dr version:
Nightbringer raises a very odd counter accusation to his accuser, Renata, as if trying to discredit her, his claims of things that she should supposedly "know" are very queer and eye brow raising. Following this, he defends himself and his behavior, passing an excuse for it to try and save himself from reprisal if any for his actions, as if he was trying to stay alive very hard.

Following that, he somehow claims with certainty that Renata is a jedi. Not to mention, earlier in the game, he made large cases of supposed "analysis" on several people, a venture that as a townie would have taken suspicion in the first place, before dedicating time to even make that case that early in the game (early - mid game stage). Yet he easily brushed aside this "suspicion" of his once it was clear that town approval was not forthcoming and the votes weren't piling on.

This easy discarding of what should have been strong suspicions, especially for a townie to have come out that early in the game with such cases, is very suspicious and should be looked at closely. Coupled with his odd behavior in the present, it leads me to believe that there is some merit in suspicion towards him.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hmm, can't say I wasn't expecting to die. Don't suppose you need anyone replaces Pizza?

Not at this time, and almost everyone else who is dead is ahead of you in line for replacements.


Tally:


Diana Abnoba: (6) pevergreen, Autolycus, Jarema, Wideyedwanderer, Seon, ArpeggiateTHIS
Autolycus: (6) God Emperor, Nightbringer, Chaotix, Tincow, Sasaki Kojiro, Ignoramus

Nightbringer: (2) Renata, Csargo

Chaotix: (1) Psychonaut

[Nightbringer]

Full post is in spoilers, but for convenience of some especially in a game with this many posts and this big, there is a tldr version at the bottom which sums up what I felt needed be said.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Now how is this fact, you claim to have been attacked last night, but past evidence tells us for sure that the sith have another lightsaber.

Why are you ignoring the fact that the sith have lightsabers that are not red? Are you claiming that the sith have not attacked for how many countless numbers of nights? I am certain that no red lightsaber has popped up for a very long while already.

And even if Renata attacked you last night, (May not be true, I died too early to figure out if so or not) how would she know which attack popped up in the write up, especially since pizza only refers to the attackers by "cloaked figure" or something similar.

You could say that she would know via the stance she chose, but admittedly, Soresu and Makashi are extremely commonly used stances, unless pizza tells the attacker the role name of those they attacked, I see little to indicate that Renata knows the "facts" that you have mentioned.

Which leads to the next question, why are you trying to intentionally discredit Renata, especially seeing as she is accusing you, and you have merely responded with facts that are false?



Your post seems merely to have proceeded from:

1. Self Defense
2. Counter accusation of your accuser
3. Intentional discrediting of your accuser who would have brought about a more substantial case if she had the time [if I might add with the explanation of the above, eyebrow raising accusations]
4. Reinforcement of your "innocence" if that might be the case
5. Self defense of your behavior



The next question is, how do you know that Renata is a jedi? First you claim that you think Renata attacked you, then you say that she should have known several details which from my dead padawan's point of view sounds very unlikely, then you somehow know that Renata is innocent and in your own words, "a jedi" who tried to stab you during the night. I smell perfect information syndrome or something similar.

I will concur with the view point expressed by several still living, your behavior is very odd Nightbringer. Not to mention that you raised several big "analysis" that indicated the "supposed guilt" of the accused parties such as Csargo, but you very quickly changed your opinion, contrary to what such a case indicated, that you were fairly sure of their guilt, and hence decided to make a case on them to get them lynched.

Instead, you cited interesting reasons such as "not knowing that he was not a serious player", ignoring a simple obstruction to your generalization that it is not entirely impossible that several players would not be serious as it was still early-mid game.

tl;dr version:
Nightbringer raises a very odd counter accusation to his accuser, Renata, as if trying to discredit her, his claims of things that she should supposedly "know" are very queer and eye brow raising. Following this, he defends himself and his behavior, passing an excuse for it to try and save himself from reprisal if any for his actions, as if he was trying to stay alive very hard.

Following that, he somehow claims with certainty that Renata is a jedi. Not to mention, earlier in the game, he made large cases of supposed "analysis" on several people, a venture that as a townie would have taken suspicion in the first place, before dedicating time to even make that case that early in the game (early - mid game stage). Yet he easily brushed aside this "suspicion" of his once it was clear that town approval was not forthcoming and the votes weren't piling on.

This easy discarding of what should have been strong suspicions, especially for a townie to have come out that early in the game with such cases, is very suspicious and should be looked at closely. Coupled with his odd behavior in the present, it leads me to believe that there is some merit in suspicion towards him.

Okay, let me try to explain.

I'll respond to your 5 points.
1. self defense.
of course i am trying to defend myself. i dont want to die, i have just finally started getting forms etc... and i dont want to be out of this fun game. self defense is not a mark of being scum.

2. Counter accusation of your accuser
Where have I done this? You are blaming me of both claiming to know that renata is a jedi, and trying to accuse her. I have not accused her of anything in any of my posts, except that she tried to attack me. My reasons for thinking this are that right at the end of the last day phase she seemed to become very certain of my guilt.

3. Intentional discrediting of your accuser who would have brought about a more substantial case if she had the time [if I might add with the explanation of the above, eyebrow raising accusations]
I do not see how I have done this, unless saying that I am not a sith is an attempt to discredit her.

4. Reinforcement of your "innocence" if that might be the case
Well, yes, I am innocent, of course I want to try to get that point across.

5. Self defense of your behavior
of course, because I don't want to die

Ignoring that Sith have lightsabers that are not red.
This is perhaps an error on my part, I had been recalling a post ATPG made to the effect that the only way to know a person is a sith is if you see a red lightsaber. My thinking was that they may be able to disguise one, but a red saber would be more likely when they are attacked. Also, there have been many sith kills without a Lightsaber, but I cannot think of any kills being made with a Green Lightsaber. This was my main point here. I am Gith Raney and I was shown to have a green lightsaber, which has not been used in any kills I can remember. I also did not display any force powers that have been used to kill people. This is why I sounded so certain that the writeup should prove my innocence.

Renata would know that she attacked me (if she did), because she would recognize the own color of her ligthsaber, which was not used in any other night actions.

How do I know Renata is a Jedi? I don't, but i simply do not think she is a Sith. Her posts have not led me to believe she is so.

As for the whole Csargo thing, it was based on a misinterpretation of a players way of behaving. While it certainly is still possible that Csargo is a sith, the case I attempted to make simply made little sense to me after I was told that Csargo's standard behavior was making silly posts.
I also changed my mind about WeW, because I was presented with very strong evidence to the contrary.

I do not think that one has to have strong convictions in order to make a case against someone in these games. A case should be made when you see things that add up together in a suspicious way. This contributes to actual examination of player activity, rather than just blindly bandwagoning. It is also a fun part of the game to me.

You will find that I have acted very similar to how I am now acting in past games while i was innocent. I admit I do try to explain all my actions when questioned, and I wish everyone else did as well, but i did not make an "excuse." I quoted my original post.

[Beefy187]

Rather then lynching autolycus and going "oh force breath" again, I would like to see someone lynched.
But thats just my personal opinion.

One of the scanners scanned Sasaki Kojiro last night.
Result was he is susceptible to dark side and there may be dark side in him already.
However, apparently usual scanners are not powerful enough to scan the Dark one (Or the Sith lord?) so Sasaki is apprentice at best.
Correct me if i'm wrong

[Beefy187]

Also
Vote: Diana

[pevergreen]

However, apparently usual scanners are not powerful enough to scan the Dark one (Or the Sith lord?) so Sasaki is apprentice at best.
Correct me if i'm wrong

Sith: not sure, dark one, not at all.

Scans are useless.