What happened to the progressive-left majority in Britain?

[Beskar]

We don't have a left-wing mainstream party in Britain and there is misrepresentation of what is 'Left-wing'.

For a start, "Benefits" is not necessarily a left-wing issue. Socialism is about fairer wages, so the more work you do, the more money you get. People sitting around on their backsides in Council Estates as Baby Factories is not Socialism.

Then there is "big spend" as it is put, which again, doesn't actually mean it is "Left-wing". I was advocating on this forum before the whole conservative craze to get rid of the debt. I have also spoken of long-term investment and alternative strategies for handling infrastructure. Then as HoreTore brilliantly pointed out in another thread "In America, Healthcare is seen as a profit making industry, but in the UK, it is seen as a drain on public resources".

I could go on.

[Furunculus]

We don't have a left-wing mainstream party in Britain and there is misrepresentation of what is 'Left-wing'.

Q: if there is a problem with what is consdiered to be the left-wing, is it precisely because we don't have 'true' progressive-left parties anymore?

[rory_20_uk]

interestingly, conservatives would also advocate fir ways for the work that one does. They would also be against Baby Factories and scroungers.

You appear equally happy for conservatives to be all fixated on removing the debt in one cohort yet subdivide the alternative from the "big spend". Conservatives would also be pro investing on infrastructure via a variety of funding methods.

[Beskar]

interestingly, conservatives would also advocate fir ways for the work that one does. They would also be against Baby Factories and scroungers.

You appear equally happy for conservatives to be all fixated on removing the debt in one cohort yet subdivide the alternative from the "big spend". Conservatives would also be pro investing on infrastructure via a variety of funding methods.

This is why I don't mind the Conservative Party in the UK in comparison to many of the others in other countries, like America, where both Democrats and Republicans are to the Right of our David Cameron. (Something I have said before)

I am not a loyalist to any of the parties, I am non-partisan, so if the Conservative party does things I approve of, I have no qualms in approving. Remember when they were cutting down the benefits, and I created a topic saying I approved of it?

Q: if there is a problem with what is consdiered to be the left-wing, is it precisely because we don't have 'true' progressive-left parties anymore?

That could be the case. There are left-wing people, but some of them are what I would call 'traditional' left-wing, this mainly applies to the Trade Union crowd. These usually use outdated arguments and concepts, and would probably increase benefits "just 'cause" without any real logic behind that sort of action.

[Furunculus]

That could be the case. There are left-wing people, but some of them are what I would call 'traditional' left-wing, this mainly applies to the Trade Union crowd. These usually use outdated arguments and concepts, and would probably increase benefits "just 'cause" without any real logic behind that sort of action.

hmmm, if the traditional 'left' is occupied by a dieing breed of trade-unionists using outdated arguments and concepts, then perhaps the OP question is invalid; the argument has moved beyond what was traditionally recognised as left/right politics.

i accept the premise, it seems quite reasonable, but it leads to a further question:

Q: Why does what once represented right-wing politics seem to be thriving, when that which represented left-wing politics seem to be struggling?

our political system is what it is, and one 'half' of the self-described equation seems to be struggling more than its 'opposite' in representing the will of the people.............

[HoreTore]

Blair happened.

It was his New Labour that destroyed the european social democracy. The only reason we still have social democrats in power here is because our Labour thankfully left the New Labour way in 2005.

There is no evil in the world we cannot blame on Tony Blair and his New Labour nonsense. When a socialist party starts calling for lower taxes and privatization, something is very, very wrong.

[Furunculus]

but blair did what he did because he wanted to get elected.

new-labour had its clause 4 moment because the public weren't going to accept the loonier elements of labour ideology.

likewise the tories lost their way when they enacted loony authoritarian laws such as section 28.

all parties need to evolve to meet the expectations of the people they claim to represent.

why isn't the progressive-left evolving fast enough, or is this merely a temporary blip, in which case what will change to create progressive-left 2.0?

[Devastatin Dave]

[HoreTore]

but blair did what he did because he wanted to get elected.

new-labour had its clause 4 moment because the public weren't going to accept the loonier elements of labour ideology.

likewise the tories lost their way when they enacted loony authoritarian laws such as section 28.

all parties need to evolve to meet the expectations of the people they claim to represent.

why isn't the progressive-left evolving fast enough, or is this merely a temporary blip, in which case what will change to create progressive-left 2.0?

Yes, in the short term he got elected. Look at the state of those who followed his policies now to see the long term effect.

If you want tax cut, why vote for the minimal tax cuts given by Labour, when you could vote for the heavier tax cuts given by the conservatives? Makes no sense.

Also, there is of course the voters who do not want neither tax cuts nor privatization. The industrial worker, those who have relied on Labour for stability and security. They have seen Labour as their party.

But then Tony Blair came along, with his wave of privatization. The market was best left alone, according to him. Thus, those industrial workers no longer felt protected, they no longer thought Labour would save them if their industry got into trouble. Industrial buildings where demolished, and where there once was work for a thousand people, there's now an apartment building for the rich, which the working class can only dream of seeing the inside of. That's when the working class lost its faith in New Labour.

[Beskar]

Q: Why does what once represented right-wing politics seem to be thriving, when that which represented left-wing politics seem to be struggling?

I don't have the full answer, but from experience in speaking to people, there are many things issues in the social-sphere which are exerting themselves more strongly than other issues, so it creates a perception of a 'right-wing' shift which might not even be there (or debatable).

There has been an increase in the "Non-Working Classes", and people who are not a member of them, feel cheated. So there is popular support in tackling the parasites of society. This is further reinforced by stories in the media where they have large screen televisions, iphones, and other materialistic possessions. Which party is most likely to deal with this issue? Conservatives.

There has been uncontrolled immigration, from everywhere, and this has lead to a situation where in many towns and cities (for example, Luton), a game called "Spot the White person" has sprung up. Obviously which party is deemed to tackle this issue the most? Conservatives.

Etc Etc

This doesn't mean other issues aren't as important. There is still public support for Public services, such as education and NHS, which are deemed 'Key Policies which Labour got right'. Labours introduction of the minimum wage is also another landmark example of the good things they did.

However, the downside to this is, when you have something going well, it is no longer an 'issue'. So when an issue is solved, no one is actively concerned or complaining about it.

[Furunculus]

This doesn't mean other issues aren't as important. There is still public support for Public services, such as education and NHS, which are deemed 'Key Policies which Labour got right'. Labours introduction of the minimum wage is also another landmark example of the good things they did.

However, the downside to this is, when you have something going well, it is no longer an 'issue'. So when an issue is solved, no one is actively concerned or complaining about it.

accepting the broad trends above, two points stand out:

as rory said above, the right vocally supports public services too, it's just a case of how much.

this comes back to the evolution question, and the position above: "what is labour for once the money is gone" where does the progressive left go next?

[Devastatin Dave]

this comes back to the evolution question, and the position above: "what is labour for once the money is gone" where does the progressive left go next?

They blame the right for holding on and hiding the wealth.

[Beskar]

this comes back to the evolution question, and the position above: "what is labour for once the money is gone" where does the progressive left go next?

I apologise, could you specify the question?

For example, I am reading this question in multiple ways, and I am uncertain of which you mean.

Is it:
"Which party should the progressive left go next?"
"What does the progressive left do in times of limited funds?"
or another question.

Also, in the last election, I would argue that the Liberal democrats were the "Progressive Left" party.