This Means War

[Yoyoma1910]

You don't understand.

The prospect of US food being imposed on Europe IS the apocalyse to me. It IS the end of the world. American food already is a hellish concoction of madmen, to be forcefed that is the end of European civilisation.

See it is all a joke to Americans. Just some corn. To me, it is the beginning and end of everything, a nuclear missile aimed at the heart of my existence. I shall fight it to the bitter end, at least six weeks. I shall smash up a McDonalds in protest.

I went to France for Christmas and made my wife's family a delicious chicken, sausage, and shrimp gumbo, which I cooked for 7 hours. They all ate it up like it was a drug, and asked for the recipe, even the traditionally picky ones such as my niece and my brother-in-law's non pork eating girlfriend.


In late 2008, as Bush was stepping out, they decided to raise the tariff on Roquefort from 100 to 300 percent. There's your war.

[Louis VI the Fat]

i'd make a glib comment about CAP, but it might be too close to the mark! :D

And how much does the USA export anyway. Not in my supermarket, all veggies come from the Eurozone and North Africa/Israel

What good fortune that the two of you posted these two posts just aftern one another.

There is a connection between them. Europe's long project of maintaining food independence preserves our sovereignity. We are not dependent on the Soviet Union / Russia for grain, nor dependent on north America, or Argentina and Brazil etc.

The CAP means that European agriculture is and has been preserved even in areas where, and in times when, it would be more profitable to just import food. With food prices now surpassing those of the 2008 crisis again, we should count ourselves lucky our supermarkets can supply themselves to a large extent with European food.

That is why one needs an agricultural policy. Why should this policy be pan-European? This is too further increase national sovereignity. For example, densely populated Britain is at liberty to convert large areas of its countryside into suburbs to increase the living conditions of its fast growing population, while still maintaing its agricultural independence through subsidising the preservation of agriculture in Ireland and France.


It's all so beautiful and we all gain so much.

[Strike For The South]

Not surprised the US has been beholden to corporate interests for a while

That's why we're fat and fighting 2 wars

[gaelic cowboy]

And how much does the USA export anyway. Not in my supermarket, all veggies come from the Eurozone and North Africa/Israel

do you eat meat Frag or consume any soya, what about cotton or sugar.

There is basically loads of stuff in your kitchen cupboard or your bedroom closet that is GMO based today

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Not surprised the US has been beholden to corporate interests for a while

That's why we're fat and fighting 2 wars

Are you conducting seances with Smedley Butler? I have heard this theme before....


Though to be fair it has a deal of truth to it, and that truth is why we can't have Smith's impartial "invisible hand."

[Greyblades]

That's why we're fat and fighting 2 wars

Well one war and one manhunt. And that one war isnt over only because ending it and withdrawing would cause the occupied country to collapse.

[rory_20_uk]

What good fortune that the two of you posted these two posts just aftern one another.

There is a connection between them. Europe's long project of maintaining food independence preserves our sovereignity. We are not dependent on the Soviet Union / Russia for grain, nor dependent on north America, or Argentina and Brazil etc.

The CAP means that European agriculture is and has been preserved even in areas where, and in times when, it would be more profitable to just import food. With food prices now surpassing those of the 2008 crisis again, we should count ourselves lucky our supermarkets can supply themselves to a large extent with European food.

That is why one needs an agricultural policy. Why should this policy be pan-European? This is too further increase national sovereignity. For example, densely populated Britain is at liberty to convert large areas of its countryside into suburbs to increase the living conditions of its fast growing population, while still maintaing its agricultural independence through subsidising the preservation of agriculture in Ireland and France.


It's all so beautiful and we all gain so much.

CAP is increasinly spent on preserving the countryside, not on preserving food production. Hence then end of the milk lake / butter mountain etc etc.

It is used for such things as keeping alive the archaic and inefficient practices in many countries such as France, which if this were for food sovereignty would be pushing ahead for increasing efficiencies.

You're just trying to justify a subsidy to France and aren't going to look to closely at what this entails.

[Fragony]

do you eat meat Frag or consume any soya, what about cotton or sugar.

There is basically loads of stuff in your kitchen cupboard or your bedroom closet that is GMO based today

You keep vegetables in your bedroom closet?

[rory_20_uk]

Cotton shirts / cotton sheets...

[Louis VI the Fat]

CAP is increasinly spent on preserving the countryside, not on preserving food production. Hence then end of the milk lake / butter mountain etc etc.

It is used for such things as keeping alive the archaic and inefficient practices in many countries such as France, which if this were for food sovereignty would be pushing ahead for increasing efficiencies.

You're just trying to justify a subsidy to France and aren't going to look to closely at what this entails.

Quit whinging and just pay up you stingy Brit.

Cotton shirts / cotton sheets...

My money's on some courgettes...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Quit whinging and just pay up you stingy Brit.

Sure, you going to buy our superior beef now?

[gaelic cowboy]

You keep vegetables in your bedroom closet?

GMO does not just mean Frankenveg

[Tellos Athenaios]

do you eat meat Frag or consume any soya, what about cotton or sugar.

There is basically loads of stuff in your kitchen cupboard or your bedroom closet that is GMO based today

Soya: Argentine, Brazilian, Asian. Meat: New Zealand, African, Argentine, European. Cotton: African. Sugar: African, European.

To be sure, we do import USA food stuffs. But GMO stuff is really not something people are queuing to buy, does come with various extra hoops that food processing industry must jump through to the point that there's very little market for GMO at the moment. Might be a Dutch peculiarity.

[gaelic cowboy]

Soya: Argentine, Brazilian, Asian. Meat: New Zealand, African, Argentine, European. Cotton: African. Sugar: African, European.

To be sure, we do import USA food stuffs. But GMO stuff is really not something people are queuing to buy, does come with various extra hoops that food processing industry must jump through to the point that there's very little market for GMO at the moment. Might be a Dutch peculiarity.

You are already eating and wearing GMO products my good man, and if you include ingredients or other inputs then GMO has a very big and unseen effect.

[Louis VI the Fat]

MUHAHAHA et HA

LOL@teh Frenchie

Just read this. Guess who is the undisputed world leader in industrial espionage, more than Russia and China combined? But you already knew that didn't you...

Thank you for the link.

I have at last discovered what you refer to.


It turns out that the allegation of France being 'the undisputed world leader in industrial espionage' is based on a single head of a German firm venting. His firm is in tight competition with a French one for a new government order.
Not a scientific article. Not investigative reporting. Not a source in an intelligence agency. But a single guy venting.
He is bidding for a German government contract, and during the negotiations for this contract, he publicy vents that his French-led competition is a worse threat to Germany than the Chinese and Russians combined, and 'when are German politicians going to make a stand?'

Pfffttt....

Well done. So when Prince Andrew claims that the Americans can't even point out anything on a map, as he did, this is presented as 'Proof at last! Guess who are the world's undisputed most ignorant people?'
And when Strike in the Frontroom claims nobody can eat as much as a Texan, this is presented on other games websites as 'It's offical! Guess who are the world leader in calorie intake?'

[HoreTore]

do you eat meat Frag or consume any soya, what about cotton or sugar.

There is basically loads of stuff in your kitchen cupboard or your bedroom closet that is GMO based today

My meat is all-Norwegian, my soya is from Dutchiestan, my sugar is from Denmark and my cotton is from Egypt.

I very much doubt its any different in Fragistan. Lots of American brands(coca cola, macdonalds, etc), not much actually grown in the US. You have a trade deficit, remember, which means that you import much more than you export....

[Louis VI the Fat]

For actual industrial espionage, instead of some bollox non-story, google 'Renault + management + espionage'. Several members at strategic positions have been selling crucial information to an as of yet undisclosed third party. It rocks the French business world. We might have to rethinbk our anti-espionage strategy, include private business more into national anti-espionage.

Business needs to be open, transparant and free if one wishes a dynamic business culture. But what if third parties systematically steals all your information, blatantly infringes on all your patents and copyrights, and spies on a truly humongous scale? What if this third party is the world's largest country, where there is little distinction between private and public interest? Your competitor is the state of China, fighting you by undermining your business?



Which ties this nicely to the subject of this thread: What exactly is the differnce between the Chinese state strongarming others on behalf of its businesses, and Washington strongarming others on behalf on Monsanto and other US companies?

For with capitalism or an open business environment none of this has got anything to do.

[gaelic cowboy]

My meat is all-Norwegian, my soya is from Dutchiestan, my sugar is from Denmark and my cotton is from Egypt.

I very much doubt its any different in Fragistan. Lots of American brands(coca cola, macdonalds, etc), not much actually grown in the US. You have a trade deficit, remember, which means that you import much more than you export....

Your allready using GMO products you just cant tell easily Horetore, words like Organic food or GM free mean absolutely nothing in agriculture.

It does not matter that your meat is Norweigian the meal fed to the animal was probably using a GMO ingredient.

93% of all the worlds soya is GMO and so therefore impossible to say it is GMO free.

Cotton is more likely from India which is somewhere around 80-90% GMO based but even Eygpt produces GMO cotton nowadays.

In short USA wants GMO food relaxation really because they control the major producers of GMO products and seeds

[HoreTore]

You're forgetting that you're talking to a farmer

Haven't seen any GM animal food around here, and I don't know of any available animal foods based on it.

And I'm not concerned about consuming Gm-food, I'm only concerned about the bio-diversity issues.

(and the one piece of clothing made out of cotton I'm wearing now(my shirt) is made from egyptian cotton, so no, its definitely not indian )

[gaelic cowboy]

You're forgetting that you're talking to a farmer

Haven't seen any GM animal food around here, and I don't know of any available animal foods based on it.

And I'm not concerned about consuming Gm-food, I'm only concerned about the bio-diversity issues.

Your forgetting your talking to an actual Irish Beef farmer here

The rules on GM ingredients are fuzzy to say the least, chances are the meal has a GM ingredient somewhere along the chain.

I'm not really concerned with eating GM products either but I am distrustful of any product that is roundup ready

[HoreTore]

Allright, I've seen your raise.

Just skimmed through the information of the powerfoods we've given to pigs and horses, and I can't see any mention of GM there...

Info unfortunately in Norwegian

Its developed at UMB though, where my ex goes, and I know for a fact that they don't use any GM stuff in their research, unless they have started doing so after 2008(which I doubt).

[Greyblades]

Powerfoods? I dont know about farming but you'd think at least something would have been done to something thats seriously called powerfood.

[HoreTore]

Powerfoods? I dont know about farming but you'd think at least something would have been done to something thats seriously called powerfood.

You'll have to excuse my English... I don't really know the exact english term, I just guessed at "powerfood" because its a direct translation of the Norwegian term, "kraftfor".

Baasically, the food given to animals are divided into two groups: "grovfor", which is hay, and "kraftfor", which is minerals, vitamins, proteins and such.

[gaelic cowboy]

Allright, I've seen your raise.

Just skimmed through the information of the powerfoods we've given to pigs and horses, and I can't see any mention of GM there...

Info unfortunately in Norwegian

Its developed at UMB though, where my ex goes, and I know for a fact that they don't use any GM stuff in their research, unless they have started doing so after 2008(which I doubt).

They don't need to research GM crops at UMB if the feed contains any soy or maize or any of the 16 GMO ingredients allowed in the EU then the pig ate a GM meal.

[gaelic cowboy]

You'll have to excuse my English... I don't really know the exact english term, I just guessed at "powerfood" because its a direct translation of the Norwegian term, "kraftfor".

Baasically, the food given to animals are divided into two groups: "grovfor", which is hay, and "kraftfor", which is minerals, vitamins, proteins and such.

Generally we call it meal here.

[Subotan]

You don't understand.

The prospect of US food being imposed on Europe IS the apocalyse to me. It IS the end of the world. American food already is a hellish concoction of madmen, to be forcefed that is the end of European civilisation.

See it is all a joke to Americans. Just some corn. To me, it is the beginning and end of everything, a nuclear missile aimed at the heart of my existence. I shall fight it to the bitter end, at least six weeks. I shall smash up a McDonalds in protest.

Surely if the French were as cultured as you say they are, Louis, then even if the tariffs were lifted, the French would still spurn US Style food...right?

What good fortune that the two of you posted these two posts just aftern one another.

There is a connection between them. Europe's long project of maintaining food independence preserves our sovereignity. We are not dependent on the Soviet Union / Russia for grain, nor dependent on north America, or Argentina and Brazil etc.

The CAP means that European agriculture is and has been preserved even in areas where, and in times when, it would be more profitable to just import food. With food prices now surpassing those of the 2008 crisis again, we should count ourselves lucky our supermarkets can supply themselves to a large extent with European food.

That is why one needs an agricultural policy. Why should this policy be pan-European? This is too further increase national sovereignity. For example, densely populated Britain is at liberty to convert large areas of its countryside into suburbs to increase the living conditions of its fast growing population, while still maintaing its agricultural independence through subsidising the preservation of agriculture in Ireland and France.


It's all so beautiful and we all gain so much.

We're already dependant on Russia for oil and gas and look how much that buggers up Europe. Preserving agriculture in Europe is essential....

CAP is increasinly spent on preserving the countryside, not on preserving food production. Hence then end of the milk lake / butter mountain etc etc.

It is used for such things as keeping alive the archaic and inefficient practices in many countries such as France, which if this were for food sovereignty would be pushing ahead for increasing efficiencies.

You're just trying to justify a subsidy to France and aren't going to look to closely at what this entails.

...but this also applies. Pétain was wrong, as the earth does lie, at least today, in that age-old rural lifestyles simply cannot deliver the living standards of modern society without huge government support. THAT SAID - 75% of CAP subsidies go to agribusiness corporations, who should surely be able to produce cheap food themselves without the need for subsidy.

[Veho Nex]

We are the united states corporate mafia. You buy our goods, yes? You don't and we make you buy them at the tip of a blade and the tilt of a hat.

[HoreTore]

They don't need to research GM crops at UMB if the feed contains any soy or maize or any of the 16 GMO ingredients allowed in the EU then the pig ate a GM meal.

Probably, though only marginally.

[gaelic cowboy]

Surely if the French were as cultured as you say they are, Louis, then even if the tariffs were lifted, the French would still spurn US Style food...right?

This is all really about making European agri business source more ingredients from GMO crops, it is not about exporting GMO food from USA although some would inevitably be exported. The real killer app is that GMO crops can be patented and the farmer is made dependent on them because Monsanto controls the production of the seed.

[HoreTore]

Yeah, that the farmer is not allowed to keep a portion of the crop for seeding next year is probably my biggest problem with genetically modified stuff.

Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me.